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Thread: @Xulfiqar Sb: Bought c180 98 model (my 1st Merc) Help with startup maintenance/repair

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    Default @Xulfiqar Sb: Bought c180 98 model. Need help with maintenance/repair.

    @Xulfiqar Sb:
    I have seen lots of threads and lots of posts and am deeply impressed by your knowledge of vehicles. I am trying to browse through but things are so spread about that it is confusion. Moreover, perhaps every case is different and need specialized help, at least for the first time.

    This Monday, I bought a c180 98, Elegance Model with 93K miles (allegedly) on the odo. In driving for these 3 days I have jotted up a list of my observations, some serious, I believe. I need your expert advice on it. Here is the list of serious observations:

    [Post Edited with problems listed as solved/unsolved. The details of how a problem was solved is spread all over the many pages and posts. Please delve into the thread for details.]

    SOLVED PROBLEMS WITH CAUSES AND REMEDIES:
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1. Vibration in D, Cause: One engine mount was cut, replaced.
    2. Temp gauge does not get to half point, Cause: T-stat valve was jammed, replaced.
    3. Fluids replaced = Engine Oil and Transmission oil.
    4. Vibration in steering at all speeds, Causes: Mountings (changed), warped rotors, machined, balancing and alignment done. New steering shock installed.
    5. Rear Left Window does not close with button on door, Cause: Button faulty, replaced.
    6. Random HVAC blower speed: Ordered HVAC control unit from eBay. Fitted and working fine. No more issue.
    7. Broken Cruise Control: Ordered from eBay. Fitted and working fine.
    8. SRS AIRBAG Warning Light in Dash, Cause: Star scan tool (at Papu ustad, Pindi) told about two crash sensors (one under each front seat) to be faulty (or their connection is faulty). Shop gave a price of Rs.7,000 for 2 but I see that used are cheaply available on eBay. Would order two soon.
    9. Left handbrake shoe friction sound. I fitted new handbrake shoes and thought it needed adjustment. However, it turned out, after 5 tries at it, that the lug nuts on the wheels were of slightly varying length. The longer ones would brush on the handbrake clip that expands the mechanism. Older one was damaged. Got it replaced. Sound started coming after few days. I swapped some lug nuts from other wheels. It is peace ever since!
    10. Intermittent Windows -- Passenger and Driver side windows would not operate after few days of reset in any order. I suspected the rear-left window control module, opened the door cover to find that there is no window control module there! So this must not be the cause.
    Recently, I cleaned all the electric ground points in the vehicle. The issue of intermittent windows had reduced a great deal. More so, because before starting the vehicle, I operate all windows (first point in ignition).
    11. COOLANT VANISHING -- I needed to add 1 L in like 2 weeks (driving 300 miles). The cause was a leaky radiator. In summers the problem increased until I saw coolant drops beneath an idling car. Previous radiator was corroded with use of wrong coolant. Radiator replaced with a good condition exact part (Behr) from a half-cut. Coolant used would definitely be as per spec or MB.

    UNSOLVED PROBLEMS that are being debugged:
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    12. Relay clicking type sound behind key:
    The sound can start anytime but luckily not too often. Usually in peaceful driving it would be calm. Sometimes when I take some action like press brake pedal, turn on indicator, it will start clicking. I can feel the throbbing when I touch the key. Would start and stop itself.
    I have found out that whenever that clicking sound is heard, horn won't blow. Conversely when the horn does not blow, there are chances of those clicking sounds. When the horn blows, there won't be any clicking sound in that drive. Still trying to solicit the cause in a deterministic way.
    13. Sudden Downshift Jerk: Sometimes after driving the vehicle for a long time, like one hour, when slowing down because of mild braking (to a speed for which 1st gear may be needed) the car shifts into 1st gear very hardly.
    Kindly please advise. I am a keeper since I am a busy person. The car I was driving before this is with me for 9 years. For once, I want this car to be in a state that I know how things are. Thank you in anticipation and sorry for trouble.

