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Thread: Axle Work

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    Exclamation Axle Work

    Yesterday the axle broken from inner cv joint side car. so mechanic repaired the old axel from kerrati as iam not founding the new/kabli axle from where iam currently situated .....suggest me it is reliable or not or i should immediately change the whole axel with kabli car is spectra altered with 5afe engine some picture attached for reference...

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    Axle Work -1470816

    It seems that this is a hybrid axle. Looks to me that it has been made with one end suitable for the 5afe engine/gearbox and the other is suitable for the Kia Spectra. If I am right then you will not be able to find a similar axle. Also if I am right, then the reason for the axle breakage may be due to improper alignment of the two sections during welding or wrong length. Better solution would have been to manufacture a push fit bush into which both halves of the axles fit ensuring their alignment for the purpose of welding. In addition to that the bush, welding should be done in a manner to prevent heat stress build up. Such stresses cause the axle to bend as it cools off after welding and eventually fail after some use.

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    the machining required for that task is a monumental effort for a general machine shop in Pakistan. The easiest way out is to get a full shaft + outer CV for a spectra and then do all the work on the inner axle joint (not shaft)



    This failure and idiotic welding is my primary reason to recommend against "engine swap" - unless one can guarantee a cradle to grave project with 100% accuracy and replication later on. This sort of picture is the classic "fly by the seat of their pants" engine swaps that are peppered across the country.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    First thanks to both of you giving precious time the broken part can be seen in the pics mechanic who swap engine toke the spectra axle and did some work on the inner cv joint side by kerati to make suitable for 5afe now i can't understood what happen to this and please sir tell me now should i drive the vehicle with welded axle or not as if i take the axel of kia spectra the only option left to again welding or something else?

    Axle Work -1471067

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    Axle Work -1471068

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    Figure out a way to alter the axle with out involving cutting/welding of the axle shaft. The moment cutting/welding is done, you are setting yourself up for trouble. Any improperly welded shaft is prone to a "reversing stress" situation. That means the shaft undergoes repeated bending (although maybe very slight) as it turns when you are driving the car. To understand this phenomenon, take a steel wire and repeatedly bent it back and froth at the same point, the wire will break into two pieces. The higher the reversing stress, the shorter the life of the shaft.

    Beyond introducing you to the dangers of playing around with welded axles, I am not is a position to advise you as to which axle to use. At this point I would ask what made you ditch the Kia engine? My Kia is with its original engine with 178,000 km still running strong turning in 11km/l with a/c in the city (Maha Allah). Recently replaced its plugs (this being its third set) and it goes like a bullet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msabbasi View Post
    Figure out a way to alter the axle with out involving cutting/welding of the axle shaft. The moment cutting/welding is done, you are setting yourself up for trouble. Any improperly welded shaft is prone to a "reversing stress" situation. That means the shaft undergoes repeated bending (although maybe very slight) as it turns when you are driving the car. To understand this phenomenon, take a steel wire and repeatedly bent it back and froth at the same point, the wire will break into two pieces. The higher the reversing stress, the shorter the life of the shaft.

    Beyond introducing you to the dangers of playing around with welded axles, I am not is a position to advise you as to which axle to use. At this point I would ask what made you ditch the Kia engine? My Kia is with its original engine with 178,000 km still running strong turning in 11km/l with a/c in the city (Maha Allah). Recently replaced its plugs (this being its third set) and it goes like a bullet.
    bro, my liana's RHS axle has made my life miserable too. recently i replaced it with a kabli one. but again, the inner was welded. he said that 'rod choti parrti hai tou we need to weld it in baleno, khyber, liana'...but ye original lock wala liana ka axle he hai japani..
    what are the risks? what is 'alteration axle'?

