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Thread: About Hybrid Cars

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    Default About Hybrid Cars

    As Salam Alaikum

    As per subject have some queries about Hybrid Cars in Pakistan. Though Lets discuss Toyota Prius and Honda Civic Hybrid as these are mostly available in Pakistan. Never mind I am zero in case of knowledge regarding Hybrid cars.

    Most concerned about batteries.What is the average life of their battery.as I have heard tht Prius cost sumthing around 2lac+ so if one has to change after every 2 3 years it isn't feasible.

    Performance: lets better compare Prius vs Civic. A friend bought Hybrid civic and he has to push it all the way on Murree and Nathia Gali area

    Everyday Maintenance:There are no engine parts available lets leave tht. But we do not Have Geeks like Xulfiqar & Sergtr everywhere who can atleast diagnose properly whts the problem so it can fixed or part can be sourced out imported.Yet lets also keep DIY on a side.

    FOREMOST: Whats the mileage
    Please share figures of Both Civic and Prius.

    Only Petrol: Can we drive it on petrol only in case battery is faulty or so.

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    you have to remember that hybrid vehicles need both items running to operate, a hybrid with a bad battery can run on petrol but the motor generator needs to be working, that in a civic is between the trans and engine, if you dunk that in gutter ka pani mixed with baarish ka paani - (say bye bye to your car)

    the prius has this in two parts - both of them are in the transmission, actually the prius transmission is a CVT type but it has one basic difference, torque is channeled through both MGs - while conventional CVTs in cars have belt drives..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    you have to remember that hybrid vehicles need both items running to operate, a hybrid with a bad battery can run on petrol but the motor generator needs to be working, that in a civic is between the trans and engine, if you dunk that in gutter ka pani mixed with baarish ka paani - (say bye bye to your car)

    the prius has this in two parts - both of them are in the transmission, actually the prius transmission is a CVT type but it has one basic difference, torque is channeled through both MGs - while conventional CVTs in cars have belt drives..
    Means they are quite Fragile
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    there is one hybrid civic mechanic in sialkot ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by wasay_ahmed View Post
    Means they are quite Fragile
    They are not developed for 3rd world countries which have problems like Pakistan..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    They are not developed for 3rd world countries which have problems like Pakistan..
    I was reading a thread some minutes ago regarding HKS.. you and the poster were quarelling about some technical logic.. He is right, u jump tp cnclusion without doing ur homework...

    now coming to your post, it is with immense sadness that I read ur comment.. How on earth can you justify what you said? Hybrid were not meant for 3rd world countries like Pakistan??? Can you elaborate on ur comment? what are you trying to say? Pakistan doesnt have capable mechanics to repair a decade old technology such as hybrid or Pakistan is a country on Mars where hybrid batteries cannot be imported?

    Dont forget, you are talking about a country that is a nuclear nation. We have Intelligent mechanics and electrician that can diagnose/repair any electrical issues in a vehicle..

    Now coming to the Hybrid Civic comment.. I personally own a Civic Hybrid 2007 self imported from london two months back.. (Its on sale on pakwheels as im moving abroad).. for ur kind information, the car transmission is CVT (you mentioned the only prius is CVT equiped).. I have personally driven both cars and found civic hybrid to be far better than prius.. prius is very light in weight and seems to be made of plastic while on other hand, civic hybrid is a strong built car with all available features such as cruise control etc...

    @Poster: Please stop listening to rumours.. Your friend who said he went to murree and nathia gali and had to push his car.. tell him to stop lieing.. I have personally driven my car from Isb...Murree...Nathiagali...Abbotabad...Taxila and back to islamabad.. I did not face a single incident of low power from the engine... it ran smooth with airconditioner and i came back to isb with more than half tank of fuel in the tank...

    We have a tendency of listening and accepting what others say before doing our own homework... everything is avail on google and customer reviews.. visit them and learn for ur self rather than listening to some people that have never even owned a civic...

    Cheers!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by abdulkarim View Post
    I was reading a thread some minutes ago regarding HKS.. you and the poster were quarelling about some technical logic.. He is right, u jump tp cnclusion without doing ur homework...

    now coming to your post, it is with immense sadness that I read ur comment.. How on earth can you justify what you said? Hybrid were not meant for 3rd world countries like Pakistan??? Can you elaborate on ur comment? what are you trying to say? Pakistan doesnt have capable mechanics to repair a decade old technology such as hybrid or Pakistan is a country on Mars where hybrid batteries cannot be imported?

    Dont forget, you are talking about a country that is a nuclear nation. We have Intelligent mechanics and electrician that can diagnose/repair any electrical issues in a vehicle..



