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Thread: Liana missing on petrol. help required

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    Default Liana missing on petrol. help required

    I got a Lia 2007 lxi sports with after market cng. I bought it about an year ago. No problem since then. Just routine oil change and nothing else. About a month ago, I started experiencing that on petrol, on acceleration, it first dips and then starts accelerating. Yesterday when i started my car, it refused to take the paddle, started missing rigorously when I press the paddle and refused to move. Then after trying pressing the accelerator for 10 minutes, I managed to convert it to cng. The car was very much fine on cng. No problem at all. I drove to my mechanic and told him the whole story. He instantly said that it is the fuel pump problem. I asked him to check thoroughly. Then he detached the return petrol pipe and block the return petrol. As a result, the car became so smooth as it was on cng. Then he told that there might be a problem in the retun petrol vaccum. I said him good bye and told him to visit again. I was very much confused, what to do and what not.

    Today, in the morning I visited suzuki mini motors at Gulberg. After a check up of 5 minutes, they told that apparently there is no problem with pump or return petrol vaccum. But you have to spare some time, we will first check it's tappet. Repair if required. Then we will check it's coil. Then we will check it's sensors and injectors. And then we will check it's fuel pump and vaccum and then we will finally able to tell what the problem is. After hearing he whole story I was about to fell down. Said good buy to them and left for my office. On the way, I recieved a call from my friend who referred me to Suzuki ravi motors on bund road. The I went there for the checkup. The supervisor there, after hecking the car for about 2-3 min and listening to my whole story, told me that all of the previous diagnosis are wrong. There is nothing wrong with fuel pump or he vaccum or the tappet or the coil or the sensors or the injectors. My cng advancer or emulator are causing problem and he suggested me to visit a cng elctrician. After too much confusion and disappintment, I visited the cng electrician and told him the whole story. He thorouhly checked the emulator and advancer and told that both are ok.

    After this hectic experience, I reached back my office with too much confusion and disppointment.

    I am really too much confused. Could not rely on any of the diagnosis. Liana or other experts, please let me come out of the situation and advise about the correct diagnosis.

    Anxiously awaiting for you help.

    Regard,
    nomi

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    I think you should listen to what the Suzuki guys have to say. They're trained in company organized workshops, and they're usually skilled in what they do. They however, charge more than a normal garage mechanic. I had my baleno brakes fixed from 5 mechanics, but the problem solved through Suzuki aabpaara. Thanks to them.

    Again, the problem is severe in your case, and you'll complicate it by visiting any other mechanic. Suit yourself buddy, this is just an opinion.

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    but the two suzuki mechanics diagnosed different problems. confusing
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    1. Is it factory-fitted CNG? if not then which type of CNG kit, that is, open system or closed system?
    2. if fuel pump is working fine then Check the condition of fuel filter (Petrol).
    3. Till further advice plz also check all the petrol pipes for looseness or damage.
    4. Do u feel petrol smell when car is started on petrol?

    Hopefully we'll find some solution to ur problem inshallah.
    Take care

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    suzuki peoples are just rip off they dont know jack about it , tappet adjustment has nothing to do with all that , if your fuel pump is fine and working properly check your lines for any choke end and if all lines are fine than service your carburator that all it needed mate .
    regards

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    Simply pay a visit to a good mechanic who has good hands on EFi cars ask him to check all fuel injectors,I'm having very strong believe that the problem is with the injectors as driving CNG vehicles on petrol with regular intervals is never been adopted among us and this results in clotting and then malfunctioning of injectors.Give it a try i hope you wont regret (Inshallah)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihsaan View Post
    1. Is it factory-fitted CNG? if not then which type of CNG kit, that is, open system or closed system?
    2. if fuel pump is working fine then Check the condition of fuel filter (Petrol).
    3. Till further advice plz also check all the petrol pipes for looseness or damage.
    4. Do u feel petrol smell when car is started on petrol?