    @Xulfiqar Sb Bought c180 98 model my 1st Merc Help wi startup maintenancerepair -1636367

    PS: Car is with me for 6 months now, with 99,000 miles on Odo. (21 May, 2016)
    Aamer

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    Now this guy had had the exact same problem as me and some others posted about their problem and solution on this thread. Must read.

    C200 Electric Window & mirrors problem - Mercedes-Benz Forum

    So we must either check:
    1. Contact of Fuses
    2. Interior wiring for lighting etc be dismantled and redone. (not replaced). Somewhere there is something loose.
    3. Check the rear window module. The best way as suggested in the previously posted thread is to check the X30/7 connector under the passenger side front floor), pull each wire one by one from the connector to know what is causing trouble.
    4. the same link suggests that star diagnosis (check the Network Status) must be able to figure it out.



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    A good suggestive one:
    w202 power window trouble - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

    Suggests that often the problem would not be with those items 'showing' the problem. So if front windows are not working, the problem may well be with the rear windows modules!

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    @Xulfiqar Sb: Time for you to share your advice bits, about CAN stuff and this problem which has been around on many MB forums but I really hadn't laid my hands on to any advice that says it 'definitely' would solve or had solved this issue.

    My to do for this problem is:
    1. Check Network Communication with some good scanner.
    2. Check fuses. Remove them, buff them, spin them and if I can lay hand on electric contact grease, grease them.
    3. Check CAN connector for the interior (God knows where it would be for this model, possibly in the floor of the passenger seat). This checking has to be done, when problem is present, since removing fuses would most probably solve the issue for then.
    4. Check rear door modules (rear passenger side door module).

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    [QUOTE=x2;4960443]
    Quote Originally Posted by x2 View Post
    Now this guy had had the exact same problem as me and some others posted about their problem and solution on this thread. Must read.

    C200 Electric Window & mirrors problem - Mercedes-Benz Forum

    So we must either check:
    1. Contact of Fuses
    2. Interior wiring for lighting etc be dismantled and redone. (not replaced). Somewhere there is something loose.
    3. Check the rear window module. The best way as suggested in the previously posted thread is to check the X30/7 connector under the passenger side front floor), pull each wire one by one from the connector to know what is causing trouble.
    4. the same link suggests that star diagnosis (check the Network Status) must be able to figure it out.


    Quote Originally Posted by x2 View Post
    A good suggestive one:
    w202 power window trouble - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

    Suggests that often the problem would not be with those items 'showing' the problem. So if front windows are not working, the problem may well be with the rear windows modules!
    Please remember that the wiring location and also diagram differ from LHD and RHD and the US models differ a lot from the EU models. So dont entirely rely on google.

    You need a technician with a good/capable scan tool to interrogate the CAN and see what errors are showing up. - For starters, remove teh door cards and inspect for water damage or mangling of the wiring.

    you can try disconnecting the modules and testing it that way but it requires that the fault be active and the can is actually down, once you remove the fault the network wakes up and the other items start to work.

    do you know any mechanic who has an SDS tool or similar?
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    So what do u plan to do Sir change the regulator or the fuse.............i think a permanent solution would be to change altenator
    "Stand by your glasses steady and drink to your comrade's eyes.
    Here's a toast to the dead already and hurrah for the next to die."

