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Thread: Need Advise of Experts on Mileage Issue with Suzuki Margallah

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    Default Need Advise of Experts on Mileage Issue with Suzuki Margallah

    Dear Experts,

    I am stating the problem below along with relevant details. Need your expert advise to resolve the issue at hand.

    Car Details:

    Suzuki Margallah with stock G13B Carby Engine Driven 260K KM. No issues with the performance. Maintained on Fully Synthetic 10-40 Oil (suits with better idle and improved mobility experience). Proper regular maintenance at every 5K KM.

    Had been using LUCAS 4 TIP plugs and was getting at least 11.5-12 KM/L until May 2014 (sometimes even better).

    Issue:

    Car's milage has dropped to 9.5-10.5 KM/L for no apparent reason since last 4 months.

    Fixes applied:

    Plugs have been cleaned (seems irrelevant since there is no starting or performance issue any way).
    A loose hose pipe (for vaccum) has been replaced on carburator, was making shan-shan noise.
    A loose fuel pipe has been replaced.
    Fuel system cleaner from STP has been poured.
    Carburator cleaner from STP has been poured several times (does improve idle and smoothes the drive). Used once a month any way.
    Gear Oil has been changed with Caltex Thuban SAE 90.
    Car Alignment has been re done (believe me it does improve the milage of the car - as per my previous experience).

    A sympton of some issue that i had been observing is a strong petrol smell (for about 20-30 sec) once there is less fuel in the tank and i turn off the engine. Mechanic says that he couldn't find any blockage in the exhaust of fuel tank.

    Result:

    Haven't seen any improvement in milage it is still between 9.5-10.5 KM/L.

    Way Ahead:

    Currently using LUCAS 4 TIP plugs which are in good nick, no issues with starting or idle or acceleration. They are being used for at least 30-40K KMs. Previous Bosch 4 TIP plugs worked 100K KMs without any issue.

    Does changing these plugs with NGK platinum (single tip) be of any use and will improve the milage?

    Using OEM plug wires came with the car in 1998, should i change these to any good 8 MM or 10 MM wires?

    Orignal cylincer came with car Made by Sanki Japan is making small noises like chan chan, should i change it now (since mechanic suggested no need since no apparent issue). I believe if exhaust system is in precise condition it does improve the milage as well.

    I will really appreciate your feed back.

    Regards

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    @imran
    yes i also have good experience with NTN bearings.
    @faisal:
    Advance timing should be done by a mechanic using timing gun. you wont be able to do it yourself probably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faisalkarim55 View Post
    how to advance ignition timing? can I do it myself?
    If u haven't done it before u might not be able to ... for cng carb engine car ... keep plug gap to 0.7 .. use normal plugs and timing to 18-22 degrees ... the best way to do is to take it to electrician who can set it by listening to engine sound ... very non-technical but this i the right process .. u need to set timing with respect to cng so no no scale is given unless an advancer is used ,, but first set thte plug gap ... the key is that it should start on first self ... what is condition of engine ? have you seen the plugs after endine over haul ?
    "You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can never repay you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by faisalkarim55 View Post
    on 15-oct-2014, got ignition timing correction and spark plugs checking and cleaning. The car is flying in the air but havent checked the mileage yet as it takes time to determine correct mileage. Here I would like to ask the experts about correct mileage determination technique. WHATS THE BEST WAY TO CHECK MILEAGE?
    1- Fill 10 litre petrol in empty tank. Drive till last drop and check mileage?
    2- Get Tank Full, drive 100 km, refill to full tank and check how much litres were required for full tank and divide the mileage with litres filled?

    suggestions plz
    PS: my mechanic suggested No. 2
    fuel tank has sediments in it like rust and dirt ,, keeping fuel level low can result in clogginf of fuel lines and filter

    -- what is the condition of plugs are there any oil deposits on it ... what about that jerking prior to heating up issue has it been resolved
    "You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can never repay you."

