Crescent Sighting Is Not Rocket Science

[TrueEye]

@ Storm: You've got some great wisdom in your signature dear.

and have some halwa maulana sahib, if my posts make you twist in your pants (or shalwar or whatever)...

[Temojin]

@ARS, mate being an imam and an aalim is a lot different. I would give you an example. It would be like if mufti muneeb tries to teach surgery to that doctor who is an imaam and it is vice versa. I hope you get my point.
@True, baat kerne ki tameez kam az kam matt bhoola kero. Talk directly to anyone who you have issues with rather than trying to act like a movie hero. I would appreciate if you stop writing in this manner and try to reciprocate in a proper way. If you don't have sufficient knowledge about astronomy (like cheers has) and can't provide anything despite a predictive internet map, try not to cram your words then. I looked at namak mirchi club's videos that you had posted which contained pashtun doing something to an indian........... that is racism (to call a fellow Pakistani an indian just because of his descent) and you promote it by posting those videos with a grin and indirectly telling cheers to look at them. Who knows he can slap harder than that person in the video (this is the very behaviour which makes our enemies divide us)
Don't think being from bannu or being a pashtun makes you tough. You have no idea about many things my mate.
Now I would appreciate if you don't try to show off again by posting more offensive comments and acting like a big gun.
Thank you.

[Cheers]

Folks, I made this thread just to discuss in plain words the connection or lack thereof of the thickness of the crescent of a Hijri month's first. Whether or not I succeeded is a different matter, but I intended to share information that would help anyone evaluate the matter solely on its merits.

So please be kind enough to keep this thread clean of political garbage and finger pointing. If anyone wants to do that, start a new thread or participate in the existing ones meant for it. Please.

I've mentioned already that I'm not affiliated with any governmental entity or racial group and am least concerned with what it says or do. What I'm concerned with is what Pakistani and foreign astronomers who know their stuff say about crescent sighting, so that the common Pakistani can benefit. When I say Pakistani, I mean Pakistani and nothing else. In case anyone is wondering, we Pakistani astronomers would rather throw our telescopes smashing from the fifth floor than give thought to ethnicity. I did not know the ethnicity of an astronomer family (yes, an entire family) for two years after I got acquainted with them. Our society's president, who is also probably the most experienced amateur Pakistani astronomer and has had years of collaboration with national and international astronomers and organizations, is a Pathan, born and raised in a remote village of KP. Our top astrophotographers are both Punjabis.

Back to the topic of "crescent thickness at the start of the lunar month", please.

[Cheers]

Some simulations with the Sun just set (i.e., at an altitude of 0 degrees) that demonstrate the effect of latitude on the tilt of the crescent and hence its thickness at first visibility.

Kohat on 9th September (Shawwal crescent was not sighted). Those of you who have an idea of angular degrees, note how low the Moon is:

Karachi on 9th September (Shawwal crescent was not sighted). Moon twice as high as in the northern areas, yet still very low. Enlarged in the inset for showing the phase.

Albany, Western Australia on 9th September. Even though the Moon was about two hours younger (and therefore thinner) than it was in Pakistan, it was easily visible, because the cusps were pointing nearly upwards. Note the Moon's altitude.

[saadtn1]

@cheers once again nice info
and please don't mind comments from trueeye ... he has been like this since the day one at pw. Making issue out of every thing is his job! I wish that Pakwheelers learn how to participate in a healthy discussion without getting into fight by pointing fingures! sigh

[saadtn1]

RHC has everything to do with it. We have a funny impression that maulanas have halwa and all and do nothing. In fact, Mufti sahab has been teaching deen for more than 25 years now as well as many of other scholars in that committee. Are we more capable than them when it comes to deen and deciding facts according to Sahih Ahadith? I would agree to halwa thing for that actor maulvi of peshawar and the likes of Fazlur Rahman.The people at MET there are not kids or having insufficient knowledge of astronomy but are doctorate holders in this subject and they know where to set the telescopes.

I always wonder at the trend where most of us try to seem like scholars after reading internet articles or watching some youtube videos. Proper study and research in some area can't be surpassed through mere internet surfing.

By the by, Eid in Russia was on Thursday. Now don't start questioning their knowledge about space and astronomy please and that they were a day earlier so their telescopes and satellites are faulty

Baqi iske baad Assalam o Alaikum.

I agree with you...
I will like to add that RHC also take shahadat from MET department... and I agree, they are really professional guys!!!!

