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Thread: Mercedes Benz differential oil periodic change?

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    Default Mercedes Benz differential oil periodic change?

    My brother has a C180 Kompressor Avantgarde 2006 in immaculate condition. The car is near 100k km driven.
    It is Shahnawaz maintained with complete service history. When it was imported from UK complete periodic maintenance was done from Shahnawaz. The other day we were looking at the service history and found out that the rear axle differential oil wasn't replaced. So my brother called Shahnawaz Islamabad and asked what's the periodic replacement schedule for the differential oil, their reply was surprising, ''is your vehicle causing any trouble or noise, he said 'no', it's not periodically replaced rather its lifetime.''
    Then we called Shahnawaz Karachi and got a similar reply.

    I would like to have an expert opinion on this, whether differential oil of this particular model replaced periodically or not?
    If someone has maintenance booklet of the particular model he may share the image please.
    If what Shahnawaz saying is correct, please elaborate the logic/ reason, since my understanding is that as differential is a mechanical part the oil should get dirty with time and also if at all it doesn't get dirty, every oil has a life and after that it looses its chemical properties.
    Please help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    yup - its good, smelly as hell though

    did you test the engine fan? if its running at engine rpm you are at 80% risk of it blowing apart at high rpm and you will be very sorry when that happens.
    i went to electrician and asked to check fan rpm. he said he doesn't have such tools to check so.
    BTW after a couple of minutes checking, he confirmed that its fan clutch is working fine. There was a slight play in the fan, but he said its very slight play and its OK to ignore it unless it increase the sound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tintin1 View Post
    i went to electrician and asked to check fan rpm. he said he doesn't have such tools to check so.
    BTW after a couple of minutes checking, he confirmed that its fan clutch is working fine. There was a slight play in the fan, but he said its very slight play and its OK to ignore it unless it increase the sound.
    firstly
    you dont need an electrician to check a mechanical fan clutch

    the only few characteristics of a good working fan are its behaviour at different temperature and events (starting up etc)

    start up from cold
    the fan should be loud and be blowing air pretty violently - this happens due to the silicone oil in the clutch settling out and dragging the fan upto speed. It will speed up with engine rpm

    30 seconds from cold start
    the fan should go quiet and slow down - engine rpm should not affect fan rpm.

    engine hot (normal)
    the fan should cycle in (get slightly loud or pretty loud at higher rpm) - it will be blowing lots of air.

    engine rpm above 3500 (any temperature)
    the fan should cut out (the clutch will go to off state and basically just freewheel) - the fan will suddenly go quiet.

    If your fan doesnt behave as above - the silicone oil is low or the clutch is toasted.

    You mention it has play in it, That is a very dangerous condition - if that fan breaks off the engine at even mid range rpm the damage will be quite expensive, namely the radiator, fan shroud, radiator pipes, bonnet etc. In the event of not noticing this - the engine's head gasket will blow out from overheating.

    I would suggest replacing the fan clutch - buy an old one and refurb it.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    firstly
    you dont need an electrician to check a mechanical fan clutch

    the only few characteristics of a good working fan are its behaviour at different temperature and events (starting up etc)

    start up from cold
    the fan should be loud and be blowing air pretty violently - this happens due to the silicone oil in the clutch settling out and dragging the fan upto speed. It will speed up with engine rpm

    30 seconds from cold start
    the fan should go quiet and slow down - engine rpm should not affect fan rpm.

    engine hot (normal)
    the fan should cycle in (get slightly loud or pretty loud at higher rpm) - it will be blowing lots of air.

    engine rpm above 3500 (any temperature)
    the fan should cut out (the clutch will go to off state and basically just freewheel) - the fan will suddenly go quiet.

    If your fan doesnt behave as above - the silicone oil is low or the clutch is toasted.

    You mention it has play in it, That is a very dangerous condition - if that fan breaks off the engine at even mid range rpm the damage will be quite expensive, namely the radiator, fan shroud, radiator pipes, bonnet etc. In the event of not noticing this - the engine's head gasket will blow out from overheating.

    I would suggest replacing the fan clutch - buy an old one and refurb it.
    Thank you so much. Its much helpful.
    I have taken print of your message and will keep me while observing my car at different temperatures as per your saying.