    Cheers!!!
    I have lived in Pakistan for most part of my life and even had an auto servicing business, and a car or any production item does not entail one questioning what a country can do or has capability of.. Iran has nuclear facilities but they dont have hybrid cars or fully electric cars. That does not mean they cannot afford it, it does not make economical sense to them.

    My reasoning for the third world country like Pakistan was because of its rules, regulations, duties and costs in general ownership of cars. You can get yourself a Tesla roadster (electric sports car) - I dont care, will it work YES, will it be economical, (TBD) and can it be put back into service once failed, Ask yourself this question...

    A product is only good till you have its support, because you yourself did not design it, and when you are stuck with something that you cannot cannibalise parts from other similar models you are for sure STUCK. a very simple example is the newer MB vehicles with smart keys, why do you think you need to buy a NEW KEY and not just reprogram another used key, it does not have a physical key blade and all of those type keys look exactly alike. It does not work. So you go about to "import" a key and you need to dish out money.

    coming back to the point, people in Pakistan have to cherish their cars because its a high value asset that does not depreciate, this was not a problem when cars were designed with a 25 yr EOL with basic dead nuts simplicity like the datsun 120Y. But when you have a complicated item with no support it becomes a nightmare, just like most offices in Pakistan do not use checkpoint as a firewall while in other countries its standard.

    So you might have all the scientists and engineers who can make a kicking nuclear reactor but they are useless for this purpose of discussion.

    Further explaining - a car made today with a medium budget has an estimated EOL of about 5 years after which it is expected to be recycled into a new car, keep that in mind, I doubt you will buy a 9 yr old used airconditioner for your home (estimated EOL being 10 years for such appliances). It would be needing extreme service investment and you still wont be at 100% unless its a product that is made like that (such products have double pricing usually). All this is besides the very odd problems that Pakistan has in driving, floods that look like a river and a general breakdown maintenance mentality in upkeep of vehicles.

    So wait for the scales to settle then put up something.

    great example is the brand of Nissan, Fiat, Daewoo (GM), why do you think they are considered headaches???? expensive spares and unreliable support from the distributor, I once went to Nissan to buy a new torque convertor and some transmission solenoids for a car they officially sold - Nothing, they did not have the parts and neither offered to get them, I had to source then myself from Thailand. If the distributor carrying the brand name does not care then the item is as good as scrap metal when its out of commission.

    btw - the HKS thread, if you or anyone in their sane mind can prove its worthiness by explaining the basic physics of it and that it can increase 14hp by it, I will personally consider them ALLAH, to hell with the concept of shirk or anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by abdulkarim View Post
    I was reading a thread some minutes ago regarding HKS.. you and the poster were quarelling about some technical logic.. He is right, u jump tp cnclusion without doing ur homework...

    now coming to your post, it is with immense sadness that I read ur comment.. How on earth can you justify what you said? Hybrid were not meant for 3rd world countries like Pakistan??? Can you elaborate on ur comment? what are you trying to say? Pakistan doesnt have capable mechanics to repair a decade old technology such as hybrid or Pakistan is a country on Mars where hybrid batteries cannot be imported?

    Dont forget, you are talking about a country that is a nuclear nation. We have Intelligent mechanics and electrician that can diagnose/repair any electrical issues in a vehicle..

    Now coming to the Hybrid Civic comment.. I personally own a Civic Hybrid 2007 self imported from london two months back.. (Its on sale on pakwheels as im moving abroad).. for ur kind information, the car transmission is CVT (you mentioned the only prius is CVT equiped).. I have personally driven both cars and found civic hybrid to be far better than prius.. prius is very light in weight and seems to be made of plastic while on other hand, civic hybrid is a strong built car with all available features such as cruise control etc...

    @Poster: Please stop listening to rumours.. Your friend who said he went to murree and nathia gali and had to push his car.. tell him to stop lieing.. I have personally driven my car from Isb...Murree...Nathiagali...Abbotabad...Taxila and back to islamabad.. I did not face a single incident of low power from the engine... it ran smooth with airconditioner and i came back to isb with more than half tank of fuel in the tank...

    We have a tendency of listening and accepting what others say before doing our own homework... everything is avail on google and customer reviews.. visit them and learn for ur self rather than listening to some people that have never even owned a civic...

    Cheers!!!
    @HKS crap
    lets not induldge in useless argument.Since tht stuff is useless I have installed such wth my own hands in a car and its definately useless.

    Coming back to topic pls share wht mileage u use to get in Islamabad.

