Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[best.mission.joy]

Extreme load shedding is 3 hours of load shedding after every hour, or two hours of load shedding after every one hour of light, only under these circumstances your charging rate should be maximum allowable charging rate. Rest everything is ok and in Islamabad, one hour of load shedding after every three hours is not much that you should adjust the charging rate to its maximum capacity. 7 amperes of charging rate in your case is perfectly well.

Previously set cut of Voltage to 15Volts was an abuse on batteries and these sorts of thing kills the batteries very soon. Charging rate
earlier was also very high to 18 amperes and 16.60 amperes is still high.

Maximum charging rate for these batteries should never exceed 12 amperes at any stage may it be tickle charging?

Still you want to keep it high then set it at 9 amperes of charging rate for xp165 as amp hour rating is 120.

Battery low can be further adjusted to 10.3 Volts from 10.5V.

p.s: Mistakes in above picture: AMP-hr rating/10 = amperes, which is charging rate.

so 120/10 =12 amperes which in your case is the maximum allowable charging rate.

cut of voltage to 14 Volts is ok.

Hi Talha,
I will set the charging rate on 9 amp. Thanks for update of lower battery cut. I will get it set on 10.3 and upper cut to 14.2.
Many thanks Talha for superb and instant advice. You are great help. I am freelancer and I spend most time on pc. My life depends on ups. So when nobody was able to fix the ups. It was like my world coming down. Your article was ray of hope. I was so surprised, happy and relieved to get such fast and instant reply from author himself. My worries shifted to excitement of discovery. I will try my best to do same for others. Jazakallah

[best.mission.joy]

Problem located. The 2 of the batteries are at 11.80 volts when the ups is beeping critical and one of them is in between 10 to 10.2 volts.

issue is that this is a brand new ags battery, it has not been even a year since it has been purchased and setup. I believe the problem to be with bad electrolyte, as i can see some very small translucent solid particles when i open up the battery to look at it. This same thing happened with my last battery.

Another issue may be that my uncle was the one to fill up the batteries. he has a motto of "whats good in normal amounts is better in large amounts "So he makes his kids wear 3 layers of clothes in pakistan summers, and fills the ups batteries beyond the max point. This may not be the reason the battery died but it is likely the reason why they dont last as long.

So what can i do?
im thinking of completely dumping the electrolyte in all three batteries, and refilling/remaking them up to point with proper, high quality fluids. The batteries when we purchased them they were filled up with self made electrolyte from the ags shop at dha cng opposite k block lahore

from what ive picked up from this thread, right now i have to charge batteries fully. flush them, and load them up with new electrolyte. How much do i order from the pyro guys? do they even sell to lahore?
( i dont mind at all paying a little bit more if they are to be shipped to me, but i demand cash on delivery )

and also where can i find a hydrometer in lahore? i have a multimeter serving as a voltmeter and ammeter but i dont have a hydrometer.

our load shading routine is power goes after every hour, or MAYBE after every two hours. during summer.

Winter power goes twice a day for a hour each, sometimes not at all.

addendum=
I do have some relatives that can get me pyro electrolye from the twin cities, but i need to know how much my 3 batteries will need.
1x millat M100
2x AGS GL 100

Hi MatapatapAAA,

Be happy as you find yourself in good luck. Pyrochem is located in lahore Here are details:

PyroChem (Lahore)
Head Office: 042 -35839278.
Sales supervisor: Rehmaat Bahi # 0301-8405723.

Price quoted to me
Rs.930 for 12 Liter 1250 electrolyte. This is price of carton have 24 bottles. Each bottle of 500 ml.

Note:
Do ask for discount. Let us know, for how much you got it?

Market rate of carton is Rs.1200. Rs.50 per bottle as per Rehmat Bahi

Amount needed for xp165 Phoenix is 9 Liter as told by battery guy. Ask your battery dealer about quantity required by your battery.

Hydrometer:
You can easily get from any battery shop. It's really cheap and long lasting. I guess i got it for Rs.250 (not sure) four years back.