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    yeah the jerking is no more there but one thing is that when i leave car on cng the previous evening, it takes a little while to take ignition and stops between as soon as you remove your foot from race pedal, this continues for 1 minute drive atleast after which everything seems ok. Should I switch off my car on petrol when parking it overnight? there is no such problem when I leave on petrol and start the next morning. I gave my car to a company contractor workshop for ignition timing adjustment and the guy (who seems literate) told me he advanced 2 degrees to improve the ignition timing and set the plug distances. Since I am a chitta unparh to automotives, could not understand what he was talking about. Next day I checked the car and the jerks and stopping issues had gone. It was a bingo moment for me but that CNG startup after overnight stay switched off on CNG is kinda making me worried.

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    fuel economy check is still pending as I am waiting for next months salary to waste money on petrol economy check

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    Quote Originally Posted by faisalkarim55 View Post
    yeah the jerking is no more there but one thing is that when i leave car on cng the previous evening, it takes a little while to take ignition and stops between as soon as you remove your foot from race pedal, this continues for 1 minute drive atleast after which everything seems ok. Should I switch off my car on petrol when parking it overnight? there is no such problem when I leave on petrol and start the next morning. I gave my car to a company contractor workshop for ignition timing adjustment and the guy (who seems literate) told me he advanced 2 degrees to improve the ignition timing and set the plug distances. Since I am a chitta unparh to automotives, could not understand what he was talking about. Next day I checked the car and the jerks and stopping issues had gone. It was a bingo moment for me but that CNG startup after overnight stay switched off on CNG is kinda making me worried.
    looks like timing has advanced more than required level .. a longer self could be due to timing
    "You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can never repay you."

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    the long self thing happens only when it is started after long time like in morning....

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    Quote Originally Posted by faisalkarim55 View Post
    the long self thing happens only when it is started after long time like in morning....
    This is due to the fact that at cold start-up a rich air to fuel ratio is required to ignite and warmup.
    The best solution to this is to switch off the engine on petrol overnight, start on petrol and then change over to gas...
    No need to play with the ignition timing, balance the timing suitable for both petrol and gas.
    Don't leave a highway for a byway....

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    yeah that sounds the best possible solution to the problem.

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    thanks to all of you for your kind support. i m now looking forward to fixing AC. I got it repaired (infact changed everything except compressor to new) from Thal Aircon Tariq road but I was not satisfied by the cooling. Recently the gas is finished and I am again thinking to get a complete overhaul of AC. is there any reliable AC technician in karachi? Thal charged a lot of money and that too like a Ehsaan e azeem on me k "sir ham to margalla or porani garion ka ac thek he nae krte", like you give them a brand new car and these bloody idiots are only capable of servicing it. Automobile maintenance field is full of thieves and thugs who will rob you of your money and time and take no responsibility whatsoever.

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    @faisal

    Ideally gas should not have leaked from your AC if they had done the right job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faisalkarim55 View Post
    thanks to all of you for your kind support. i m now looking forward to fixing AC. I got it repaired (infact changed everything except compressor to new) from Thal Aircon Tariq road but I was not satisfied by the cooling. Recently the gas is finished and I am again thinking to get a complete overhaul of AC. is there any reliable AC technician in karachi? Thal charged a lot of money and that too like a Ehsaan e azeem on me k "sir ham to margalla or porani garion ka ac thek he nae krte", like you give them a brand new car and these bloody idiots are only capable of servicing it. Automobile maintenance field is full of thieves and thugs who will rob you of your money and time and take no responsibility whatsoever.

    so they refuse to work on old cars just because its old? Ask them to use "brand new and genuine" hand tools for your car and make sure they throw them away after your job.

    any technician feeding you this story of old cars this n that does not know what they are doing, As long as there is a reliable A/C unit in the car that was also made by Denso - they should not refuse to work.

    but you said that there is no charge in the unit anymore - they did not do a good job in finding leaks - go back to them and ask them to fix it.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    would you believe they charged me PKR 18000 (1.5 years back) for the whole service which included Evaporator coil change, dryer change, blower motor change, compressor repair and gas charging. The ac used to chill at night or in evening but pathetic in day time. I went back to them, they made lame excuses and told me this is best you can get from this ac otherwise buy a new cultus ac for 45000. ********... I came back unsatisfied and assumed that each and every person sitting in pakistani market is a thief and you cant win from them. They are worst than the target killers and terrorists. They rob you of your money and time and still are not identified as robbers or thieves.