    As far as I know, we don’t have silicone oils available yet here in PK. I guess these are “next generation” oils that we use them once and then never have to replace it or drain it. Just keep topping it up if necessary. Right?
    I heard somewhere this technology was introduced for engine oils but oil companies not agree with it because it will significantly cut down their oil productions.

    Coming back to point, if the silicone oil is less, then we don’t have any process to top it up.? We just have to find the new fan (already filled with silicone oil) and just install it. I guess?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tintin1 View Post
    Thank you so much. Its much helpful.
    I have taken print of your message and will keep me while observing my car at different temperatures as per your saying.

    As far as I know, we don’t have silicone oils available yet here in PK. I guess these are “next generation” oils that we use them once and then never have to replace it or drain it. Just keep topping it up if necessary. Right?
    I heard somewhere this technology was introduced for engine oils but oil companies not agree with it because it will significantly cut down their oil productions.

    Coming back to point, if the silicone oil is less, then we don’t have any process to top it up.? We just have to find the new fan (already filled with silicone oil) and just install it. I guess?
    the silicone oil for the fan clutch is sold as a toyota spare part. it comes in a 10cc bottle.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    In PK when we go to change the axle boots, or gear seals, etc. then car mechanic just open the part and hand it over to us.
    we have to take that part to "Kharadiya shop" and he will undo the boot or relatex part and will hand it over to us.
    we will go to market to find that boot/part and then come back and give to him, he fixes and then we come back to mechanic and mechanic do his job.

    i have question, does it also happen outside PK also (or lets say where you are)?
    because a common mechanic says he will only undo the part and will fix it back. He has no idea how to change the seals or boots or wash to radiator or fix the gear seals or to fix the steering racks etc. etc.
    whereas all these works are not a rocket science. Mechanic should do it by themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tintin1 View Post
    In PK when we go to change the axle boots, or gear seals, etc. then car mechanic just open the part and hand it over to us.
    we have to take that part to "Kharadiya shop" and he will undo the boot or relatex part and will hand it over to us.
    we will go to market to find that boot/part and then come back and give to him, he fixes and then we come back to mechanic and mechanic do his job.

    i have question, does it also happen outside PK also (or lets say where you are)?
    because a common mechanic says he will only undo the part and will fix it back. He has no idea how to change the seals or boots or wash to radiator or fix the gear seals or to fix the steering racks etc. etc.
    whereas all these works are not a rocket science. Mechanic should do it by themselves.
    axles are nowadays exchanged by shops - meaning e.g. car comes in with clicking axle - mechanic removes it and exchanges it with rebuilt part already in stock. fast service.

    If the car is some unique model whose axles are hard to find as they are very long life then they will remove and reboot them themselves, The tools are already there. No-one goes to shops buying parts so theyre mechanic can install them.


    With steering racks - they almost are swapped for rebuilt units - there are lots of small businesses that rebuild steering gearboxes, racks and power steering pumps too - Most are sold by a larger chain of stores where they exchange your old part. Very workable.

    The kits for the pump and rack etc are also sold as spare parts - but its usually nowadays bought by DIYers or mechanics who are servicing very hard to find parts.



    In Pakistan I used to reboot axles myself. The job is not too bad - just a bit messy and I mostly did it because I wanted to use the good greases I had and seal the boots myself with correct SS clamps and tools - NOT dalda ghee canister clamps.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    the silicone oil for the fan clutch is sold as a toyota spare part. it comes in a 10cc bottle.
    Though till yet no problems in fan and its running good.
    But I called Toyota Garden Motors, Toyota Walton Motors, Fine Auto, Toyota House, Filter House, etc.
    None of them is having this “Silicon Oil”.

    Eventually found it at some shop. He said one bottle of Silicon oil is Rs. 850/- and its hardly 10~15 ml oil.
    So I have to buy at-least 5 bottles for fan.

    Now my question is, can we open the fan of 2JZ, top up the oil, and fix it back ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tintin1 View Post
    Though till yet no problems in fan and its running good.
    But I called Toyota Garden Motors, Toyota Walton Motors, Fine Auto, Toyota House, Filter House, etc.
    None of them is having this “Silicon Oil”.

    Eventually found it at some shop. He said one bottle of Silicon oil is Rs. 850/- and its hardly 10~15 ml oil.
    So I have to buy at-least 5 bottles for fan.