Note:
Remember new electrolyte will take 2 weeks to settle. Then Check the its specific gravity with hydrometer when ups is fully charged. If specific gravity is not 1250 by then it indicates problem with battery (losing its life) or ups settings.

[MatapatapAAA]

Hi MatapatapAAA,

Be happy as you find yourself in good luck. Pyrochem is located in lahore Here are details:

PyroChem (Lahore)
Head Office: 042 -35839278.
Sales supervisor: Rehmaat Bahi # 0301-8405723.

Price quoted to me
Rs.930 for 12 Liter 1250 electrolyte. This is price of carton have 24 bottles. Each bottle of 500 ml.

Note:
Do ask for discount. Let us know, for how much you got it?

Market rate of carton is Rs.1200. Rs.50 per bottle as per Rehmat Bahi

Amount needed for xp165 Phoenix is 9 Liter as told by battery guy. Ask your battery dealer about quantity required by your battery.

Hydrometer:
You can easily get from any battery shop. It's really cheap and long lasting. I guess i got it for Rs.250 (not sure) four years back.

Note:
Remember new electrolyte will take 2 weeks to settle. Then Check the its specific gravity with hydrometer when ups is fully charged. If specific gravity is not 1250 by then it indicates problem with battery (losing its life) or ups settings.

Thanks for the reply. Just to be absolutely clear with you guys,
i am to buy the pyro stuff
flush all three batteries after having them charged 100% by a dedicated battery charger guy( can anyone link me to the guide on how to flush properly)
fill up with pyro stuff ( will buy electrolyte bottles )
( do i have them re-charged at this point??? )
reconnect to ups, and check battery health via hydrometer after 2 weeks.

This will fix the bad electrolyte and all but will this fix the low voltage issue in one of the batteries? ( more likely then not i believe that one of the cells has gone bad, that is why im getting a lower then desired voltage, will doing all this bring the battery back up to running capacity?)

And one more question, what are your guys view on the AGS battery tonic in terms of quality? After i swap out the electrolyte, is it fine if i use this to keep batteries topped up?

[best.mission.joy]

Thanks for the reply. Just to be absolutely clear with you guys,
i am to buy the pyro stuff
flush all three batteries after having them charged 100% by a dedicated battery charger guy( can anyone link me to the guide on how to flush properly)
fill up with pyro stuff ( will buy electrolyte bottles )
( do i have them re-charged at this point??? )
reconnect to ups, and check battery health via hydrometer after 2 weeks.

This will fix the bad electrolyte and all but will this fix the low voltage issue in one of the batteries? ( more likely then not i believe that one of the cells has gone bad, that is why im getting a lower then desired voltage, will doing all this bring the battery back up to running capacity?)

And one more question, what are your guys view on the AGS battery tonic in terms of quality? After i swap out the electrolyte, is it fine if i use this to keep batteries topped up?

HOW TO PERFORM FLUSH by @talhawaleed
link: https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/electrical-wiring-battery-lights/153379-maintaining-ups-car-batteries#post2525873

Note: You can aslo find this topic at top of this page in post "Maintaining UPS/car batteries" by @talhawaleed. You got to read all three sub topics before performing flush.

WRONG FLUSH PROCEDURE AND PRACTICES
You may perform flush
MAIN REASON, LIGHT FLUSH IS PERFORMED.

Procedure which I follow is that I fully charge my batteries, then take the batteries outside, drained the electrolyte in proper sewerage line while I already have an access to new electrolyte which was prepared earlier before performing this procedure and have the batteries flushed it with tap water 5-6 times. Later put the battery in upside down position for 30 minutes before pouring new electrolyte back in.

---

Question For Expert: Where did you get the idea that battery need to be fully charged 100% by a dedicated battery charger guy? Full charging by UPS will be enough and necessary. But still I like to have expert opinion on that.

Next Step: Perform Flush as instructed
Fill up with Pyrochem, only fill till upper level indicated at side of battery. Electrolyte should always remain 1/8 inch lower than bottom vent well.
Connect battery with ups. Ups will recharge it.
check battery health via hydrometer after 2 weeks

Note: It's better that you check 3 variables of ups as well. Charging rate, battery high cutand battery low cut. If these are properly set and you perform the flush procedure right. Then battery will give best back time as per its health.