    Hopefully we'll find some solution to ur problem inshallah.
    Take care
    Thanks ihsaan bhai.It is not factory fitted cng. It's normal landi ranzo kit for efi with emulator and advancer. I don't exactly know whether it is opened or closed. Please tell me how to check whether it is open or closed. I have checked the pipes and no one is loose, but I do smell petrol when I started the car in this situation when it is not picking up the race. It's like the car is over with some exessive fuel. Please note that when I block the return petrol pipe, the car goes to it's normal condition, without any sort of missing. Please advise more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shqamar View Post
    suzuki peoples are just rip off they dont know jack about it , tappet adjustment has nothing to do with all that , if your fuel pump is fine and working properly check your lines for any choke end and if all lines are fine than service your carburator that all it needed mate .
    regards
    Thanks shqamar bhai. Please tell me how to check it's choke end. It is an efi car. No carbeurator.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IIIM5 View Post
    Simply pay a visit to a good mechanic who has good hands on EFi cars ask him to check all fuel injectors,I'm having very strong believe that the problem is with the injectors as driving CNG vehicles on petrol with regular intervals is never been adopted among us and this results in clotting and then malfunctioning of injectors.Give it a try i hope you wont regret (Inshallah)
    Thanks IIIm5 bhai. I will surely get it's injectors checked. One thing is out of my mind, as mentioned earlier, that when I block it's return petrol pipe, the car becomes ok. Like it never had any problem. What it shows???
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    any one???
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomi700 View Post
    any one???
    It seems like the return valve is stuck, allowing excess of fuel to return.
    Adnan's
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    <P>
    Quote Originally Posted by nomi700 View Post
    I don't exactly know whether it is opened or closed. Please tell me how to check whether it is open or closed. </P>
    <P>
    </P>
    <P>&nbsp;</P>
    <P>Kit is closed loop if the emulator/advancer get a feedback signal&nbsp;from the lambda sensor (also known as Oxygen sensor or simply O2 sensor), otherwise its an open loop system.</P>
    <P>&nbsp;</P>
    <P>If its an open loop system then&nbsp;i suspect ur lamba sensor..... but dont worry u can always clean it up by removing it. Lambda sensor is installed right at the start of the exhaust duct (ie silencer), it has a cable and a connector, disconnect the connector and remove the lambda sensor by unscrewing it. u can clean the sensor by </P>
    <P>1. using 'carbeurator cleaner spray' easily available in market, or</P>
    <P>2. Dip the sensor (the portion that needs to be cleaned) in vinigar, or</P>
    <P>3. Even u can use coke or pepsi to dip the sensor for cleaning. (Plz dont drink it afterwards) <IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif" smilieid="23"></P>
    <P>&nbsp;</P>
    <P>In case of option 2 and 3, it will take longer to clean the sensor may be more than 12 hours, but option 1 is relatively quicker.</P>
    <P>&nbsp;</P>
    <P>Secondly, plz tell does the&nbsp;'Engine check' light also comes on during missing? if yes then u might need a scan test (fault code identification thru scantool or computer). Also tell me which 'fuel return line' u r talking about? plz check if that return line is damaged. Also check all the piping under floor of the car. &nbsp;If lambda is working fine, then it appears as the fuel system is getting air from some damaged fuel line that too before the injectors because ur car is running fine on CNG so no problem with valve or engine, however for leak detection u might have to take pain to detect it. Injectors will be the last option.....</P>
    <P>&nbsp;</P>
    <P>take care</P>

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihsaan View Post
    <P></P>
    <P>&nbsp;</P>
    <P>Kit is closed loop if the emulator/advancer get a feedback signal&nbsp;from the lambda sensor (also known as Oxygen sensor or simply O2 sensor), otherwise its an open loop system.</P>
    <P>&nbsp;</P>
    <P>If its an open loop system then&nbsp;i suspect ur lamba sensor..... but dont worry u can always clean it up by removing it. Lambda sensor is installed right at the start of the exhaust duct (ie silencer), it has a cable and a connector, disconnect the connector and remove the lambda sensor by unscrewing it. u can clean the sensor by </P>
    <P>1. using 'carbeurator cleaner spray' easily available in market, or</P>
    <P>2. Dip the sensor (the portion that needs to be cleaned) in vinigar, or</P>
    <P>3. Even u can use coke or pepsi to dip the sensor for cleaning. (Plz dont drink it afterwards) <IMG class=inlineimg border=0 alt=0 src="https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/images/smilies/smiley-laughing.gif" smilieid="23"></P>
    <P>&nbsp;</P>
    <P>In case of option 2 and 3, it will take longer to clean the sensor may be more than 12 hours, but option 1 is relatively quicker.</P>
    <P>&nbsp;</P>
    <P>Secondly, plz tell does the&nbsp;'Engine check' light also comes on during missing? if yes then u might need a scan test (fault code identification thru scantool or computer). Also tell me which 'fuel return line' u r talking about? plz check if that return line is damaged. Also check all the piping under floor of the car. &nbsp;If lambda is working fine, then it appears as the fuel system is getting air from some damaged fuel line that too before the injectors because ur car is running fine on CNG so no problem with valve or engine, however for leak detection u might have to take pain to detect it. Injectors will be the last option.....</P>
    <P>&nbsp;</P>
    <P>take care</P>
    thanks Ihsaan bhai.