[c123pk]

Slaughtering of people in Sawat and FATA,Suicide bombing,Looting convoy of Flood relief,Sialkot incident and Karachi killings,Is there any doubt left that we are extremist nation?

This was their guy :

This one too :

and you think by taking their side they ll spare you ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_of_the_War_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%93present)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War

[vazim]

My question has always been the same as Storm wrote, why KhyberPk or Masjid Qasim don't have a fight on 11 other occasions of moon sighting everymonth ?? Why the hell they go to sleep then????? Can someone elaborate?

@ cheers

nice info & thanks for sharing here.

[genius83]

The whole Crescent sighting controversy for Ramazan and Shawwal occurs because of one reason and that is most people from KP wants to celebrate it with Afghanistan, which in turn celebrate it with Saudi Arab. Problem starts with the Crescent of Ramazan as if RHC can't find a proper Shaadat for it, and announced that tomorrow is not first Ramazan, some people in KP will still announce that they will have first Roza from tomorrow, so when we get to the Shawwal moon sighting time they are ahead of us by one day and if there is no crescent sighting for Shawwal then they still needs to celebrate the eid because they already have completed the total of 30 roza's.

@Cheers
Excellent info, but still remember Moon sighting for religious purpose is a very sensitive job and those Maulana's and Mufti's have to make sure the person who is giving shaadat of seeing the moon is responsible and sensible person who knows the basic laws of sharia, perform all the Farz regularly and don't take any kinds of drugs, plus he/she is also in his/her adulthood too, as shaadat of children for moon sightings are not allowed.

I always goes to try to find the moon especially for Ramazan and Shawwal and never came back with a different view then from RHC.

[TrueEye]

@True, baat kerne ki tameez kam az kam matt bhoola kero. Talk directly to anyone who you have issues with rather than trying to act like a movie hero. I would appreciate if you stop writing in this manner and try to reciprocate in a proper way. If you don't have sufficient knowledge about astronomy (like cheers has) and can't provide anything despite a predictive internet map, try not to cram your words then. I looked at namak mirchi club's videos that you had posted which contained pashtun doing something to an indian........... that is racism (to call a fellow Pakistani an indian just because of his descent) and you promote it by posting those videos with a grin and indirectly telling cheers to look at them. Who knows he can slap harder than that person in the video (this is the very behaviour which makes our enemies divide us)
Don't think being from bannu or being a pashtun makes you tough. You have no idea about many things my mate.
Now I would appreciate if you don't try to show off again by posting more offensive comments and acting like a big gun.
Thank you.
Thanks for the unsolicited advice, but I guess I know very well how to behave with a particular person or in what tone and tenor should I respond to their posts.. So, while your suggestion is appreciated, in this instance however, it's unfortunately utterly out of place and not welcome..

Secondly, do not deviate from the main subject matter of the topic.. my video on NMC was absolutely innocuous, don't try to put a spin of your own interpretation on it.. and BTW why dont you beat your racism drum when people share jokes at NMC that deliberately debase pathans and laugh it off?

So, my friend, don't teach me how to behave, 'cause I know very well how to deal with people - based on their demeanour... This guy Cheers, I genuinely thought he was a nice fellow, but I saw a couple of his cocky posts (including one directed at me) that made me behave with him the way I did.. I exactly know how to behave like a c-o-c-k with another c-o-c-k... while one may have gained a little advantage over others in some specific area, that doesn't warrant them becoming smug c-o-c-ks and to look upon the other as a mere DHead.. I'm talking about you Cheers, before you underestimate someone's comprehension abilities, first take an account of your ownself.. you couldn't even understand a simple example that had been given as an analogy..

and lastly, my post wasn't mainly directed at you Temojin, but one pseudo wannabe smart-a$$ side-kick (yep, he plays as a side-kick to many affluent members here on PW), who thinks of himself as some very intelligent smarty-pants, but the reality is that he is one dumb dimwit...

here is a testament to his absolute dumbness...

Click Here

Now here is one such attempt on his part to look cool and a smart-a$$ by posting a comment, which I've seen him posting every now and then - in fact only two words i.e. "attention deprived" (I guess he has picked the term up somewhere, but poor soul doesn't totally understand it's meaning)...

Somebody tell me that's not a racist/hate comment..

Originally Posted by bango
Its funny how a few nuts aren't bothered about the rest of the 10 months, but when its about the Ramadan and Zilhaj, they have to somehow disagree with the clan to show their existence. Attention deprived losers!

