Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[nasirjavaid]

Well, after a bit more chitchat, im due to pick up my hydrometer today.
And more importantly out of the 3 batteries both of the ags ones have what seems to be a gray deposit on the bottom of the caps......
Dont know what i could mean, but i do know it was not normal, as the other ones ive had never had this deposit. so i cleaned it all off and replaced the caps.

will be dropping by the ags guy and asking him look them over, if all goes well the ags dude will agree to change them out under warrenty, and ill replace them with something deep cycle.

probably exide or Phoenix

hmmmm. Gray deposit means batteries are being over charged. Exide has bad reputation.

[MatapatapAAA]

hmmmm. Gray deposit means batteries are being over charged. Exide has bad reputation.

Other then the grey deposit, are there any other pieces of evidence that the batteries are being over-charged?

[HellsGuardian]

Other then the grey deposit, are there any other pieces of evidence that the batteries are being over-charged?

do they batteries feel warm to touch? (place hand on side wall while ups is charging) also check if side wall is bulging out

[MatapatapAAA]

do they batteries feel warm to touch? (place hand on side wall while ups is charging) also check if side wall is bulging out

The batteries are not warm at all and visibly it does not look like the walls are bulging out at all but when it is felt by hand you can ever so slightly feel the cell walls expanding, i.e you can notice the cell wall inbetween the cells by running your hand carefully along the side.
But you really have to pay attention to feel it

[waqar19]

@talhawaleed
facing voltage drop problem again.
but this time i bought new homage ups and new ags 132 battery.
took extreme care about initial run.
load is 150watt. ups beeps and turn off after 30 minutes.
Also tell me how to do warranty claim.battery is under 1 month.

[talhawaleed]

@talhawaleed
facing voltage drop problem again.
but this time i bought new homage ups and new ags 132 battery.
took extreme care about initial run.
load is 150watt. ups beeps and turn off after 30 minutes.
Also tell me how to do warranty claim.battery is under 1 month.

Homage starts charging the battery at fixed 10-12 amperes, AGS 132 has an amp-hr rating of 103 so already, and your system is operating at bottle neck settings or is out of specs by few amperes of charging. So it maybe combination of bad electrolyte and very fast charging rate. Verify the charging rate and make sure that least, it’s not set to 20amperes option.

Mostly I recommend 150-160 amp-hr rating of batteries along with imported ups, that’s why I wrote above that its important to read you’re your ups specification before selecting batteries for it as charging rate on these ups cannot be adjusted.

So likely reason: very fast charging and electrolyte quality.

if you have understood your mistake, I have a solution for you, which I will tell you later.

[waqar19]

@talhawaleed
whats the solution now?

[best.mission.joy]

Hi Talha,

I was away for 2 days. Just called Pyrochem. You are absolutely right. It comes in 30 Kg can for just Rs.750, cheaper than bottle. I asked for other packing variation packing as well. But Electrolyte comes in only 2 packing. 500 ml bottle and 30 Kg can.
@talhawaleed You bought sulphric acid for Rs.400, right. How much litre electrolyte you produced, any rough idea?

Best Joy

[best.mission.joy]

i read somewhere that pryo chemical sells 30 Liter bottle of electrolyte for less then 1000rs, which i feel is a much better choice then buying bottles of 20-30 bottles of 500ml. kindly someone verify this by calling them and extra electrolyte can be saved for later use.

Hi Talha,

I was away for 2 days. Just called Pyrochem. You are absolutely right. It comes in 30 Kg can for just Rs.750, cheaper than bottle. I asked for other packing variation packing as well. Electrolyte comes in only 2 packing. 1. 500 ml bottle ( One Carton cost Rs.930 which Contains 12 litre ( 24 bottles of 500ml) )
2. 30 Kg can ( Cost Rs.750)

@talhawaleed How much sulphric acid you bought for Rs.400?

Best Joy

[MatapatapAAA]

Homage starts charging the battery at fixed 10-12 amperes, AGS 132 has an amp-hr rating of 103 so already, and your system is operating at bottle neck settings or is out of specs by few amperes of charging. So it maybe combination of bad electrolyte and very fast charging rate. Verify the charging rate and make sure that least, it?s not set to 20amperes option.

Mostly I recommend 150-160 amp-hr rating of batteries along with imported ups, that?s why I wrote above that its important to read you?re your ups specification before selecting batteries for it as charging rate on these ups cannot be adjusted.

So likely reason: very fast charging and electrolyte quality.

if you have understood your mistake, I have a solution for you, which I will tell you later.

Where exactly can i find this spec on my systek ups? Its completely based on a AVR microcontroller, so no modding settings.
What is it listed as ( name of spec ) and is it in the usual spec sheets or do i have to call the company and ask?

also can you define the relationship ( ideal ) between charging current and battery size in amp-hrs?

[best.mission.joy]

Where exactly can i find this spec on my systek ups? Its completely based on a AVR microcontroller, so no modding settings.
What is it listed as ( name of spec ) and is it in the usual spec sheets or do i have to call the company and ask?

also can you define the relationship ( ideal ) between charging current and battery size in amp-hrs?

