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    Default Honda New Pakistan Project

    Hey Guys
    Goodnews, My friend Riyan, work for Honda. He told me they are doing research for high CC bike with low maintenance for Pakistan youths, he told me Pakistan is more about after sales service and maintenance. They are launching a bike with technology & looks is very similar to Peugeot XPS, and the project is very similar to Hero Impulse of India. Pakistan is yet not ready 250 CC, as it cost goes high around 1.6 Lac, this bike will be around 120 CC and affordable. Bike has high shockupsers, and well griped tyre. The major problem Atlas Honda face in Pakistan is import of technology, unlike India & SriLanka, most of spare parts and technology had to be import from countries, and most of them are from China. It take 60 days to import spare parts from China via Sea Route and cost goes higher and higher. But Atlast Honda predicts change in next decade till 2020. Bike will be launch very soon, in 2013, as Ravi Motors, the local motor firm also give them high competition, this project will help Atlast Honda to maintain top position.

    Hope you guys will get good news soon.
    Honda New Pakistan Project -1091162Honda New Pakistan Project -1091163


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    Quote Originally Posted by amjad635 View Post
    inshAllah Vicky bhai slowly trend is changing
    and i have pretty good hopes from AHl
    if 150cc is coming than i am expecting even if it is not the best
    but it would be something very adorable & very good
    I.A...
    Step by step they should phase out obsolete and introduce better bikes. 150, 200, 250... step by step

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    Quote Originally Posted by Automotorsport_Lover View Post
    Business, accounting and finance..

    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
    and...?

    how is that relevant, I don't know...

    what if I was a CA?
    or better yet, what if a PHD professor from London School agrees to my point of view...? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Automotorsport_Lover View Post
    I.A...
    Step by step they should phase out obsolete and introduce better bikes. 150, 200, 250... step by step

    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
    sir jee more cc is not better.

    if they introduce a higher cc bike you think they will make heavy bikes, where as they could just make a bigger 70/125 based on same era designs especially due to high design costs and expensive licenses for newer designs...they would simply buy a license to produce older generation models of higher cc IF higher cc was needed. But it isn't.

    What is needed is a new shape/design and more efficient engine, transmission and improved features.

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    Even if they just do this I would be Glad they really did... because they didnt in last few decades, untill now when China finally hijacked the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by BackToCivicFaiez View Post

    What is needed is a new shape/design and more efficient engine, transmission and improved features.
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/motorcycle-travel-diaries/277725-sober-riders-visit-khunjerab-adventurous-way-via-nori-pass

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    China surely has hijacked the market and for 2013 its;

    Unique UD70 Euro 2
    Unique UD100 new shape
    Super Power SP125 the complete package with self starter

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackToCivicFaiez View Post
    and...?

    how is that relevant, I don't know...

    what if I was a CA?
    or better yet, what if a PHD professor from London School agrees to my point of view...? lol
    None of the topics you are commenting about are your bits, leave it sir.
    Ap k samjhny ki Baat nai hay... ap behas karae ho bila wajah...

    Ap behas barae behas karae ho.
    Now just leave it..

    I know plenty about this stuff, I can't understand the purpose of ur debate.


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    @Automotorsport_Lover

    { i think we should focus on first to look what our bike industry is selling right now to us. and if current industry fail to dilever us good product at reasonable price than govt should reduce the import duties (jo kay mushkil hay) but not from india as we dont need things wrapped in attractive candy wrapper or andar say niklay dico makhan tafee . }






    I dont think India Product are bad- Our Product are high in quality & Innovation compare to Chinese Products, right now India Baja is fighting with Chinese Govt for Pulsar Copy right Issue.
    Chinese Copies of the Bajaj Pulsar..!! | Bike Chronicles of India.

    I should not say this, but most of Motor Bikes which you guys see as new launch, has been launch in India way back in 80s.

    I am not against, you or I dont want this forum to turn India v/s Pakistan, I, as a Student of Economic & Social Media is very much interested in Pakistan Market. It was prediction that after 6 years i.e 2018 this market will show Consumer Revolution which was happen in INDIA during 1996-1999, Consumer Revolution in other words Social Reforms are output of Political Stability and Economical Stability, where Demand Curve shift upwards, forcing government to open Economy Door. Opening the door of Economy, in simpler term allowing FDI more that 75%, also have two effect, The merit is Products, Services, and Competition improves by providing employment opportunity. Other side it hammer local Firms.