    it is normal CNG kit and i think without a lambda sensor, so it is a close system CNG kit. but let me confirm it again.

    no check engine light cones when it is missing on petrol.

    there are two pipes coming/ going to the fuel tank. one is relatively wider than the other, that is the pipe from which the fuel is pumped from the tank to engine. The other one is relatively less wider than the main pipe. it is the return petrol pipe, which takes back the excess petrol to the tank. the car becomes ok when i block this pipe.

    As per my desi mechanic (whom i am confused to believe) that there is a vaccum function in the return petrol pipe and due to some malfunction, it is taking excess fuel back to the tank. so car is not getting enough fuel on low rpm to accelerate. is it like so. i also some some time feels, due to some petrol smell on starting, that the car is over.

    let me also check the petrol piping for any leakage. but i dont think it exists as there is no sign of leakage on the ground. but let me confirm.

    please advise.
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    sab say pehlay petrol check karo aur injector cleaner istamaal karo

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomi700 View Post
    thanks Ihsaan bhai.

    it is normal CNG kit and i think without a lambda sensor, so it is a close system CNG kit. but let me confirm it again.

    no check engine light cones when it is missing on petrol.

    there are two pipes coming/ going to the fuel tank. one is relatively wider than the other, that is the pipe from which the fuel is pumped from the tank to engine. The other one is relatively less wider than the main pipe. it is the return petrol pipe, which takes back the excess petrol to the tank. the car becomes ok when i block this pipe.

    As per my desi mechanic (whom i am confused to believe) that there is a vaccum function in the return petrol pipe and due to some malfunction, it is taking excess fuel back to the tank. so car is not getting enough fuel on low rpm to accelerate. is it like so. i also some some time feels, due to some petrol smell on starting, that the car is over.

    let me also check the petrol piping for any leakage. but i dont think it exists as there is no sign of leakage on the ground. but let me confirm.

    please advise.
    It is quite obvious that,there is a some leakage or pin hole in return line,causing air lock,and due to air lock problem fuel flow is restricted,which can be the source of missing.So get it checked thoroughly.
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    i had the same problem in my civic 2005 , honda gave me around 18000 estimate and said tht fuel pump to b replaced , injectors will b cleaned , fuel gallery will b chkd n clean bla bla . i said ok , i will take another opinion from somewhere ! i then showed this problem to a local mechanic here in karachi and he said it will b fixed easily in just 1500 rupees ! he told me tht this is nothing but needs to b serviced the throtle bopdy and chked . he did so and alhamdoLILLAH the car got fine just in 1500
    something fishy about number of total posts !!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by argtr65 View Post
    It is quite obvious that,there is a some leakage or pin hole in return line,causing air lock,and due to air lock problem fuel flow is restricted,which can be the source of missing.So get it checked thoroughly.
    BUt he was saying tht when he closed the return line the car respond OK so its useless to chk the leakage for air lock , when one is closing the return pipe its like total block !
    something fishy about number of total posts !!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nadeem5476 View Post
    BUt he was saying tht when he closed the return line the car respond OK so its useless to chk the leakage for air lock , when one is closing the return pipe its like total block !
    yes Nadeem5476, you are right. i got the leakage checked yesterday. pipes are ok.

    please also note that, on petrol, the missing is on low rpm, upto 2000, but when it crosses the 2000 rpm (very difficult to cross), no missing is felt.

    yar i am really confused.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nadeem5476 View Post
    BUt he was saying tht when he closed the return line the car respond OK so its useless to chk the leakage for air lock , when one is closing the return pipe its like total block !
    If return line blocked from fuel rail side and missing stoped,then the most probability of leakage in return line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomi700 View Post
    yes Nadeem5476, you are right. i got the leakage checked yesterday. pipes are ok.

    please also note that, on petrol, the missing is on low rpm, upto 2000, but when it crosses the 2000 rpm (very difficult to cross), no missing is felt.

    yar i am really confused.
    It may be to dirty TP sensor or worn / Carbonised butter fly.
    Never loose hope in life,every step gives u something.

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