Be my guest bango, I'll introduce you to some very rich attention deprived losers, I hope you would enjoy their company very much...:*

[TrueEye]

The whole Crescent sighting controversy for Ramazan and Shawwal occurs because of one reason and that is most people from KP wants to celebrate it with Afghanistan, which in turn celebrate it with Saudi Arab. Problem starts with the Crescent of Ramazan as if RHC can't find a proper Shaadat for it, and announced that tomorrow is not first Ramazan, some people in KP will still announce that they will have first Roza from tomorrow, so when we get to the Shawwal moon sighting time they are ahead of us by one day and if there is no crescent sighting for Shawwal then they still needs to celebrate the eid because they already have completed the total of 30 roza's.

Thats not the whole story.. actually some people can't digest the fact that they are in fact wrong... I put forth a very valid question to our sole resident specialist on the issue, but he somehow managed to have overlooked it.. the funny thing is, the shot of the moon to which I was referring has also been taken down by some not so gentleman mod.. but even the funnier thing is that he forgot to delete one posted just below that one.. LoL! ohh Lord, the irony..!

Following is the picture of the moon taken by one of the members a day before the official eid on 10th of September (that's right, a day before the alleged first of Shawal).. and yes, I've read the essay posted above detailing the causes of variation in the thickness of the first day's moon, and it's quite understandable.. but going by RHC's decision, that was the moon before the first day of Shawal (as has also been emphasized by the topic poster).. when asked if he had any explanation to that, he went all crazy, so too did his supporters..

P.S. the funny thing is, even a vision impaired person could have sighted the moon on that day, so then what do we have the freaking RHC for?

Ans: to gorge on halwa on eid day and pay some people to defend their absolutely insane and irrational decisions...

[TrueEye]

Here is a deal Cheers.. explain that to me like a gentleman without getting over-excited.. and if that makes perfect sense, I'll apologize to you and your entourage and would never ever post a comment on your thread.. But if you couldn't give a satisfactory response, then you and your entourage will owe me an apology... How's that?

[saadtn1]

LOL! Funny stuff going on in this thread enjoyed it!!!!

[TrueEye]

LMAO..! and Ali bhai has posted a photo of Gen Zia ul Haq too ... LoL LoL!

[TrueEye]

and bango (and to all others too for that matter)... don't you ever think that since people from a specific region i.e. NWFP, and in NWFP itself of a certain ethnicity i.e. pashtuns have little to none representation over here on the forums, you can just about get away with any crap you churn out against them, or us..! not under my watch buddy... and shove that comment about losers up yours..

It's such a shame i've to use that kind of language, but since no one is here to rein in such a behaviour on PW, I have to resort to it.. and then that crap head is a mod too..

[genius83]

@Trueeye
Allow me to explain to you and all those who thinks that the pic is of moon for the second day of shawwal and not first day of shawwal.

When ever we have a Islamic month of 30 days, the moon that we will see will always be thicker then the moon after the Islamic month with 29 days. Reason the total age of moon is 28 days and some hours, so what we see on a certain 29th day of a Islamic month is a new born moon which was only few hours old, while the moon on 30th day of a month is over one day old.

Now, the best way to settle this argument is to see the full moon when it happens, the full moon date is on 23rd of September according to decision of RHC, while according to your assumption it is on 22nd of September.

I would like to request all PW members to try and get the pics of moon on these 2 days and post it here, and then we will try to find which pic has got the full moon, until then show patience and cool down all of the posters of this thread.

[Cheers]

@ Saadtn1: Thanks Saad for the appreciation. I can honestly tell you I have no hard feelings for him. If ever it is possible for us to meet in person, we'll Insha Allah discuss lunar crescent sighting as good friends would. If possible, we might even have a meeting with more experienced/knowledgeable astronomers, such as our society's president. We recently had such a meeting on 24th August dedicated solely to crescent sighting, and every participant got lots to learn.

I just prefer to Insha Allah not correspond with him through these forums any longer. He can trust me it is by no means meant to be an offence. I wish him all the best.

[c123pk]

You are a good boy cheers bro, you have some great knowledge on astronomy, i appreciate your work and i agree with you

May Allah bless us all with more Knowledge, as Knowledge is power, Ameen.

[HardTalk]

Wow, you guys really know how to derail a thread.

Thanks for the information Cheers, once again, useful as always.

[honrolla]

Bhai sab - Mufti Muneeb sab so sikhaye

its simple unki chaltee hia , woh bol day sab duniya eik taraf Pakistan ki eid eik taraf