    Again my friend Can you define the Word "Market"?
    Market is not Population, Market is one important Factor of Mix its come in Two Ps of Marketing- Place(Product) & People(Product & Services). For Place, a firm look for Political Stability, Economical Stability & Legal Stability- Economical Stability is rise is per capita of Individual, mean constant in "Increasing Consumption Power"- For Pakistan figures are great. Demand - If demand curver is constantly shifting upwards, that means Market is ready for Star- and again figures are great in Pakistan-Eg Ravi, even other players are focusing on there cash cows, Ravi dare for Star. But here you my friend should understand a Local player broke the clutter, this was every government need, they want its local firm to develop and compete in Global economy. In India, Bajaj, Hero, TVS, LML etc are at par with globe market because government provide them reservation protection when they were at developing stage, and again their product quality is far better than China.

    You would question me that I am showing you India is better than Pakistan?

    No, India has lot of Iron ore mines & Coal Mines, which is backbone of all industry, Pakistan lack it, so development is more challenging in Pakistan than of India or China (I hate China >... anyways. Ravi have shown the growth, but economy need lot of local frims to grow, you should read more.

    Again for People -Market is Psycological need, that desire to buy and ability to buy, desire market is very high in Pakistan- this is nothing but Market Growth Prediction. This is main reason every Big Giants want to enter in Pakistan.

    And Government has to take each and every step very carefull, because FDI can cause Profit flow to foreign country making local Firms to die silence death.

    I hope you will not take my comments on ego, we should use this plaform to improve our IQs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by viken View Post
    @Automotorsport_Lover

    { i think we should focus on first to look what our bike industry is selling right now to us. and if current industry fail to dilever us good product at reasonable price than govt should reduce the import duties (jo kay mushkil hay) but not from india as we dont need things wrapped in attractive candy wrapper or andar say niklay dico makhan tafee . }






    I dont think India Product are bad- Our Product are high in quality & Innovation compare to Chinese Products, right now India Baja is fighting with Chinese Govt for Pulsar Copy right Issue.
    Chinese Copies of the Bajaj Pulsar..!! | Bike Chronicles of India.

    I should not say this, but most of Motor Bikes which you guys see as new launch, has been launch in India way back in 80s.

    I am not against, you or I dont want this forum to turn India v/s Pakistan, I, as a Student of Economic & Social Media is very much interested in Pakistan Market. It was prediction that after 6 years i.e 2018 this market will show Consumer Revolution which was happen in INDIA during 1996-1999, Consumer Revolution in other words Social Reforms are output of Political Stability and Economical Stability, where Demand Curve shift upwards, forcing government to open Economy Door. Opening the door of Economy, in simpler term allowing FDI more that 75%, also have two effect, The merit is Products, Services, and Competition improves by providing employment opportunity. Other side it hammer local Firms.

    Again my friend Can you define the Word "Market"?
    Market is not Population, Market is one important Factor of Mix its come in Two Ps of Marketing- Place(Product) & People(Product & Services). For Place, a firm look for Political Stability, Economical Stability & Legal Stability- Economical Stability is rise is per capita of Individual, mean constant in "Increasing Consumption Power"- For Pakistan figures are great. Demand - If demand curver is constantly shifting upwards, that means Market is ready for Star- and again figures are great in Pakistan-Eg Ravi, even other players are focusing on there cash cows, Ravi dare for Star. But here you my friend should understand a Local player broke the clutter, this was every government need, they want its local firm to develop and compete in Global economy. In India, Bajaj, Hero, TVS, LML etc are at par with globe market because government provide them reservation protection when they were at developing stage, and again their product quality is far better than China.

    You would question me that I am showing you India is better than Pakistan?

    No, India has lot of Iron ore mines & Coal Mines, which is backbone of all industry, Pakistan lack it, so development is more challenging in Pakistan than of India or China (I hate China >... anyways. Ravi have shown the growth, but economy need lot of local frims to grow, you should read more.

    Again for People -Market is Psycological need, that desire to buy and ability to buy, desire market is very high in Pakistan- this is nothing but Market Growth Prediction. This is main reason every Big Giants want to enter in Pakistan.

    And Government has to take each and every step very carefull, because FDI can cause Profit flow to foreign country making local Firms to die silence death.

    I hope you will not take my comments on ego, we should use this plaform to improve our IQs.
    And all of your points are valid and I have no objection. I'm always up for a mutually respectful and knowledgeable debate, I would be really happy.

    I never denied the barriers to entry or difficulties in sustaining improvements in our industry.

    I, and I guess everybody here understands these barriers such as power shortages, unstable economic policies.. who argues about that? Nobody!