Regarding bring back life of cell, this procedure will do maximum good but can't bring to 100% life.

AGS battery tonic, if it's distilled and deionized water then use it for topping.

Questions for Experts:
1. Before flush do batteries need to be charged 100% by a dedicated battery charger guy?
2. How you rate AGS battery tonic in terms of quality for use of topping up battery when electrolyte level went down.

Thanks
Best Joy

[MatapatapAAA]

New update= systek guy dropped by ( that rhymes! i should be a rapper/poet)

He said ups was fine as i suspected, the batteries were mostly screwed, get them all changed ASAP because you may not be able to fetch a good price for them later and the bigger the better
Since we tried ags, and they did not turn out to be as good as the price indicated, i think 3x millat UPS185 ( i suppose they are deep cycle since they branded them for ups ) filled with pyro electrolyte should do well.

sigh my wallet is going to lose more then a few pounds now.

[MatapatapAAA]

Anyway, i arranged myself a hydrometer for 200 rs, and if all goes well with the warrenty claim etc, the batteries should be returned just fine and we will be replacing them with 3 exide 180 batteries , and filling them up with pyro instead of their junk.

[galant1]

@talhawaleed

Nice thread so far. It is happy to see that lay man here from this forum and from your awesome thread, grasping technical information easily.

The HOMAGE UPS have fixed parameters written on sticker- in my case MY HOMAGE UPS has fixed spec, 660watt, 5.1A etc which is best for slow charging my battery volta ns175.

I want to know is any way to alter the parameters of Homage UPS which I think if it do so then some abnormal behavior have seen and it affect the battery?

[talhawaleed]

HOW TO PERFORM FLUSH by @talhawaleed
link: https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/electrical-wiring-battery-lights/153379-maintaining-ups-car-batteries#post2525873

Note: You can aslo find this topic at top of this page in post "Maintaining UPS/car batteries" by @talhawaleed. You got to read all three sub topics before performing flush.

WRONG FLUSH PROCEDURE AND PRACTICES
You may perform flush
MAIN REASON, LIGHT FLUSH IS PERFORMED.

Procedure which I follow is that I fully charge my batteries, then take the batteries outside, drained the electrolyte in proper sewerage line while I already have an access to new electrolyte which was prepared earlier before performing this procedure and have the batteries flushed it with tap water 5-6 times. Later put the battery in upside down position for 30 minutes before pouring new electrolyte back in.

*****************************************************

Question For Expert: Where did you get the idea that battery need to be fully charged 100% by a dedicated battery charger guy? Full charging by UPS will be enough and necessary. But still I like to have expert opinion on that.

Next Step: Perform Flush as instructed
Fill up with Pyrochem, only fill till upper level indicated at side of battery. Electrolyte should always remain 1/8 inch lower than bottom vent well.
Connect battery with ups. Ups will recharge it.
check battery health via hydrometer after 2 weeks

Note: It's better that you check 3 variables of ups as well. Charging rate, battery high cutand battery low cut. If these are properly set and you perform the flush procedure right. Then battery will give best back time as per its health.

Regarding bring back life of cell, this procedure will do maximum good but can't bring to 100% life.

AGS battery tonic, if it's distilled and deionized water then use it for topping.

Questions for Experts:
1. Before flush do batteries need to be charged 100% by a dedicated battery charger guy?
2. How you rate AGS battery tonic in terms of quality for use of topping up battery when electrolyte level went down.

Thanks
Best Joy

Here is the short answer, your ups is a charging device here, no need to take it to the battery guy, let it charge on UPS. initially before I started this thread, I myself have spent some frustrated moments with UPS system and batteries. I did a lot of online reading and practically tried to handle my own system till i knew inside out of everything.

I read it, that batteries should never be kept in discharged state for longer, batteries plates are prone to get damaged on discharged battery if somehow if you needed to drain the electrolyte and refill new one. Level of electrolyte in system will increase once discharged batteries will be charged again which implied that your initial battery gravity adjustment may get disturbed if flush is performed on discharged battery. And over period of time, I have found all the above explanations as to be true. Hope, this must have answered your question.

