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Thread: Urgent help: Mark II Grande 2002-3 engine question

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    Default Urgent help: Mark II Grande 2002-3 engine question

    dear brothers,

    My Mark II Grande's engine has died... it needs to be opened. and Im confused.

    Some mechanics are telling me that just install new engine, others are telling me get the same engine fixed (over hauled)

    What to do? ( the cost considerations are more less the same.)


    What is the better option and why.... I appreciate all the help and coments in advance, i will be checking this every hr and will respond to any further questions required.

    engine is 2000 c.c nor 24ooo c.c.

    rgds

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    as you noted, engine temperature is vital here - never gun a cold engine - it leads to all sorts of headaches.
    Do you have to idle the new/rebuilt engine to warm up before this procedure, or drive it gently till it warms up? I read something about the hone pattern on the pistons wearing out prematurely or something.
    _ 22 km/l from '03 VTi automatic, with plenty of room for improvement
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZainMahdi View Post
    Do you have to idle the new/rebuilt engine to warm up before this procedure, or drive it gently till it warms up? I read something about the hone pattern on the pistons wearing out prematurely or something.
    the thermostat valve will take care of quickly heating up the engine, not more than a few minutes, you can vary rpm from idle to fast idle (this window is used to check leaks) - once its done - you are ready to run.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    In debt of all u fine folks... I will thank you all later individually once done.. I am tilting towards rebuilding/ over hauling the same engine after reading all the posts, I love the car, and it has served me well for 12 plus years. and i dont wanna sell it .

    I read that one of you suggested i get it scanned via computer and share the 'error codes'. excellent advice! Im impressed! In in Karachi.. where can i have this done?

    Secondly, kindly tell me good mechanics in Karachi who are quialified for my hard earned money. Saqib, the motorcycle expert in Tauheed commercial are Karachi, suggested a guy near PIDC... Any others?

    I will post pics as soon as i open up the engine ... so that u guys can help me more.

    Thanks a lot all of u guys.


    one mechanic has told me that the parts for over hauling will cost around 100-110K.. and he will charge 15000 for labor. pls comment

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    @warriorsaint there are people who can do the scanning and provide you with error codes.

    1. Irshad 0300 2237538 @ Tariq road, 2. Naeem 0300 2242025 @ Shahrea Quaideen / Kashmir road signal

    3. Call up Umair 0321 2127270 he owns a crown of the same class and knows a skilled person to manage high-end engines.

    with such passion for your car, spare some time and you will also learn alot onway. Keep your thread updated with pics when swing begins. allow me to suggest after opening up engine prepare a complete list of items needed, keep tagging many of us to be involved with you in the rebuilt journey.

    If you have resources at disposal i suggest sourcing OEM parts from UAE.

    i mean not to annoy you at any stage by so many suggestions.

    I know what a car means to some of us, I have a 22 year old car and from this very forum and by reading Xulfiqar's post the car is very much 'half kick start' and ready to go anywhere in 1000 km radius without a hiccup

    Hanif Bhatti saheb is legend ABBA G of this forum putting many of us together ! @Libra
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    capsat sahab, noted with precission.

    This forum and thread is testement that Pakistan has brains, talent and above all a hi level of servitude. I shall do as you and many others have guided me. i will call all the numbers shared by you.

    Please accept my gratitude for now and later.

    And I look forward to all you folks joining in with your esteemed suggestions during the build.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorsaint View Post
    capsat sahab, noted with precission.

    This forum and thread is testement that Pakistan has brains, talent and above all a hi level of servitude. I shall do as you and many others have guided me. i will call all the numbers shared by you.

    Please accept my gratitude for now and later.

    And I look forward to all you folks joining in with your esteemed suggestions during the build.
    Bro hate to say that but your only choice is to swap 1G-FE with 47-DE Auto.

    Dont even bother an overhaul in the land of pure where 2NZ-FE is space motor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorsaint View Post
    capsat sahab, noted with precission.

    This forum and thread is testement that Pakistan has brains, talent and above all a hi level of servitude. I shall do as you and many others have guided me. i will call all the numbers shared by you.

    Please accept my gratitude for now and later.

    And I look forward to all you folks joining in with your esteemed suggestions during the build.
    The Credit Goes to @LIBRA - ! - putting all nut^heads in one place and still gathering.


    Quote Originally Posted by noomanghori View Post
    Bro hate to say that but your only choice is to swap 1G-FE with 47-DE Auto.

