Crescent Sighting Is Not Rocket Science

madhouse12 (madhouse12) 2010-09-16 08:50:49 +0500 #61

very nice and informative topic. isnt it surprising that the best astronomers of the country who have more than a fair idea of the moon's position on the horizon with their telescopes can not see it but in a nation of more than 170 million, about 19 people see it. also an interesting thing to note here is that since in KPK they started Shawwal a day earlier, it means that they will have one more shawwal day. this means that if shawwal is going to be 30 day month then according to these people it will be of 31 days. but they only care about the Eid months and to them it doesnt matter if rest of the months become of 31 days or more....

Ducati (Ducati) 2010-09-16 09:34:20 +0500 #62

@Cheers

You must have heard of Libra Bhai Saturn Walay?!

I didnt realize that Libra had become a celestial body

Please keep posting more threads on astronomy in Pakistan and in general as there is much to learn and this is such a fascinating subject

saadtn1 (saadtn1) 2010-09-16 12:39:20 +0500 #63

Tonight's moon captured by me I guess its 8th moon of shawal... going good so far

Cheers (Cheers) 2010-09-16 14:24:08 +0500 #64

Nice shot. Actually it's the Moon of the 7th. Remember, Shawwal's new Moon was at perigee (and its fastest orbital velocity)? That's why it has become 64% illuminated so quickly.

2(b): When New Moon Occurs At Perigee

The Moon's phase is increasing at its fastest now. If on a particular evening the crescent is not seen, it will be comparatively much fatter just 24 hours later. Thus, near perigee, the crescent of the first is comparatively thicker.

The Moon of Shawwal 1431AH was not only steeply inclined but was also at perigee. So it was very low in the horizon on 9th September and just 24 hours later it had rapidly thickened.

saadtn1 (saadtn1) 2010-09-16 14:25:53 +0500 #65

uhhh!!! Isn't it 8th moon? because its 7th shawal today!!!! 1st shawal moon is on 29th or 30th Ramadan!!!!

Cheers (Cheers) 2010-09-16 16:25:26 +0500 #66

It was 6th Shawwal before sunset on the 16th. After sunset it is still the 16th of the solar calendar, but now it is 7th Shawwal. 30th Ramazan was before sunset on the 10th. After sunset, it was 1st Shawwal.

The lunar date changes after sunset.

suzan225 (suzan225) 2010-09-17 04:05:22 +0500 #67

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Cheers (Cheers) 2010-09-18 04:16:42 +0500 #68

Two days ago, a Pakistani astronomer forwarded me a query from another guy. I was all smiles when I saw it.

Hello!
I want to confirm something about the moon of Eid-Ul-Fitr.I saw the moon on the day of Eid 11 Sep 2010 at 05 : 00 pm.The moon is like the moon of 3rd or 4th day of lunar month but this is the day of eid in other words this is the first day of lunar month shawal the moon should be looked like the moon of 2nd day.I have the opinion that 11 sep 2010 was not a day of Eid instead of this 10 sep 2010 was the day of eid.I want your reviews,opinion and confirmation about this.If you have any knowledge about the moons of 09,10,11 sep please share this and tell me that according to moon what was the correct date of Eid-Ul-Fitr.

Please reply me as early as possible.
I simply directed this guy to the "article" I originally wrote for PakWheels. Thank you PW.

c123pk (c123pk) 2010-09-18 05:30:04 +0500 #69

This thread has been stretched so much it now seems to be Rocket Science to me

Cheers (Cheers) 2010-09-19 05:30:43 +0500 #70

Then perhaps it should be "stretched" a bit more!

Because I'm afraid that although crescent sighting isn't rocket science, the science behind it isn't a piece of cake.

Cheers (Cheers) 2010-09-19 05:31:50 +0500 #71

Qouting DAWN News:

Ovais Mangalwala meets Mufti Muneeb-ur-Rehman of Royat-e-Hilal Commitee, Muhammad Riaz of Pakistan Met office, Molana Khair-ul-Bashr of Qasim Khan Mosque Peshawar and members of Karachi Astronomers Society to understand the moon sighting process and the controversy attached to it.

</object> Link.

We at Karachi Astronomers Society are not affiliated with DAWN News either.

Ovais bhai (the producer of the program) makes some astronomically incorrect conclusions at the end.

مگر پہلی کا چاند اتنی آسانی سے کہاں نظر آتا ہے؟ وہ تو اپنی تمام شرائط کے پورا ہونے پر پیدائش کے کئی گھنٹے بعد اور کبھی کبھی تو پیدائش کے اگلے دن . . .

As this thread shows, it is not always difficult to see the Moon of the first. In fact, most of the time it is easy.