    Anyhow, recently, I went to another ac mechanic (a friend referred). He changed the compressor and installed the one used in Mehran (according to him it works fine in margalla). Charged the gas and serviced. He charged me 5000(with moneyback/compressor back guarantee for all this and now the ac is working much better than what I got from Thal aircon.

    In day time however I am still not fully satisfied with the cooling because its not very hot these day still it hardly maintains cooling in day time. Please tell me Mehran compressor is OK with margalla? What should I do to improve the cooling in day time. At night it chills but in hot day time it is just OK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faisalkarim55 View Post
    would you believe they charged me PKR 18000 (1.5 years back) for the whole service which included Evaporator coil change, dryer change, blower motor change, compressor repair and gas charging. The ac used to chill at night or in evening but pathetic in day time. I went back to them, they made lame excuses and told me this is best you can get from this ac otherwise buy a new cultus ac for 45000. ********... I came back unsatisfied and assumed that each and every person sitting in pakistani market is a thief and you cant win from them. They are worst than the target killers and terrorists. They rob you of your money and time and still are not identified as robbers or thieves.

    Anyhow, recently, I went to another ac mechanic (a friend referred). He changed the compressor and installed the one used in Mehran (according to him it works fine in margalla). Charged the gas and serviced. He charged me 5000(with moneyback/compressor back guarantee for all this and now the ac is working much better than what I got from Thal aircon.

    In day time however I am still not fully satisfied with the cooling because its not very hot these day still it hardly maintains cooling in day time. Please tell me Mehran compressor is OK with margalla? What should I do to improve the cooling in day time. At night it chills but in hot day time it is just OK.
    Actually, it's not only the compressor but the condenser as well. What I understand is that now at this stage you may look at the condenser capacity and see whether increasing will positively improve in cooling capacity.
    Don't leave a highway for a byway....

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    Need Advise of Experts on Mileage Issue with Suzuki Margallah -1497955Need Advise of Experts on Mileage Issue with Suzuki Margallah -1497959

    Ok Dear Fellows,

    Changed plug wires procured from smartdevilkiller (Babar) KHI. Plug wires were claimed to be made in america-champion. but they are not as evident in the pictures. Name can be read easily. However since they were 8 MM so i have installed them.

    Before and after pics are attached.

    It was a DIY.

    worked smoothly. There isn't any quantifiable improvement however i can say that there is a slight improvement in acceleration.

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    Need Advise of Experts on Mileage Issue with Suzuki Margallah -1497968Need Advise of Experts on Mileage Issue with Suzuki Margallah -1497969

    Later i observed slight missing (which has never happened before). It might be due to loose connection of 1 wire to plug which i suspect. I will get it checked from mechanic if happens again.I am attaching a comparison pic for the wire with the orignal plug wire. Name of the new wire is easily readable as Seiwa. I searched and Seiwa is a japanese brand. Looks ok to me.

    i didnt recieve the wires in a packed Seiwa box, instead it was a open set of 5 wires.

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    @margallahr.Bro thanks for guidance. will be replacing the plugs to NGK platinum and will share the results accordingly.I hope the information provided regarding wires help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imrananr View Post
    Actually, it's not only the compressor but the condenser as well. What I understand is that now at this stage you may look at the condenser capacity and see whether increasing will positively improve in cooling capacity.
    I think we cant increase the condenser capacity, can we? The radiator like condenser coil fitted in front is just fit in the place. I think a bigger coil will be required which I suppose can not fit in that region. Could you please tell the specs of original company fitted compressor of margalla? And, if we replace it with the mehran compressor, does it make much difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thinking View Post
    @margallahr.Bro thanks for guidance. will be replacing the plugs to NGK platinum and will share the results accordingly.I hope the information provided regarding wires help.
    brother your machine looks carefully handled mashallah.

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    @faisal

    Thanks Bro.

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