    Dont even bother an overhaul in the land of pure where 2NZ-FE is space motor.
    any ideas for availability of 47DE-Auto in local scrap yards and the price. if it is for just typing sake .. how about a RR Trent engine for Grande ?
    - www.crackwheels.com - A skilled Dictator is much more beneficial to Country......than a Democracy of Ignorant people

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    Quote Originally Posted by capsat View Post
    The Credit Goes to @LIBRA - ! - putting all nut^heads in one place and still gathering.




    any ideas for availability of 47DE-Auto in local scrap yards and the price. if it is for just typing sake .. how about a RR Trent engine for Grande ?
    Bro its simple engine whole engine with 4 speed auto is available at Shershah for 95k minus scrap engine or buy uncut Crown for 240k. 42D & 43D transmissions also work. Fortunately I have yet to seen the 2.0 L engines with M/T so most ECU also works.

    Only the rings & pistons of this engine made by FUJI Japan costs 42k so overhauling is only dream unless person is bachelor like me and has nothing to do on weekends.

    I have done successful swap and wasted 35k on head overhaul only. Mechanics dont have simple vernier caliper & compression tester here and they cant change the damn transmission filter of 1997 Accord so forget about rebuilding this engine unless mechanics r also sourced from abroad.

    If someone dont want to go there for any reason buy a Toyota Crown 1991 favorite Customs officier car smuggled tempered chassis or auction no for 400 to 500k.

    The engine is available in vvti also cost 5-10k more than old one.

    1JZ & 2JZ engines are also easily available for 150k and 200k with auto ECU checked last week.

    All Toyota engines r in good shape and can be bargained easily.

    Just dont go there in a Reborn and never say " mujhe lexus ya Mark 2 ka engine lena hai full compression wala".

    Infact my Baloch friend who went their with me said to the kabariya "mein 20 saal se Hiace chala raha hon mujhe c***** n'a banao"

    Dont know about the Trent thing u mentioned above. Fancy things dont work here unless one owns a Petrol pump.

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    the fuji pistons story is quite funny, there is also a brand of valve guides being sold as "fuji"

    I know the importers - who are importing such for about 4 decades now, The parts are imported under a brand name of "rocky" - No one in Pakistan will pay money for a "rocky" brand name item. And that is exactly what happened.

    They then repacked them as "fuji" - packages made in Karachi paper market, - Fuji sounds very japanese and everyone including their mother in law lined up to pay premium money for the "fuji" valve guides. - which dont exist outside of Pakistan.


    btw - one never goes and ask for a "lexus wala engine" because the kabariya are chay themselves. I have dealt a lot with them and almost all of them knew I dont speak much - but I always pay good money.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    the fuji pistons story is quite funny, there is also a brand of valve guides being sold as "fuji"

    I know the importers - who are importing such for about 4 decades now, The parts are imported under a brand name of "rocky" - No one in Pakistan will pay money for a "rocky" brand name item. And that is exactly what happened.

    They then repacked them as "fuji" - packages made in Karachi paper market, - Fuji sounds very japanese and everyone including their mother in law lined up to pay premium money for the "fuji" valve guides. - which dont exist outside of Pakistan.
    Very good that u informed us.
    Thanks to Allah I never spent my money on valve job and rings pistons change.
    They r available for various cars including Suzuki Nissan etc.
    The Toyota dealership says they dont keep parts for imported cars.
    While the dealership sells simple 2NZ-FE OEM valves for 16k in red & White box. I now doubt about their origin too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noomanghori View Post
    Very good that u informed us.
    Thanks to Allah I never spent my money on valve job and rings pistons change.
    They r available for various cars including Suzuki Nissan etc.
    The Toyota dealership says they dont keep parts for imported cars.

    Indus motors only sells parts for cars that they have sold or currently sell. They will not help you with any stupid weird pikachu car with a toyota badge on it.

    So I get that you simply believe in replace whole engine assembly rather than repair it?
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    Indus motors only sells parts for cars that they have sold or currently sell. They will not help you with any stupid weird pikachu car with a toyota badge on it.

    So I get that you simply believe in replace whole engine assembly rather than repair it?
    So far its serving me for 5 yrs and 90k km.
    Bought with great help from Sabir Bhai at North Karachi.
    He is making great generators with those engines.
    The Japanese engines are so clean that u cant believe they r ever used and in comparision 2 years old local engine is full of rust.
    He still talks about u & that Galant in which u swaped the worlds smallest narrow angle 2.0L V6.

