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Thread: Urgent help: Mark II Grande 2002-3 engine question

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    Default Urgent help: Mark II Grande 2002-3 engine question

    dear brothers,

    My Mark II Grande's engine has died... it needs to be opened. and Im confused.

    Some mechanics are telling me that just install new engine, others are telling me get the same engine fixed (over hauled)

    What to do? ( the cost considerations are more less the same.)


    What is the better option and why.... I appreciate all the help and coments in advance, i will be checking this every hr and will respond to any further questions required.

    engine is 2000 c.c nor 24ooo c.c.

    rgds

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    You mean the oil pump (not fuel pump) failure led to engine failure??

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    I still go with new engine... Hope you don't regret your decisio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorsaint View Post
    Ok gents...

    The rebuild has started.

    The engine is on way to being opened. will update tonite along with details and pictures.

    Till now the comments of the mechanics are as under...

    1.) The main bigin did not get oil supply since the fuel pump failed. The water pump has also failed.

    2.) because the bigin stoped working the connector shaft got bent. this was diagnosed as the engine is NOT ROTATING. The engine is still being opened and the connector shaft is not out yet. however, the mechanic shoed me that when he was rotaing the connector rod, it was not doing a full rotation.

    3.) The mechanic has breifed me that the bores will broadened from its current ZERO size to 50 SIZE. this will be done in the lathe shop.... Is this normal procedure?? He claims that this is the way to go. He also said that the piston and bore now has more gap than required ( chaal ziyada aa gaye hey) therefore in order to remove this 'chaal' the bore will have to be made to fit 50 size pistons. Please comment.

    I am not familiar with any of this and Im trying to describe the position and the words of the mechanic the best way.

    Zulfiqar.... bro, there was no ignition at all which is why eror code was not possible. However the mechanic did try the procedure that u are recommending.

    Thanks ALL.
    Bro change the engine u will still get good money from your old engine.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by warriorsaint View Post
    Ok gents...

    The rebuild has started.

    The engine is on way to being opened. will update tonite along with details and pictures.

    Till now the comments of the mechanics are as under...

    1.) The main bigin did not get oil supply since the fuel pump failed. The water pump has also failed.

    2.) because the bigin stoped working the connector shaft got bent. this was diagnosed as the engine is NOT ROTATING. The engine is still being opened and the connector shaft is not out yet. however, the mechanic shoed me that when he was rotaing the connector rod, it was not doing a full rotation.

    3.) The mechanic has breifed me that the bores will broadened from its current ZERO size to 50 SIZE. this will be done in the lathe shop.... Is this normal procedure?? He claims that this is the way to go. He also said that the piston and bore now has more gap than required ( chaal ziyada aa gaye hey) therefore in order to remove this 'chaal' the bore will have to be made to fit 50 size pistons. Please comment.

    I am not familiar with any of this and Im trying to describe the position and the words of the mechanic the best way.

    Zulfiqar.... bro, there was no ignition at all which is why eror code was not possible. However the mechanic did try the procedure that u are recommending.

    Thanks ALL.
    check the bore with a guage, and the piston skirts, dont rely on "chaal" alone. The con rods are no big deal, get a diff set, find out what killed the oil pump? no oil in sump? leaking pickup tube or sludge?

    There is a thing called buying a "khoka" in Karachi, it basically is the desi term of short block, you get a used engine block complete with oil pump, pistons, rods n crankshaft. Its a very cost effective solution during rebuild if lets say your crankshaft is shot. (blued etc)

    the big end bearings are the first to sieze in lack of oil pressure (you will have noticed the oil pressure warning lamp light up about 2 or 5 minutes before the engine locked up).

    I'll try to get you the torque specs of this engine specifically but in toyota generic bolts in aluminium engines are like this.

    any bolt with a 10mm spanner head is tightened to 80 in/lb
    any bolt with a 12mm spanner head is 22 ft/lb
    any bolt with a 14mm spanner head is 44 ft/lb

    any engine mount bolt going into the steel chassis of the car with a bracket is 65 lb/ft
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    There is a thing called buying a "khoka" in Karachi, it basically is the desi term of short block, you get a used engine block complete with oil pump, pistons, rods n crankshaft. Its a very cost effective solution during rebuild if lets say your crankshaft is shot. (blued etc)
    Please tell our friend here to get a long block and call it a day. He'd be able to buy two long blocks for the price of one overhaul.