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    @Xulfiqar Sb: Thank you for replying. It is all sane advice. My current mechanic does not have Star Diagnosis (neither did the earlier one). He has Snap On Solus Pro. Do you think it is good?
    Right now the fault is active. It requires only one day for it to be active. It always starts from the passenger's side window and mirror, which stop working (as they are now).
    Tomorrow I am going to get the ignition coils (BOSCH), adapters (BOSCH), wiring harness (BREMI) changed, since the car is misfiring and unresponsive at times. @Xulfiqar Sb, what is the right spark plug gap for this model? Right now the plugs installed (OWS) have a gap of 1.1 mm. I think they need to be adjusted to 0.8mm (as per my finding on the Internet).
    One thing I just noticed in the car (had been out for a while), that may be of concern in this CAN trouble. The AC/Heater blower speed control malfunctions (speed up and down and that relay/connector type sounds). Half of that heater/AC control lights up (with parking lights) but the blower speed control remains dark. Can it be a possible cause of trouble (or I cannot be so lucky!).
    @Marschall: At the moment, I do not think I am going for any change or replacement. I need to identify the problem and be absolutely sure about it. After all, I am a teacher and does not have a steady influx of $$$!
    I would start with disconnecting some modules and testing their effects .... in case the SDS tool is not 'capable' at my mechanic.

    If everything fails, I need to be with someone with Star Diagnosis tool. Probably Pappu ustad. Do send me his location/contact info, please. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by x2 View Post
    It does so in the W mode too.

    Read several posts on the Internet to find some advice, summed up as follows:

    1. Check vacuum piping to/from vacuum modulator attach with the transmission. (does this car have it or is electronic?)

    2. Reset transmission and throttle body communication.

    3. Flex disc!

    Reset procedure suggested is:
    1. Get in and shut the door
    2. Turn key to position 2 (right before the start position) DO NOT START THE CAR
    3. Press the gas pedal to the floor... past the kick down point... see why I say DO NOT START THE CAR!??!
    4. Hold the pedal there for 15 seconds
    5. After 15 seconds while foot still planted, turn the key off but do not remove it
    6. Release gas pedal... and get ready to be bored
    7. Wait at least 2 minutes while not touching anything in the car, don't open the door even.
    8. After the 2 minutes start the car and drive off normally... you should notice a difference in the shift pattern and smoothness.

    reply to point 1 - the vacuum modulator is only for the old hydraulic 4 spd automatic gearboxes that mercedes used before this one. (It sets the quality of the shift according to engine manifold vacuum)

    please define harsh downshift? - in any condition your 722.6 electronic automatic will make a nudge effect when doing the 2-1 downshift - its completely normal. Also note that all mercedes automatic gearboxes will shift with aggression. Thats how the car is tuned from the factory. The slushing/slipping into gear effect is learned from drive cycles.

    The shift aggression is more pronounced with the 236.14 type ATF which you just used.

    The pedal reset procedure you mention is recalibrating the pedal only - you can reset the shift adaptations by a different procedure or use a scan tool - while at it inspect the clutches for wear, you can get a numerical value of how much the packs are worn down.

    For the torque converter clutch drag you can disable the TCC with the SDS tool and then test the car.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    please define harsh downshift? - in any condition your 722.6 electronic automatic will make a nudge effect when doing the 2-1 downshift - its completely normal. Also note that all mercedes automatic gearboxes will shift with aggression. Thats how the car is tuned from the factory. The slushing/slipping into gear effect is learned from drive cycles.

    The shift aggression is more pronounced with the 236.14 type ATF which you just used.
    I will re-define this (and other transmission related issues) problem after a few days, once the other problems cease to be an issue (InShaAllah).
    If 236.14 type ATF is not right, what is the right ATF for this model (for future reference)?

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    @ x2
    pappu is located near golra moor rwp will give you his contact no. let me see if i can find it
    "Stand by your glasses steady and drink to your comrade's eyes.
    Here's a toast to the dead already and hurrah for the next to die."

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    Quote Originally Posted by x2 View Post
    I will re-define this (and other transmission related issues) problem after a few days, once the other problems cease to be an issue (InShaAllah).
    If 236.14 type ATF is not right, what is the right ATF for this model (for future reference)?
    the factory fill is 236.10 ATF - the only oil meeting that spec is shell ATF 3403-M115.