    @my frnds hybrid car
    maybe it might have some fault since tht lad is also an automobile fan as he has been induldged in serious modification n tweaks in cars
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    @Xulfiqar: Thank you for the conprehensive explanation of what you meant. But I still disagree with most of what you wrote. You have to support you words with some logic. The reason Iran might not have hybrid cars is due to sanctions imposed on them.. I have personally visited Iran and I can assure its a country that has gone far... Pakistan is a country where fuel cost 100 rupees per litre. Then how can you say hybrid cars are not economical. It is economical, trust me whn I say it cuz I own one. The fuel average I get in local driving is 20+ per litre. Which means its 8 kms more of a conventional honda civic. Driving pleasure is immense knowing my car recharges its battery when i pick my foot from the accelerator peddle or apply brakes.. Built Quality is far superior than local honda civics.. Climate control.. air bags and many other options are available in this car.. while other civic without these options are far more expensive than the hybrid... So how wud u say its not economical... Let me do some calculations for you!

    My office is 20km from my home.. So total driving distance would be 40km/day.. 40 multiply 22 days = 880 km per month. 880 divide by 20km/l = 44 liters of petrol which is 4400 rupees...

    If I had conventional Honda civic which gives maximum of 12km/l.. The cost wud be: 880 divide by 12 = 73.3 liters of fuel which would be 7330 rupees (Dont forget petrol was almost 107 last month)... So i am saving 4000 rupees per month by just driving the hybrid... Npow do the calculation on average 2000km per month running and see the economics...

    2000 divide by 20 = 100 liters of petrol which would be Rs 10000/- month

    2000 divide by 12 = 166.6 liters of petrol which would cost 16600/- month.

    Driving pleasure yet economical is a good bergain...

    @Wasay: Hope the above calculations answers ur questions...
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    What about the batteries, he asked? Many have scared me owing to their estimated prices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abdulkarim View Post
    @Xulfiqar: Thank you for the conprehensive explanation of what you meant. But I still disagree with most of what you wrote. You have to support you words with some logic. The reason Iran might not have hybrid cars is due to sanctions imposed on them.. I have personally visited Iran and I can assure its a country that has gone far... Pakistan is a country where fuel cost 100 rupees per litre. Then how can you say hybrid cars are not economical. It is economical, trust me whn I say it cuz I own one. The fuel average I get in local driving is 20+ per litre. Which means its 8 kms more of a conventional honda civic. Driving pleasure is immense knowing my car recharges its battery when i pick my foot from the accelerator peddle or apply brakes.. Built Quality is far superior than local honda civics.. Climate control.. air bags and many other options are available in this car.. while other civic without these options are far more expensive than the hybrid... So how wud u say its not economical... Let me do some calculations for you!

    My office is 20km from my home.. So total driving distance would be 40km/day.. 40 multiply 22 days = 880 km per month. 880 divide by 20km/l = 44 liters of petrol which is 4400 rupees...

    If I had conventional Honda civic which gives maximum of 12km/l.. The cost wud be: 880 divide by 12 = 73.3 liters of fuel which would be 7330 rupees (Dont forget petrol was almost 107 last month)... So i am saving 4000 rupees per month by just driving the hybrid... Npow do the calculation on average 2000km per month running and see the economics...

    2000 divide by 20 = 100 liters of petrol which would be Rs 10000/- month

    2000 divide by 12 = 166.6 liters of petrol which would cost 16600/- month.

    Driving pleasure yet economical is a good bergain...

    @Wasay: Hope the above calculations answers ur questions...


    ^lets just say that you come to Lahore, stay at a relative's place in C Block Model town, just two hours before you were supposed to leave it had started to rain, you see a river flowing instead of roads, accelerated by a Toyota Hilux while you'd be stuck at that place till it dries because if you take your car out in that water you'll fk your generator which as explained above is between the engine and the transmission of the hybrid civic. In a normal automatic car we just drain the water and ATF out, put fresh ATF in and the car gets back into service.

    Your hybrid would be stuck and non-operational till you get a new generator.

    And this is A PROBLEM in our country, two hours of rain is enough for the roads to be flooded in MOST parts of the country and hence the statement that the Hybrids aren't designed for countries or places which have problems like Pakistan. In Islamabad you might not be facing such problems but in Lahore or Karachi you will do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vajih102 View Post
    What about the batteries, he asked? Many have scared me owing to their estimated prices.
    the HV battery is about $3000 in US but it is subsidized to the best of my knowledge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by syncview View Post
    the HV battery is about $3000 in US but it is subsidized to the best of my knowledge.
    Wow! I was quoted the same but still thought to confirm. Thanks!

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    Xulfiqar is right, buying a hybrid is a brave thing to do...

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    Syncview: is giving a logic based on situation that can turn deadly for any car.. even a normal civic can have problems when there is flood.. but does it mean people would stop buyin car cuz they are afraid it would flood in 2012 or 2020.. lolzzz..

    guys I simply dont see any logic in rejecting a car that was built keepin all types of terrain in mind.. I am sure there are flood issues in US and other parts of the world.. but did people stopped buying cars... You logic is based on "If a plane can crash in thunderstorm... then stop flying planes"

    Moreover, Honda civic transmission is just like any other CVT transmission.. its uses the same mechanism and fluids.. pls correct me if im wrong...