    I know overhaul is the right thing to do, but a swap would get it DONE. And a swap would be more reliable than a local rebuild. He could end up having all kind of issues, and swapping it in the end.
    It's one very tough and dependable engine, it's not a 4AGE or DOHC VTEC, a swap should last some odd 3,00,000 kms- that isn't a bad compromise.

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    Sleeve/ Bores
    Urgent help Mark II Grande 20023 engine question -1544710

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    Tepits.... I dont know how the hell there is so much gunk.....
    Urgent help Mark II Grande 20023 engine question -1544711

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    Cam Shafts... all good
    Urgent help Mark II Grande 20023 engine question -1544712

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    Urgent help Mark II Grande 20023 engine question -1544713

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    Urgent help Mark II Grande 20023 engine question -1544714

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    THE PROBLEM!!!! One of the connector shafts is bent and badly broken... The rest will be checked throughly for any bent.. on the event of which will also be changed. HOW CAN I HAVE THE REST OF TEH 5 CONNECTOR SHAFTS BE CHECKED FOR 'BENT or TWIST"??? pls comment.

    Urgent help Mark II Grande 20023 engine question -1544715

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    Urgent help Mark II Grande 20023 engine question -1544716

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    Total Engine opened up.. seems so far so good. The Mechanic is still cleaning the engine, as its Filled with muck /slime / gunk. Then the lathe process will begin.
    Urgent help Mark II Grande 20023 engine question -1544717

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    @ capsat, @Xulfiqar and all others... comments at this stage boys?

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    doc tarzan ... bro yes apparently thats wat ive been told, that bad dirty oil was too thick to be pumped by the oil pump , and thats why it collaped, leading to everything else.

    looking at the oil and carbon inside the engine, I was amazed and ashamed as well... I have to admit , my ignorance about engines and lack of maintanance led to all this... and the 'do number' oil remains suspect

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    This picture is enough to support my side of the argument.
    Quote Originally Posted by warriorsaint View Post
    Urgent help Mark II Grande 20023 engine question -1544717

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    @ uiv

    bro... by bloc, if u mean a swap engine, then i cant get 2 engines for the price of over haul. Secondly, since i have already deciuded to rebuild bro, its not an option anymore. Hopefully I will get it rite, with u guys helping out.

    keep contributing and thanks

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    I see a lot of varnish buildup and and some sludge too, It seems that either your engine was leaking oil from the top somewhere or your PCV valve was blocked - or this car was used for very short journeys.

    The bent con rod is scrap, get a different one, The rest can be checked by a good machinist very easily on a con rod boring jig (salman engineering near radio pakistan)

    Also undo the VVTi gear and check for sludge in there, a lot of oil is moved in it and it can sieze too if sludge is let to rest in there. Its the same as any toyota VVTi cam actuator (I like to call it cherry blossom ki dibbi )

    please note that when installing make sure its tightened to 40 lb/ft in advance position (pin unlocked from hole) once tightened then rotate back and lock the pin back - if you tighten it in locked position there is a 50% chance the cam wont advance.

    Price out the parts and also short block, you need to buy some assembly lube and toyota engine sealant too. Does your mechanic have a torque wrench?? - if not then buy that too and consider it as a cost of parts (take it with you when the job is done).

    doesnt look too bad. Have the crank checked for true and measure the piston clearances - the standard allowed are 0.020mm to 0.041mm, max being 0.10mm - measure at skirt of piston at 90 degrees to small end aka gudgeon pin - meaning on the two skirts, about 45mm from top of piston (maening not the lower edge but a bit above) - use a bore gauge to measure the piston clearance and subtract to find clearance.

    I would have redone it with a short block or even just internals - recorrected to spec with new wear parts where necessary and be over with it.
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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    simply pay attention to what Xulfiqar has shared.... Torque wrench will play KEY role for reassembly - i can not add anything further, the engine is like what was done to a Toyota GLI
    - www.crackwheels.com - A skilled Dictator is much more beneficial to Country......than a Democracy of Ignorant people

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    hows your rebuilt toyo engine running?
    ZRS - Zulfiqar Racing Systems ..... - professionals at work - at crackwheels.com

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