    Now my question is, can we open the fan of 2JZ, top up the oil, and fix it back ?

    yes you can - but look at some pictures and procedures first, there will already be oil in the clutch which is reused. the little bottle you buy is for topping up that oil.

    does your fan actually variate rpm or just follow engine rpm?
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    yes you can - but look at some pictures and procedures first, there will already be oil in the clutch which is reused. the little bottle you buy is for topping up that oil.

    does your fan actually variate rpm or just follow engine rpm?
    I tried to observe it many times, but perhaps I couldn’t have such technical eye to make some perfections about its functioning.
    The fan spins with a little push of the finger when engine is off.
    I checked some videos on youtube, and first thing they check is that try to spin the fan with finger. If it doesn’t move, then it means its time to change it. But my case is different. I checked the fan to two different mechanics. One said fan is perfectly OK and no need to do anything unless it creates any problem.
    Other says the speed of fan is not as good as it has to be. This is because its fan is running out of oil or have a very less oil in it. He added that engine will be consuming more fuel when fan speed is not good as it has to be.

    Eventually I opted to change its fan oil.
    Just wondering how much it will take? Because 1 bottle is like 10~12 ml only costing Rs. 850/-
    I roughly guess it will take 40~50 ml. But if you can let me know its capacity, then it will be very helpful. Shopkeeper said he will not return the oil because he will arrange it from somewhere else and its sales are extremely rare.

    DESI TOTKA
    Another guy said rather to buy 4~5 bottles of silicon oil (spending ~4K), its better to buy 1 STP Oil Treatment and fill it in the fan. Because its same thick liquid as of Silicon oil.
    But I said Thank you for the tip.
    Just sharing here for little fun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tintin1 View Post
    I tried to observe it many times, but perhaps I couldn’t have such technical eye to make some perfections about its functioning.
    The fan spins with a little push of the finger when engine is off.
    I checked some videos on youtube, and first thing they check is that try to spin the fan with finger. If it doesn’t move, then it means its time to change it. But my case is different. I checked the fan to two different mechanics. One said fan is perfectly OK and no need to do anything unless it creates any problem.
    Other says the speed of fan is not as good as it has to be. This is because its fan is running out of oil or have a very less oil in it. He added that engine will be consuming more fuel when fan speed is not good as it has to be.

    Eventually I opted to change its fan oil.
    Just wondering how much it will take? Because 1 bottle is like 10~12 ml only costing Rs. 850/-
    I roughly guess it will take 40~50 ml. But if you can let me know its capacity, then it will be very helpful. Shopkeeper said he will not return the oil because he will arrange it from somewhere else and its sales are extremely rare.

    DESI TOTKA
    Another guy said rather to buy 4~5 bottles of silicon oil (spending ~4K), its better to buy 1 STP Oil Treatment and fill it in the fan. Because its same thick liquid as of Silicon oil.
    But I said Thank you for the tip.
    Just sharing here for little fun.
    the reason to use silicon oil is that it wont change viscosity when heated up, the STP oil treatment will thin out when heated up rendering the fan useless.

    A very basic way to test the fan is to start the engine up dead cold and listen for a loud air sound, if you rev the engine the fan will roar and you will literally feel a ton of air being moved around, In about 20 to 30 seconds the engine fan will suddenly go quiet and wont roar at all and the air movement will stop too, the fan will be spinning but with no torque hence actually doing nothing.. If you notice this at the fan - you will see the blades slow down.

    Its very obvious.

    The fan will again start to roar and move air when the bimetal spring on its clutch gets hot. (radiator at about 100C)
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    @Xulfiqar:

    Reading this fan related post of yours. My w202 C180 UK model has a single fan behind its radiator. To me it functions fine in auto mode. Coolant temperature needle stays around 80C mark. Never seen it go up with or without AC.
    What I wish to ask is should its behaviour be like the one you describe for tintin1's crown? Cold start behaviour etc?
    The AC guys (two of them) have said my car's fan is not good and I have always told them I have no issue whatsoever. They say they think the fan starts when the make it move. I have always told them this is a coincidence since the fan functions when the temperature asks for it.
    So when I turn on the AC, the fan does not start rotating. It will when it needs to cool down the coolant in the radiator. Is this normal?

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