    My point is only one:
    A. Atlas Honda earns billions of profit each year.
    B. Why does that profit is never reinvested and why the R&D is non existent?
    C. How difficult it supposedly is for Atlas? To get license of just one other "expired" and dumped engine design? I.e. 150cc at least.
    D. 2 valves, OHC or OHV carbureted engines are the most cheapest types of engines which world has to offer, these 250cc and below engines aren't even available in first world countries... only being sold in 2nd or 3rd world ones. For me these are expired products for manufacturers now(mostly made back in 70s and 80s and still selling), mostly their patents have already been sold to other manufacturers. (Many Chinese bikes are using such engines, these designs go viral subsequently)
    E. Ravi piaggio just did that, they paid for a nominal price to obtain engine design of piaggio's 125 that is selling hot in china too and a no. Of manufacturers have got the same engine design, is the same more difficult for Honda and Yamaha too??
    F. My brother BTCF said that bigger cc is not what's wanted, but performance is... for adding more power to a 125 cc you can't do much, even if you do it won't work wonders. Not until you increase compression by adding a 4 valves per cylinder design Or EFI would be an attraction.
    G. Increasing displacement is the simplest solution. As they say there's no alternative for displacement.
    H. Improving cosmetic features is the next thing desired, putting unbreakable plastic parts to bikes has equal or lower cost that metallic, chromed parts.
    I. Introducing self starters in the same/new engines by modifying them isn't a big deal which atlas can't handle... they should be taking these steps now.
    J. We are asking for gradual improvement in products, starting from cost effective changes and subsequently introducing efi bikes when the industry is mature enough.
    K. Atlas, dyl, pak Suzuki all have got ingredients to do that.
    They all already have got assembly lines and same can be ed to assemble (not higher tec) different engines... its not costly at all.
    L. Amongst all other imports, importing from China is the cheapest. And putting a larger bore, stroke engine isn't a big deal for these large manufacturers... already most of the parts come from China and paying the difference for sourcing a bigger piston and other components isn't going to be very high. They can easily manage production of a few thousand units of such bikes.


    That's all what we are talking ebt, I don't know an isme hawwa bnany wali knsi Baat hai?

    Self starts, discs and 150cc or 14-15 bhp engines is what we are looking forward to.


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    @viken : gulabi angrezi... (improve some grammar, just brotherly advice)

    But I agree with most of your points.

    Also, please note that FDI is not a bad thing if the government can fix an export quota for foreign firms.

    And as far as resources are concerned, Pakistan is not exactly thaaat under-resourced...The problem is that the resources we do have are not utilized fully, eg not enough hydro and nuclear power is produced.

    Apart from that, the way the power sector is structured is also very poor. There is a huge lack of planning.

    I don't know why you hate china, maybe that media part in your studies force you to hate china. But from economic point of view, there has been no other example of such a well planned economy of such a huge size. When they started their 1st 5year economic plan they had set their goal to beat USA (in terms of GDP) by 2020 (or maybe it was 2015, i dont remember exactly). Right now they are less than 5 years away from becoming the largest economy in the world according to latest estimates...
    Right now china is the biggest manufacturer of the world already(industrial sector in GDP).

    This kind of planning is not found in any "developed economy" in the world. Even most economists in the west are amazed by China's performance. I don't know why you hate it....

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    @auto : I never said increase performance, I said increase efficiency by introducing better technology...

    The only thing government can do here is set standards. That is the only logical thing to do. And if they do introduce quality standards and a proper auto law, that could possibly raise prices alot (QC costs alot, upto 5-10% of product cost can go into quality control depending on how strict the standards are).

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    and they say "no replacement for displacement".

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    ^ Agreed.

    China is a savior for our industry.
    With out china even 125 would cost too much, since we still donot have enough brains to manufacture everything in Pakistan neither enough energy sources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackToCivicFaiez View Post
    @auto : I never said increase performance, I said increase efficiency by introducing better technology...

    The only thing government can do here is set standards. That is the only logical thing to do. And if they do introduce quality standards and a proper auto law, that could possibly raise prices alot (QC costs alot, upto 5-10% of product cost can go into quality control depending on how strict the standards are).
    Yes i know that, but BTCF believe me abroad when the same brands operate they have to face much more fierce competition since there are dozens and dozens of brands.

    You know.. how it is in America, where auto dealers are dying to sell you a car!They are selling at very very low profit margins. Even the base models have got everything in them, all sorts of features that are still considered luxury here. Life is tougher for auto industry guys abroad.