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    ok boys... update

    Since my engine wont start, there is no way a computer scan for 'error codes' can be done.

    I found a decent mechanic in Defence Tauheed. He has experience with Toyota Indus as well. and services to many dimplomatic/embassy cars.

    Im going to start opening up the engine tomorw morning, will take pics and post as i go along.

    ANY LAST PEICE OF ADVICE BEFORE WE BEGING?

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    Did you take a quote from a Toyota 3S dealer what they would charge for the overhaul of the engine. If they quote slightly more than your mechanic then it's probably best to get this work done by them. However in your case this would mean towing the car to the nearest 3S dealer which i am not sure would be practical or not.
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    I checked up with Toyota Southern...

    Cost of Parts for Over hauling of Mark II = 200,000
    Labour Charges = 30,000
    Towing Charges = 5000-10000
    Total Approx = 250,000

    Time required = 22-30 days!!!!


    BASICALLY DAY LIGHT ROBBERY.... sorry I aint game, but still do comment.

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    Bro have u checked what went wrong with engine and what parts are required.

    These engines don't go dead suddenly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorsaint View Post
    I checked up with Toyota Southern...

    Cost of Parts for Over hauling of Mark II = 200,000
    Labour Charges = 30,000
    Towing Charges = 5000-10000
    Total Approx = 250,000

    Time required = 22-30 days!!!!


    BASICALLY DAY LIGHT ROBBERY.... sorry I aint game, but still do comment.
    What you can do is to arrange for the parts on your own and only pay for the labour. 22-30 days is a long time but if you negotiate with them/ consult another 3S dealer nearby that period can be reduced as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noomanghori View Post
    Bro have u checked what went wrong with engine and what parts are required.

    These engines don't go dead suddenly.
    There is a possibility that if you take the car to them, they might say that it is not the whole engine that needs to be rebuilt but something else that is causing the engine not to fire up. Use the help of a friend/relative for towing the car to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorsaint View Post
    ok boys... update

    Since my engine wont start, there is no way a computer scan for 'error codes' can be done.

    I found a decent mechanic in Defence Tauheed. He has experience with Toyota Indus as well. and services to many dimplomatic/embassy cars.

    Im going to start opening up the engine tomorw morning, will take pics and post as i go along.

    ANY LAST PEICE OF ADVICE BEFORE WE BEGING?
    Even if the car wont start - a proper equipped shop can check for problems if the engine is able to rotate with the starter, if its locked solid then there is no diagnosis need electrically as the engine is mechanically siezed.

    If its able to rotate, one can connect a multichannel scope and test for ignition signals, engine position signals and also injection sequence signals to see what is going on - if you keep on attempting to start for 30 second durations with a rest of 10 minutes between each 30 seconds the ECU can store a fault code in memory (like missing ignition feedback signal or missing crank sensor signal in toyota)

    a good multichannel scope can however test it live. But the technician should know what hes looking at.

    The price you mentioned on the dealership part is quite high in my opinion, shop around and inquire, also keep in mind dealerships in Pakistan are "parts fitters" at best, they rely on the apprentice technique by hiring fresh young minds and are forced to skin customers too.

    There are members on this forum who can sort of guide you in the correct direction. If I were living in Pakistan I would have tested your car for the issue.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Ok gents...

    The rebuild has started.

    The engine is on way to being opened. will update tonite along with details and pictures.

    Till now the comments of the mechanics are as under...

    1.) The main bigin did not get oil supply since the fuel pump failed. The water pump has also failed.

    2.) because the bigin stoped working the connector shaft got bent. this was diagnosed as the engine is NOT ROTATING. The engine is still being opened and the connector shaft is not out yet. however, the mechanic shoed me that when he was rotaing the connector rod, it was not doing a full rotation.

    3.) The mechanic has breifed me that the bores will broadened from its current ZERO size to 50 SIZE. this will be done in the lathe shop.... Is this normal procedure?? He claims that this is the way to go. He also said that the piston and bore now has more gap than required ( chaal ziyada aa gaye hey) therefore in order to remove this 'chaal' the bore will have to be made to fit 50 size pistons. Please comment.

    I am not familiar with any of this and Im trying to describe the position and the words of the mechanic the best way.

    Zulfiqar.... bro, there was no ignition at all which is why eror code was not possible. However the mechanic did try the procedure that u are recommending.

    Thanks ALL.

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