    As far as the batteries are concerned.. you can batteries as cheap as 1000 dollars depending on what brand you buy...

    Cheers!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by abdulkarim View Post
    Syncview: is giving a logic based on situation that can turn deadly for any car.. even a normal civic can have problems when there is flood.. but does it mean people would stop buyin car cuz they are afraid it would flood in 2012 or 2020.. lolzzz..

    guys I simply dont see any logic in rejecting a car that was built keepin all types of terrain in mind.. I am sure there are flood issues in US and other parts of the world.. but did people stopped buying cars... You logic is based on "If a plane can crash in thunderstorm... then stop flying planes"

    Moreover, Honda civic transmission is just like any other CVT transmission.. its uses the same mechanism and fluids.. pls correct me if im wrong...

    As far as the batteries are concerned.. you can batteries as cheap as 1000 dollars depending on what brand you buy...

    Cheers!!!
    Of course we can't predict nature and we aren't talking floods, here two hours of rain means tonnes of water on roads, that too which is mixed with sewerage water..which is not good at all for the body of the car let alone your hybrid's generator.

    Yes the CVT transmission mechanism is almost same, can't say anything about fluids, difference is that generator which lies between your engine and your transmission. If that water mixture goes into that part of the car, it will fry your generator out rendering your car useless till you get a new generator. (same thing with toyota prius)

    Floods will kill any car, 1 ft standing water on road will kill your hybrid only, other would pass you by.

    Its not about rejecting a car, if you can maintain and run it, good for you. If you can wait till the water on the road dries enough so that you can drive your hybrid safely, more power to you.

    This is the generator/electric motor we're talking about (see what is there instead of a flywheel/flexwheel):

    About Hybrid Cars - honda civic hybrid 2

    About Hybrid Cars - 112 04 coty z 2004 toyota prius sedan engine diagram

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    i am importing one prius and it will reach by august, will give my review then
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    Quote Originally Posted by abdulkarim View Post
    @Xulfiqar: Thank you for the conprehensive explanation of what you meant. But I still disagree with most of what you wrote. You have to support you words with some logic. The reason Iran might not have hybrid cars is due to sanctions imposed on them.. I have personally visited Iran and I can assure its a country that has gone far... Pakistan is a country where fuel cost 100 rupees per litre. Then how can you say hybrid cars are not economical. It is economical, trust me whn I say it cuz I own one. The fuel average I get in local driving is 20+ per litre. Which means its 8 kms more of a conventional honda civic. Driving pleasure is immense knowing my car recharges its battery when i pick my foot from the accelerator peddle or apply brakes.. Built Quality is far superior than local honda civics.. Climate control.. air bags and many other options are available in this car.. while other civic without these options are far more expensive than the hybrid... So how wud u say its not economical... Let me do some calculations for you!

    My office is 20km from my home.. So total driving distance would be 40km/day.. 40 multiply 22 days = 880 km per month. 880 divide by 20km/l = 44 liters of petrol which is 4400 rupees...

    If I had conventional Honda civic which gives maximum of 12km/l.. The cost wud be: 880 divide by 12 = 73.3 liters of fuel which would be 7330 rupees (Dont forget petrol was almost 107 last month)... So i am saving 4000 rupees per month by just driving the hybrid... Npow do the calculation on average 2000km per month running and see the economics...

    2000 divide by 20 = 100 liters of petrol which would be Rs 10000/- month

    2000 divide by 12 = 166.6 liters of petrol which would cost 16600/- month.

    Driving pleasure yet economical is a good bergain...

    @Wasay: Hope the above calculations answers ur questions...

    wait for 1st rain - and you will see frequent Turtle & an Orange Triangle . if you want to avoid it, during rain use the other conventional vehicle at home.
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    Prius is the ultimate car to get when talking about hybrids.More luxurious,powerful ,fuel economical and spacious than Civic .Civic Hybrid is a joke when talking abt hybrids .Prius makes you feel hybrid.
    @topic I am not in favour of hybrid cars due to their battery condition.Better get a conventional JDM car or a Volkswagen Golf Diesel
    Aunda Fan

  20. #20
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    Xulfiqar's Avatar
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    I think the whole concept of "economical" is flawed, economical running but extreme service expense makes the car more expensive than a regular car. To further go deep, Hybrids are made to be recycled every 5 years, That does not happen in Pakistan as I said earlier.. speaking of Iran, half my maternal family hails from there - I know what Im saying..

    in the same case Mr Karim - I want to ask you what brand washing machine you use at your house??
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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