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    Quote Originally Posted by abid110 View Post
    bro, my liana's RHS axle has made my life miserable too. recently i replaced it with a kabli one. but again, the inner was welded. he said that 'rod choti parrti hai tou we need to weld it in baleno, khyber, liana'...but ye original lock wala liana ka axle he hai japani..
    what are the risks? what is 'alteration axle'?
    I am not clear about something.... You have a Liana right? Have you replaced the engine/transmission of this Liana?? If the answer is "NO" then why the need to alter the axle? If "YES" then I have no solution. Welded axles will eventually fail over time. The duration of use before failure will depend on how accurate the weld is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msabbasi View Post
    I am not clear about something.... You have a Liana right? Have you replaced the engine/transmission of this Liana?? If the answer is "NO" then why the need to alter the axle? If "YES" then I have no solution. Welded axles will eventually fail over time. The duration of use before failure will depend on how accurate the weld is.
    bro, engine is same of liana...but, what i believe, the first owner replaced the original axles with an altered one (since actual are very expensive). so, that gave me real headache - both inner and outer is welded. i replaced another one right now and he said its just welded from inner side to make the shaft 'long' and axle is on 'lock' so no issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msabbasi View Post
    Figure out a way to alter the axle with out involving cutting/welding of the axle shaft. The moment cutting/welding is done, you are setting yourself up for trouble. Any improperly welded shaft is prone to a "reversing stress" situation. That means the shaft undergoes repeated bending (although maybe very slight) as it turns when you are driving the car. To understand this phenomenon, take a steel wire and repeatedly bent it back and froth at the same point, the wire will break into two pieces. The higher the reversing stress, the shorter the life of the shaft.

    Beyond introducing you to the dangers of playing around with welded axles, I am not is a position to advise you as to which axle to use. At this point I would ask what made you ditch the Kia engine? My Kia is with its original engine with 178,000 km still running strong turning in 11km/l with a/c in the city (Maha Allah). Recently replaced its plugs (this being its third set) and it goes like a bullet.
    i am unable to understand the 'bold' items, although it is very well written by you! i have seen almost all suspension walas to weld axles for all cars - that is very common, including in mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abid110 View Post
    bro, engine is same of liana...but, what i believe, the first owner replaced the original axles with an altered one (since actual are very expensive). so, that gave me real headache - both inner and outer is welded. i replaced another one right now and he said its just welded from inner side to make the shaft 'long' and axle is on 'lock' so no issue.
    My advice is to use "original parts" if you want to solve the problem on a permanent basis. The old saying goes: "menga roey aik bar ... sasta roey bar bar"

    The choice is yours

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    Quote Originally Posted by abid110 View Post
    i am unable to understand the 'bold' items, although it is very well written by you! i have seen almost all suspension walas to weld axles for all cars - that is very common, including in mine.
    Heh heh. Sure you have seen all axle wallas weld axles. But you did not ask the owners of there cars how long these axles last?

    With reference to the bold items, let me ask you these questions, After welding, was the welded shaft put on a lathe machine and checked with a dial gauge for trueness (the amount of bend in the shaft after welding)? If so how much run out was found and does the axle walla or lathe walla know how much run out is acceptable? Or before we even go to the lath machine, was the correct electrode used based on the metallurgy of the axle shaft? Was there a bevel of an included angle of 60 degrees in both shaft parts prior to welding? And then was post weld stress relieving done?

    There are a number of technical considerations in the business of axle welding. Two bits of shaft just can't be thrown together and welded. Which is why I go back to my original comment about your continuing headaches with the axles as long as you travel down this path of using welded axles. I hope I have answered your questions

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    Sent from my iPhone using PW Forums

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    Default Axle Work

    I changed the right axle of my liana, the rod is not welded from anywhere i.e the shaft is fully ok. Inner and outer axles are on lock. i.e not welded. Just a groove inside the inner axle got welded just to make it stuck to the shaft. What does this setting mean?




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    Quote Originally Posted by abid110 View Post
    I changed the right axle of my liana, the rod is not welded from anywhere i.e the shaft is fully ok. Inner and outer axles are on lock. i.e not welded. Just a groove inside the inner axle got welded just to make it stuck to the shaft. What does this setting mean?

    Sent from my iPhone using PW Forums
    This setting means that there is still something not right. Welding the axle even for preventing it from coming out is not right. Please understand this: In an original axle of any front wheel drive car there is NO WELDING involved whatsoever for locking or any other reason. The cv joints usually have a circlip to secure the joint to the shaft. THAT IS ALL. If your axle walla insists on welding the axle for whatever reason, please change him and go to a man who does quality work. Maybe another Pakwheeler can advise you of a good axle man.

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