    236.14 has been specced by mercedes benz as upgrade but in experience the best performance was with the 236.10 - it became really expensive - 3 times the cost of 236.14 until I could buy it.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    btw - the bremi coils are replacements, the OE are Bosch and good repalcements are made by NGK.

    the plugs you see mentioned at 0.8mm gap are non resistive plugs.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    The car got some new items:

    Ignition coils BOSCH (x2) = Rs.15,000
    Coil adapters BOSCH (x2) = Rs.3,000
    Coil wires (Bremi) (x2) = Rs.4,000
    Belt tensioner OEM = Rs.5,500
    Tensioner shock OEM = Rs.3,200
    Pirelli Cinturato P1 tires. = Rs.40,000

    Fuse got buffed and re-inserted. Battery disc and CAN Bus reset.

    Let us see, how things go for a while.

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    The electric 'ghost' problem is still there, and would really take some time for CAN Bus debugging.

    Carried out some replacements as pointed out by alignment guy. So the car got new

    Steering Shock = Rs.3,000
    Steering Arm kit = Rs.2,000
    Control Arm Bushes (3+3, both sides) Lemforder = Rs.10,000
    Helper Rod Bushings (1+1) Lemforder = Rs.1,600
    Ball Joints (both sides) Lemforder = Rs.7,500

    The car's drive and feel has improved drastically. At 100kph, the steering remains as static as if the car is parked.

    So @Xulfiqar Sb was right.

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    I saw your reply in some mercedes related threads , i want to ask that if you have any experience with m benz c class 180?
    Am actually thinking to buy that car but i am really confuse as i have never buy this class car.
    Can u tell me how much avg per litre fuel it do in city?

    With ac

    and maintenence?

    C 180 kompressor model btw 2002 to 2004 kahan tak acha mel jayega?
    Or lahore main who is reliable dealer?
    If this car has resale?

    Mechanc wagera in k mel jatay?i saw your reply in some mercedes related threads , i want to ask that if you have any experience with m benz c class 180?
    Am actually thinking to buy that car but i am really confuse as i have never buy this class car.
    Can u tell me how much avg per litre fuel it do in city?

    With ac

    and maintenence?

    Mechanc wagera in k mel jatay?
    Quote Originally Posted by xulfiqar View Post
    yes this thing,

    its part number has been superseded twice, the original one came with white sealing rings, which leaked after a while, the repalcement came with red sealing rings. The latest one has thick black o rings and takes quite a push to get in the bore. I use transmission gel to seat it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sehgals View Post
    I saw your reply in some mercedes related threads , i want to ask that if you have any experience with m benz c class 180?
    Am actually thinking to buy that car but i am really confuse as i have never buy this class car.
    Can u tell me how much avg per litre fuel it do in city?

    With ac

    and maintenence?

    C 180 kompressor model btw 2002 to 2004 kahan tak acha mel jayega?
    Or lahore main who is reliable dealer?
    If this car has resale?

    Mechanc wagera in k mel jatay?i saw your reply in some mercedes related threads , i want to ask that if you have any experience with m benz c class 180?
    Am actually thinking to buy that car but i am really confuse as i have never buy this class car.
    Can u tell me how much avg per litre fuel it do in city?

    With ac

    and maintenence?

    Mechanc wagera in k mel jatay?
    YEah, mechanics are there, if you want any good reliable mechanic then pm me, i know a person who was working for Shahnawaz for like 19 years, now he has his own workshop decent man who knows that what is he is doing, not like Shahnawaz who tires to rip to apart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sehgals View Post
    I saw your reply in some mercedes related threads , i want to ask that if you have any experience with m benz c class 180?
    Am actually thinking to buy that car but i am really confuse as i have never buy this class car.
    Can u tell me how much avg per litre fuel it do in city?

    With ac

    and maintenence?

    C 180 kompressor model btw 2002 to 2004 kahan tak acha mel jayega?
    Or lahore main who is reliable dealer?
    If this car has resale?

    Mechanc wagera in k mel jatay?i saw your reply in some mercedes related threads , i want to ask that if you have any experience with m benz c class 180?
    Am actually thinking to buy that car but i am really confuse as i have never buy this class car.
    Can u tell me how much avg per litre fuel it do in city?