As far as your second question is concerned, all batteries are more or less manufactured from same material, there is a tradeoff between deep cycle lead acid batteries and normal batteries, I don’t know if manufacturing process or quality control of one is better than another but one thing I can surely tell you is that one should always prefer a deep cycle batteries or batteries designed for UPS over the normal batteries due to thinker plate size as recommended for the application and right now, phoenix, ugs grade series is being manufactured specifically for ups applications.

[talhawaleed]

@talhawaleed

Nice thread so far. It is happy to see that lay man here from this forum and from your awesome thread, grasping technical information easily.

The HOMAGE UPS have fixed parameters written on sticker- in my case MY HOMAGE UPS has fixed spec, 660watt, 5.1A etc which is best for slow charging my battery volta ns175.

I want to know is any way to alter the parameters of Homage UPS which I think if it do so then some abnormal behavior have seen and it affect the battery?

Everything comes readjusted on these ups, you can verify this by taking amp-meter and voltmeter to take readings on these system to see if they are within specs. Further, I think that you cannot make adjustments on this system. which is kind of good as you don’t have to worry about many settings which are not adjusted on local ups. but care should be taken that you select the right batteries for this after reading the ups specs and finding out the charging rate, then calculating the amp-hr rating of battery needed for the application and buy what so ever is above that amp-hr rating calculated.

[talhawaleed]

New update= systek guy dropped by ( that rhymes! i should be a rapper/poet)

He said ups was fine as i suspected, the batteries were mostly screwed, get them all changed ASAP because you may not be able to fetch a good price for them later and the bigger the better
Since we tried ags, and they did not turn out to be as good as the price indicated, i think 3x millat UPS185 ( i suppose they are deep cycle since they branded them for ups ) filled with pyro electrolyte should do well.

sigh my wallet is going to lose more then a few pounds now.

try to buy pheonix ugs grade series as have been specifically manufactured for ups application, or for matter of fact any brand, which has a series developed for ups application. be very careful, that you know the charging rate of your ups and the minimum amp-hr rating's for the application

[talhawaleed]

Hi MatapatapAAA,

Be happy as you find yourself in good luck. Pyrochem is located in lahore Here are details:

PyroChem (Lahore)
Head Office: 042 -35839278.
Sales supervisor: Rehmaat Bahi # 0301-8405723.

Price quoted to me
Rs.930 for 12 Liter 1250 electrolyte. This is price of carton have 24 bottles. Each bottle of 500 ml.

Note:
Do ask for discount. Let us know, for how much you got it?

Market rate of carton is Rs.1200. Rs.50 per bottle as per Rehmat Bahi

Amount needed for xp165 Phoenix is 9 Liter as told by battery guy. Ask your battery dealer about quantity required by your battery.

Hydrometer:
You can easily get from any battery shop. It's really cheap and long lasting. I guess i got it for Rs.250 (not sure) four years back.

Note:
Remember new electrolyte will take 2 weeks to settle. Then Check the its specific gravity with hydrometer when ups is fully charged. If specific gravity is not 1250 by then it indicates problem with battery (losing its life) or ups settings.

i read somewhere that pryo chemical sells 30 Liter bottle of electrolyte for less then 1000rs, which i feel is a much better choice then buying bottles of 20-30 bottles of 500ml. kindly someone verify this by calling them and extra electrolyte can be saved for later use.

[galant1]

Everything comes readjusted on these ups, you can verify this by taking amp-meter and voltmeter to take readings on these system to see if they are within specs. Further, I think that you cannot make adjustments on this system. which is kind of good as you don’t have to worry about many settings which are not adjusted on local ups. but care should be taken that you select the right batteries for this after reading the ups specs and finding out the charging rate, then calculating the amp-hr rating of battery needed for the application and buy what so ever is above that amp-hr rating calculated.