    So even if govt. introduce strict standards, manufacturers can't complain. (Yes they do make a lot of noise, because they have got a lobby now. they show money to mr.90% and theres no law passed in the end) govt. also needs money only, they are not interested in welfare of people but only and only their own pockets. these manufacturers does need danda... if not by our govt. then we at least as consumers should be able to demand our right for improvements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BackToCivicFaiez View Post
    and they say "no replacement for displacement".
    Yes typing error, too many point to write in mind and typing on my small cell phone screen.

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    @ Automotorsport_Lover

    Q: A: Atlas Honda earns billions of profit each year.
    B. Why does that profit is never reinvested and why the R&D is non existent?
    No MNC invest to develop country, their main objective is profit, and this is why FDI rule was introduce. RAVI did not import anything from China, their 20% product is made in Pakistan 80% assembly is imported from Italy (no doubt it is outdated), (I am not 100% sure about it). Why should Honda invest in R&D, they want maximum profit margin in minimum cost- This is why it our duty to support local firm, duty in the sense competition pressure. And its consumer who decide which product to buy, if people go for Ravi, Honda will try to raise the bar, it is economics of competition. Honda is introducing above bike to compete Ravi.

    E. Ravi piaggio just did that, they paid for a nominal price to obtain engine design of piaggio's 125 that is selling hot in china too and a no. Of manufacturers have got the same engine design, is the same more difficult for Honda and Yamaha too??
    Ravi is in price competition because they assemble most of what they can inside country, If a country can manufactury everything for its own, the price will come down. Atlas Honda is importing the raw material, because as a MNC it is cheap for them, you can take it in this way, the outdated technology of one world is dump into another world to earn profit. But Pakistan needs more local Giants like Ravi.

    By the way, I like to introduce my Self, Viken from India, MBA in Economic from Symbiosis, Graduated in Social Science from Mumbai University. 2 Years world exp in Audi as an Consumer Researcher, Austria. 1 year work ex in Neilsen as Consumer Durable Strategic planner and right now working with Lowe and perusing my PHD in Economics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by viken View Post
    @ Automotorsport_Lover

    Q: A: Atlas Honda earns billions of profit each year.
    B. Why does that profit is never reinvested and why the R&D is non existent?
    No MNC invest to develop country, their main objective is profit, and this is why FDI rule was introduce. RAVI did not import anything from China, their 20% product is made in Pakistan 80% assembly is imported from Italy (no doubt it is outdated), (I am not 100% sure about it). Why should Honda invest in R&D, they want maximum profit margin in minimum cost- This is why it our duty to support local firm, duty in the sense competition pressure. And its consumer who decide which product to buy, if people go for Ravi, Honda will try to raise the bar, it is economics of competition. Honda is introducing above bike to compete Ravi.

    E. Ravi piaggio just did that, they paid for a nominal price to obtain engine design of piaggio's 125 that is selling hot in china too and a no. Of manufacturers have got the same engine design, is the same more difficult for Honda and Yamaha too??
    Ravi is in price competition because they assemble most of what they can inside country, If a country can manufactury everything for its own, the price will come down. Atlas Honda is importing the raw material, because as a MNC it is cheap for them, you can take it in this way, the outdated technology of one world is dump into another world to earn profit. But Pakistan needs more local Giants like Ravi.

    By the way, I like to introduce my Self, Viken from India, MBA in Economic from Symbiosis, Graduated in Social Science from Mumbai University. 2 Years world exp in Audi as an Consumer Researcher, Austria. 1 year work ex in Neilsen as Consumer Durable Strategic planner and right now working with Lowe and perusing my PHD in Economics.
    Ans bold part A:
    Atlas honda is not a multi national. (licensed to represent Honda Japan here, Like franchises)
    Its a national company, they just pay a fixed amount of money to Honda japan for each unit produced. Atlas is pretty much independent If they want they can ask from honda japan to provide them assistance in introducing new bikes and engines. right now they only have 2 engines running from past 30 Years!! and another 3rd one has been produced, which is just a bigger fatter version of the 70cc one.

    And B:
    In Pakistan local production costs too much brother, theres hell of load shedding and commercial electricity units are more expensive than domestic ones... thus local manufacturing is just a dream for now. Currently each business is adding $$$ to their expenses by adding fleets of generators to run their offices and factories. Some large companies have even invested to build their own power houses so that they get rid for these power shortages for once and for all. Also with no gas, most of teh industries are closing up and rolling their operations, shifting their plants to india or bangladesh... Hence China does cost cheaper here., here in Pakistan even things as simple as wires of bikes are chinese, handle grips are chinese and cheap too.
    China get you made ANYTHING, At ANY price you ask for.

    Thanks for sharing economics with me, I know at least this much of it already!