    With ac

    and maintenence?

    Mechanc wagera in k mel jatay?
    I have repaired quite a lot of benz .

    I see that you are asking for its fuel efficiency and then asking about the kompressor models, kompressor = supercharger - dont buy that car. buy a C200 with NA engine.

    Before you buy it, ask yourself - if you are comfortable in affording it because these cars cannot be serviced reliably with bilal gunj parts or off brand parts like frixa, pikachu, fuji etc. My reason to say this is that almost every other person in Pakistan relies on junkyard parts to service their cars. As the japanese econo cars in Pakista are already low build quality and also used as tissue paper, it doesnt matter if you use junk on it because, its already at low quality to begin with.

    It will hurt you badly if you try to do that on any german car including VW.

    The model you are choosing is a bit old now and its not too hard for any sensible mechanic to sort out. To find one I would suggest dont simply trust (fallanay bhai 20 saal se shahnawaz ltd me thay) - you can follow some threads on PW to see what quality or should I say "kwaltee" of work Shahnawaz Ltd. do, they hire apprentices and keep on swapping them every few years. So its better to find someone who is sensible, has access to service literature and can understand it too, He should also have good tooling for repairs otherwise simple jobs become complex and complex jobs become tiring and tiring jobs become a money pit.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Default @Xulfiqar Sb: Bought c180 98 model (my 1st Merc). Help wi startup maintenance...

    Salam respected Xulfiqar Bhai My name is Zaigham Ali and I am from Lahore , I need your help regarding Toyota Hilux invincible 2013 d4d , please guide me should I go for this model or Thailand Vigo or Pakistan Vigo , your reply is very precious for me ....
    Take care


    Sent from my iPhone using PW Forums

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    Quote Originally Posted by xaigham82 View Post
    Salam respected Sir, My name is Zaigham Ali and I am from Lahore , I need your help regarding Toyota Hilux invincible 2013 d4d , please guide me should I go for this model or Thailand Vigo or Pakistan Vigo , your reply is very precious for me ....
    Take care


    Sent from my iPhone using PW Forums
    You can ask this here.

    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=235740

  20. #79
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    hi thanks xulfi bhai can u help me in getting 180 or 200?
    i need a car who can give upto 11/12 with ac thats not an issues
    than can u tell me if u charge or any thing u can help rgarding buyying a komp?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    I have repaired quite a lot of benz .

    I see that you are asking for its fuel efficiency and then asking about the kompressor models, kompressor = supercharger - dont buy that car. buy a C200 with NA engine.

    Before you buy it, ask yourself - if you are comfortable in affording it because these cars cannot be serviced reliably with bilal gunj parts or off brand parts like frixa, pikachu, fuji etc. My reason to say this is that almost every other person in Pakistan relies on junkyard parts to service their cars. As the japanese econo cars in Pakista are already low build quality and also used as tissue paper, it doesnt matter if you use junk on it because, its already at low quality to begin with.

    It will hurt you badly if you try to do that on any german car including VW.

    The model you are choosing is a bit old now and its not too hard for any sensible mechanic to sort out. To find one I would suggest dont simply trust (fallanay bhai 20 saal se shahnawaz ltd me thay) - you can follow some threads on PW to see what quality or should I say "kwaltee" of work Shahnawaz Ltd. do, they hire apprentices and keep on swapping them every few years. So its better to find someone who is sensible, has access to service literature and can understand it too, He should also have good tooling for repairs otherwise simple jobs become complex and complex jobs become tiring and tiring jobs become a money pit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sehgals View Post
    hi thanks xulfi bhai can u help me in getting 180 or 200?
    i need a car who can give upto 11/12 with ac thats not an issues
    than can u tell me if u charge or any thing u can help rgarding buyying a komp?
    I dont live in Pakistan anymore.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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