I agree with you 100%. If any battery require 10A to charge the battery and ups is giving 5.1A to battery to charge which slow charging and best for battery. What do you think?

[talhawaleed]

thanks for your replay whiteangel.

Well the battery have been fully charged and discharged multiple times since Saturday. I have checked the gravity when it was fully charged and WAPDA was on and also during load sheding. At both times gravity was 1120.

Please suggest what should i do now. Should i replace the electrolyte?

Sorry brother I can be of little help to you.
Just tell me few things,
1) Frequency of load shedding in your area.
2) Kindly let me know about your batteries and model no, if you have any idea about the amp-hr ratings then that would be helpful
3) Kindly measure the charging rate for me
4) Kindly measure the cut off voltage for me, at which ups stops charging the batteries.
Ups setting is one of the major factors which helps the batteries shows her true gravity.

if necessary, send me a private message also.

[galant1]

@talhawaleed

I agree with you 100%. If any battery require 10A to charge the battery and ups is giving 5.1A to battery to charge which slow charging and best for battery. What do you think?

[talhawaleed]

@talhawaleed

I agree with you 100%. If any battery require 10A to charge the battery and ups is giving 5.1A to battery to charge which slow charging and best for battery. What do you think?

If amp-hr rating is 100 and maximum allowable charging rate is 10 amperes then setting it at 5 amperes won’t be that slow of charging. It may take two hours to charge your batteries and in long run, it will be more beneficial. Charging rate should only be increased to its maximum allowable capacity if load shedding is very frequent such as after every hour for next three hours or after every alternate hour. Soon as this phase is over, it should be brought back to a lower value.

[nasirjavaid]

i read somewhere that pryo chemical sells 30 Liter bottle of electrolyte for less then 1000rs, which i feel is a much better choice then buying bottles of 20-30 bottles of 500ml. kindly someone verify this by calling them and extra electrolyte can be saved for later use.

I remember someone from this thread or Ishtiaq bro's thread already bought 30 Liter can of pyro around 800 Rs.

[wasim625]

I remember someone from this thread or Ishtiaq bro's thread already bought 30 Liter can of pyro around 800 Rs.

Yup. That was mee [emoji14]

[MatapatapAAA]

Here is the short answer, your ups is a charging device here, no need to take it to the battery guy, let it charge on UPS. initially before I started this thread, I myself have spent some frustrated moments with UPS system and batteries. I did a lot of online reading and practically tried to handle my own system till i knew inside out of everything.

I read it, that batteries should never be kept in discharged state for longer, batteries plates are prone to get damaged on discharged battery if somehow if you needed to drain the electrolyte and refill new one. Level of electrolyte in system will increase once discharged batteries will be charged again which implied that your initial battery gravity adjustment may get disturbed if flush is performed on discharged battery. And over period of time, I have found all the above explanations as to be true. Hope, this must have answered your question.

As far as your second question is concerned, all batteries are more or less manufactured from same material, there is a tradeoff between deep cycle lead acid batteries and normal batteries, I don?t know if manufacturing process or quality control of one is better than another but one thing I can surely tell you is that one should always prefer a deep cycle batteries or batteries designed for UPS over the normal batteries due to thinker plate size as recommended for the application and right now, phoenix, ugs grade series is being manufactured specifically for ups applications.

The large capacity pheonix batteries are marginally cheaper then the exide etc ones, but there is kind of a fear that this same issue will crop up again, as the phenoix batteries have a 6 month warranty( dident actually ask, was just written on the box) instead of 12 month

[MatapatapAAA]

Well, after a bit more chitchat, im due to pick up my hydrometer today.
And more importantly out of the 3 batteries both of the ags ones have what seems to be a gray deposit on the bottom of the caps......
Dont know what i could mean, but i do know it was not normal, as the other ones ive had never had this deposit. so i cleaned it all off and replaced the caps.

will be dropping by the ags guy and asking him look them over, if all goes well the ags dude will agree to change them out under warrenty, and ill replace them with something deep cycle.

probably exide or Phoenix

[nasirjavaid]

Yup. That was mee [emoji14]

aaw...yes ...... Thanks for showing up!