    And yes we does have have over 30 or more local maufacturers, but they also are here for profit. Not serious for earning good name in the industry... And If Ravi produces 80% of the products itself then I would be really surprised. Bdw Ravi is already an exception, they provide raw materials to other manufacturers too, I know that. But still i am pretty sure they are not making 80% of the components themselves, Im talking about specially engine parts.. not others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vickytulla View Post
    R1 where are you these days ?
    In Heaven
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  19. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackToCivicFaiez View Post
    @viken : gulabi angrezi... (improve some grammar, just brotherly advice)

    But I agree with most of your points.

    Also, please note that FDI is not a bad thing if the government can fix an export quota for foreign firms.

    And as far as resources are concerned, Pakistan is not exactly thaaat under-resourced...The problem is that the resources we do have are not utilized fully, eg not enough hydro and nuclear power is produced.

    Apart from that, the way the power sector is structured is also very poor. There is a huge lack of planning.

    I don't know why you hate china, maybe that media part in your studies force you to hate china. But from economic point of view, there has been no other example of such a well planned economy of such a huge size. When they started their 1st 5year economic plan they had set their goal to beat USA (in terms of GDP) by 2020 (or maybe it was 2015, i dont remember exactly). Right now they are less than 5 years away from becoming the largest economy in the world according to latest estimates...
    Right now china is the biggest manufacturer of the world already(industrial sector in GDP).

    This kind of planning is not found in any "developed economy" in the world. Even most economists in the west are amazed by China's performance. I don't know why you hate it....


    Come On dude, I am Indian, China is better than India, so I hate China, it is just an Patriotism inside me comeup sometimes. Ok joke apart yes Salute China and Respect them.

    Let put your question in such a way- “ Why resource in Pakistan are underutilize”

    First reason is Political instability, it is very important for any country to be Political Stable.

    Second is Lack of Technology to explore resources, if you study your country economics, they have lot unwanted pressure from Foreign countries; Pakistan is fighting against terrorism, again pressure in defense investment, in other term social stability. Pakistan overall income is now very low to invest in technology to explore resource. So why not to import technology? Never do that your resource is your asset hide, because if they form any foreign partnership, partner country (Which obliviously will be some European or UK or USA) have high bargaining power, they will laid down the rules which will more beneficial for them-Study case of Zimbabwe, Uganda, Congo, Niger, Mali, all these country did same mistake they thought their Diamond mines could be explore through foreign country partnership, but now poverty index is increasing day by day. So avoid foreign county partnership, It our resource, we will wait with patience, we will explore our resource, we don’t need help- best answers.

    Third is to make match with END (Need) and Scare (Resource)- your resource are scare and it will end , so every step about resource management should be taken with lot of precaution. In easy sentence work hard now, save every penny what you can, and then you will be reach and then laid down your rule on them to follow. Pakistan is now into these phase.

  20. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Automotorsport_Lover View Post
    Ans bold part A:
    Atlas honda is not a multi national.
    Its a national company, they just pay a fixed amount of money to Honda japan for each unit produced. Atlas is pretty much independent If they want they can ask from honda japan to provide them assistance in introducing new bikes and engines. right now they only have 2 engines running from past 30 Years!! and another 3rd one has been produced, which is just a bigger fatter version of the 70cc one.

    And B:
    In Pakistan local production costs too much brother, theres hell of load shedding and commercial electricity units are more expensive than domestic ones... thus local manufacturing is just a dream for now. Currently each business is adding $$$ to their expenses by adding fleets of generators to run their offices and factories. Some large companies have even invested to build their own power houses so that they get rid for these power shortages for once and for all. Also with no gas, most of teh industries are closing up and rolling their operations, shifting their plants to india or bangladesh... Hence China does cost cheaper here., here in Pakistan even things as simple as wires of bikes are chinese, handle grips are chinese and cheap too.
    China get you made ANYTHING, At ANY price you ask for.

    Thanks for sharing economics with me, I know at least this much of it already!

    And yes we does have have over 30 or more local maufacturers, but they also are here for profit. Not serious for earning good name in the industry... And If Ravi produces 80% of the products itself then I would be really surprised. Bdw Ravi is already an exception, they provide raw materials to other manufacturers too, I know that. But i am pretty sure they are not making 80% of the components themselves, Im talking about specially engine parts.. not others.

    I am from India, this what I know through my Economic books, I may wrong, I think you will know better about Pakistan than me. Well I will question above senario to My Professor . It hurts me when I just realize all my knowledge is not at par, I mean what I am learning is just a Fake.

  21. #100
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    ^^ Its not fake, but ground realities are always a little different from the books.
    Books are written by people too, not by God. so no need to be hurt! Cheer up

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