دنیا کے صرف چند ممالک میں
اور وہ بھی صرف چند گھنٹوں کے لئے نظر آتا ہے.

This point Ovais bhai makes is not applicable to the Muslim world. In about 10 solar months out of 12, the Moon becomes actually visible at the same solar date from Indonesia to Morocco. A new Islamic month is started in certain places due to one reason or the other but not necessarily due to confirmed hilal sighting. This point in bold is a very subtle one, but is the root of the controversy of twin Eids (not only in Pakistan, but elsewhere too) that arises every year.

PS: The telescope you see in the video is standing next to me as I'm posting this.

Cheers (Cheers) 2010-09-22 22:58:21 +0500 #72

I hate to needlessly stretch a thread, but this one would be far from complete if we do not discuss full Moons.

We are used to "evaluating" the crescent at the beginning of the month, but most of us never pay heed to it when the Moon becomes full. Even though it is visible when conditions are less than optimal and, like another poster mentioned here, can often be used as a litmus test for the lunar date.

Did you see the (13th Shawwal's) Moon? It wasn't full. Experienced observers could discern this. The Moon that will Insha Allah rise tonight (23rd Sept/14th Shawwal) will be full. Not only will its appearance prove this, but its rising time will too.

Now, full Moon is a precisely known instant just like new Moon is. I can cite references for the time of this month's full Moon, but let us do it another way. We know that the Moon is full only when it is opposite the Sun. This means that a full Moon rises almost exactly when the Sun sets. If anyone is interested/doubtful, (s)he can go outdoors at sunset today and confirm that 14th Shawwal 1431 indeed coincides with a full Moon.

saadtn1 (saadtn1) 2010-09-24 12:35:37 +0500 #73

Thats a good news. So we celebrated Eid on the right day Hope that all conspiracy theorist get to know the reality...

Cheers (Cheers) 2010-10-18 17:43:32 +0500 #74

Often, I explicitly used the term "lunar crescent" instead of just "crescent". That's because the Moon is not the only crescent in our sky. We got clouded over here in southern Pakistan otherwise we were all set to photograph the pairing of two celestial crescents from Hingol last week.

This image was taken in Iran on 1st Zi'qad 1431 (9th October 2010). View the full sized image here to see the other crescent better.

Cheers (Cheers) 2010-10-19 14:51:05 +0500 #75

Shawwal 1430 (20th September 2009) crescent from Khuzdar, Balochistan:

By Shahbaz Durrani. Link to original image.

Cheers (Cheers) 2011-01-06 14:15:35 +0500 #76

Three of my friends and I were Alhamdulillah able to clearly see the slender lunar crescent of 1st Safar 1432 on 5th January 2011. Although there was rather thick smog on the horizon, fellow observer Ramiz Qureshi managed to take some photos - link.

See if you can locate the crescent (or more exactly, part of it) in the second photo.

Cheers (Cheers) 2011-01-07 03:03:11 +0500 #77

1st Safar 1432 crescent photographed by Dr. Yaqub (lovebikes). Taken at 06:37pm on 5th January 2010 from Bela. Unprocessed shot.

	[IMG]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5283/5331920012_0b8b83b310_z.jpg[/IMG]

It's pretty funny (as well as ironic and sad at the same time) that most of the time

when the crescent of the first is thin yet observable without optical aid, a large part of our general public does not bother to look or cannot see it (for instance, people in Karachi on 5th January).
when the crescent of the first is fat, most say "This moon is of the second. Aik roza khagaye/Eid khagaye!"

Please, no offense intended. This is sadly the way the affair currently is.

Cheers (Cheers) 2011-02-04 13:14:45 +0500 #78

The crescent of 1st Rabi-ul-Awwal 1432 (4th February 2011) sighted and photographed from North Nazimabad:

Full-sized image: link.

qwertypoiu (qwertypoiu) 2011-03-09 11:33:21 +0500 #79

https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/non-wheels-discussions/147095-crescent-sighting-not-rocket-science-2

and bango (and to all others too for that matter)... don't you ever think that since people from a specific region i.e. NWFP, and in NWFP itself of a certain ethnicity i.e. pashtuns have little to none representation over here on the forums, you can just about get away with any crap you churn out against them, or us..! not under my watch buddy... and shove that comment about losers up yours..

It's such a shame i've to use that kind of language, but since no one is here to rein in such a behaviour on PW, I have to resort to it.. and then that crap head is a mod too..

No hard feelings Cheers.. good on you.. and thanks for the time..

but I wonder why has this a$$-h0le's reply still not been deleted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bango
Its funny how a few nuts aren't bothered about the rest of the 10 months, but when its about the Ramadan and Zilhaj, they have to somehow disagree with the clan to show their existence. Attention deprived losers!

f'k**g coward...