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Thread: Calling all experts - CNG: Mitsubishi Lancer 1.6/Auto [CVT]

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    Default Calling all experts - CNG: Mitsubishi Lancer 1.6/Auto [CVT]

    Hi everyone,

    Would appreciate advise, feedback and opinions about getting CNG installed in my 1.6 Lancer; an automatic based on CVT. Here's the background:

    I installed CNG immediately upon buying the car a year or so ago, but had to remove and sell it due to an extremely unpleasant experience. The guy who installed it had done it without the emulator and advancer because, as per him, that was the only way to retard the injection into accepting CNG in the case of lancers because of the CVT thing.

    While he was probably full of it, the bottom line is that my car started acting all messed up - Irritating jerks that felt like as if the transmission was screwed, even when driving on octane - So I removed the CNG and then spent 2 months wasting money getting EVERYTHING diagnosed from a range of places -

    Sadly, none of them could figure the culprit since the scans always showed all sensors/gearbox etc as all clear. Finally resolved that myself after wasting a depressing amount of time and money. Have been driving on petrol ever since, but the average pretty much sucks as compared to other 1.6 contenders.

    More importantly, I've now run across a couple of dudes who are completely guaranteeing that the car will run like a dream on CNG regardless of the CVT and all that - They've even assured me that they've done it on countless similar lancers - My fear, right now, is of once more running into the same sort of issues [frustrating transmission jerks while cruising] I had last time, and I'd thus appreciate any sort of advise here.

    E. Saville

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    well installing CNG on a car with an automatic transmission is always a big NO

    firstly, because CVT transmission lancers tend to be a bit underpowered and on CNG you will have a noticeable decrease in power and torque

    secondly, the advancer will mess up your transmission as the ECU is programmed to function on petrol and the advancer will tweak these settings and there you are, a screwed up transmission.

    I suggest keep the car on petrol, drive it like it's meant to be driven and spend your money on petrol instead of going and buying a new transmission after installing CNG.

    Please correct me if I provided any incorrect information
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    @Rohaan: Thanks a heap bro :-) Your advise is pretty much 'exactly' what my take on the situation has been since the past year - Just wanted to affirm that stance by checking out if other people have perhaps had different experiences; not seeming likely at this point though
    E. Saville

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    The multipoint injection kit by BRC works good in it as it does not fiddle with the ECU inputs
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    As far as I know : CNG fitting in a car EFI system requires adapters for Injectors. Reason, CNG does not go through the EFI sys rather it is directly fed to intake. Now if u do not use adapters which give the computer sys of car a simulation that petrol is being injected and resultantly thhe computer sys does not give any error loghts or tries to adj the in/out ratios
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    @Xulfiquar: Thanks bro - But I don't have a clue as to what the multipoint injection kit by BRC thing is - Any idea if it's available in KHI and any hands on verification that it doesn't eventually screw the gears anyway

    And @ Naweed: I think that still results in the in-dash engine check light always being on bro, and that's most always a bad sign
    E. Saville

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slayzen View Post
    Hi everyone,

    Would appreciate advise, feedback and opinions about getting CNG installed in my 1.6 Lancer; an automatic based on CVT. Here's the background:

    I installed CNG immediately upon buying the car a year or so ago, but had to remove and sell it due to an extremely unpleasant experience. The guy who installed it had done it without the emulator and advancer because, as per him, that was the only way to retard the injection into accepting CNG in the case of lancers because of the CVT thing.

    While he was probably full of it, the bottom line is that my car started acting all messed up - Irritating jerks that felt like as if the transmission was screwed, even when driving on octane - So I removed the CNG and then spent 2 months wasting money getting EVERYTHING diagnosed from a range of places -

    Sadly, none of them could figure the culprit since the scans always showed all sensors/gearbox etc as all clear. Finally resolved that myself after wasting a depressing amount of time and money. Have been driving on petrol ever since, but the average pretty much sucks as compared to other 1.6 contenders.

    More importantly, I've now run across a couple of dudes who are completely guaranteeing that the car will run like a dream on CNG regardless of the CVT and all that - They've even assured me that they've done it on countless similar lancers - My fear, right now, is of once more running into the same sort of issues [frustrating transmission jerks while cruising] I had last time, and I'd thus appreciate any sort of advise here.

    Slayzen, pretty late reply for your question but here goes. Installing a CNG fuel system without an advancer, emulator and lembda is highly uncalled for. As for your jerking experience on CNG, unfortunately it was not the CNG that was the trouble. I bought one of my friends a Lancer and it had trouble with the CNG in terms of engine stall, RPM drop down at idling and jerking. However, the funny thing is that it was a manual transmission. The actual problem in his case was a leaking air filter that was causing the engine to jerk and die out at idling especially.

    The solution was pretty simple in his case - we had the air filter assembly worked out. The air filter assembly was missing a bracket on the upstream of the filter on the lower end. The entire thing was replaced for some 2k and things started working. However, even after that there was some jerking trouble on CNG alone and we discovered that if the air filter were cleaned out every other day or so, there was no trouble. Mind you, the jerking and the loss of power occurred with CNG alone but not with gasoline given of course the higher calorific value and the ability to tolerate greater disturbances in the overall air fuel mixture.

    Substance LFL/LEL in % UFL/UEL in % Autoignition temperature
    by volume of air by volume of air
    Gasoline (100 octane) 1.4 7.6 246?280 ?C
    Methane (natural gas) 4.4?5 15?17 580 ?C

    If you look at the table above, you will notice the LEL (lower explosive limit) which represents the lowest limit at which the fuel will ignite in air. If you end up disturbing your air fuel mixture by any means, such as a leaking air filter or a dirty air filter, you will end up with what local mechanics call "engine over ho gaya hai". Gasoline can work with high doses of leaking air but methane (the largest component of CNG) cannot do so. Similarly, gasoline can work with low doses of air, such as when your air filter is clogged up but again methane fails to fit the bill. The fuel system in any car is designed to keep the air fuel mixture optimised within the LEL and the UEL limits but any disturbance will cause problems such as your engine jerking, dropping down engine speed and eventually shutting down. Also, please notice the auto-ignition temperature that can be taken as an indicator of how easily a fuel will burn. The higher the auto-ignition temperature, the harder to burn the fuel in question. This is another reason why CNG is more difficult to deal with in terms of installation and troubleshooting.
    Another strange thing, the filters for Lancers are typically being imported. Other than a Lancer, I have not seen the need to constantly clean out the air filter with any other JDM vehicles. The air filter for Lancers are also markedly different in terms of the internal construction and flow patterns and I suspect that the filter film being used might be too tightly knit too causing this problem.
    CFB

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