Hi @matapatapaaa,

Call company or best way to find specs is to get it checked by any electrician guy who knows ups. It's very easy. Ask the guy to show you each reading. Note them down and paste it to your ups.

Specs to check:
i. Battery upper cut ( cut off ): 14.2 to 14.4 volt ( at this point ups stop charging)
ii. Battery lower cut: 10.3 to 10.5 volt ( at this point ups tripp and shut down )
iii. Relationship ( ideal ) between charging current and battery size in amp-hrs: 1st Find amp hour of your battery through battery specs.
Rule of thumb for max Charging current = Amp hour / 10
e,g if your battery is 120 amp Hour then
120/10=12 Amp is your max charging rate. If you over 12 amp it will be over charging. Set your charging rate to 7. But if your battery don't charge fully before entering next load shedding cycle ( situation call under charging ) then you got to increase it to the point where it charge fully.
Best way is to get deep cycle batteries ( or batteries designed for ups ) with high amp hour ( so your battery charge fully at less than max rate) which will cost you in start. But your batteries will last more than 3 years if keep a check on them and at least flush them once annually.
@talhawaleed kindly add if any thing missing.

Best Joy

[talhawaleed]

Hi Talha,

I was away for 2 days. Just called Pyrochem. You are absolutely right. It comes in 30 Kg can for just Rs.750, cheaper than bottle. I asked for other packing variation packing as well. Electrolyte comes in only 2 packing. 1. 500 ml bottle ( One Carton cost Rs.930 which Contains 12 litre ( 24 bottles of 500ml) )
2. 30 Kg can ( Cost Rs.750)

@talhawaleed How much sulphric acid you bought for Rs.400?

Best Joy

This is a good price,

As you can imagine that I buy one drum (24 liters) of sulfuric acid for around 900Rs, then I have to buy de-ionized water separately from source in Islamabad as mentioned in thread for around @ 9Rs/Liter, here I buy large quantity of around 80-90 liters de-ionized water so that I don’t have to worry about for rest of the reason. Considering the pain/danger you have to go through in preparing the electrolyte, I feel that 30Kg option from pryo chemicals is a good option.

P.S: prices of sulfuric acid has changed a lot in past one to two years.

[talhawaleed]

Hi @MatapatapAAA,

Call company or best way to find specs is to get it checked by any electrician guy who knows ups. It's very easy. Ask the guy to show you each reading. Note them down and paste it to your ups.

Specs to check:
i. Battery upper cut ( cut off ): 14.2 to 14.4 volt ( at this point ups stop charging)
ii. Battery lower cut: 10.3 to 10.5 volt ( at this point ups tripp and shut down )
iii. Relationship ( ideal ) between charging current and battery size in amp-hrs: 1st Find amp hour of your battery through battery specs.
Rule of thumb for max Charging current = Amp hour / 10
e,g if your battery is 120 amp Hour then
120/10=12 Amp is your max charging rate. If you over 12 amp it will be over charging. Set your charging rate to 7. But if your battery don't charge fully before entering next load shedding cycle ( situation call under charging ) then you got to increase it to the point where it charge fully.
Best way is to get deep cycle batteries ( or batteries designed for ups ) with high amp hour ( so your battery charge fully at less than max rate) which will cost you in start. But your batteries will last more than 3 years if keep a check on them and at least flush them once annually.
@talhawaleed kindly add if any thing missing.

Best Joy

Very well explained. flush can be delayed to two years or once you feel that backup time is dropping provided if good electrolyte was used in start.

[talhawaleed]

@talhawaleed
whats the solution now?

Buy another battery of same amp-hr capacity and attach it in parallel configuration. I hope, you know what a parallel configuration is. Since, you live in Lahore so also buy electrolyte from pryo chemicals and pour it in both the batteries.
I have two 160-amp-hr batteries connected in series with ups and I have never exceeded the charging rate beyond 10 amperes and never ever experienced any issues. Load shedding is on extreme these days, but system very well copes up with high demand.
10 amperes is a very good charging rate.
P.S: you will find further explanation under the last heading of main thread, this will clear your confusion as why I suggested you to connect a battery in parallel.
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 12 VOLT UPS AND 24 VOLT UPS:

MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE CHARGING RATE: A LITTLE EXPLANATION

Maximum allowable charging rate does not says that you should charge your battery at that rate, no matter what happens, you should not exceed this limit. There is a trade off, first try to keep the charging rate to half of maximum allowable charging rate, then see your load shedding schedule and try to determine if it charges the battery before next cycle of load shedding or not. If not then slightly increase the charging rate and keep doing it till it serves your purpose. But never cross maximum allowable charging rate.

[waqar19]

Buy another battery of same amp-hr capacity and attach it in parallel configuration. I hope, you know what a parallel configuration is. Since, you live in Lahore so also buy electrolyte from pryo chemicals and pour it in both the batteries.
I have two 160-amp-hr batteries connected in series with ups and I have never exceeded the charging rate beyond 10 amperes and never ever experienced any issues. Load shedding is on extreme these days, but system very well copes up with high demand.
10 amperes is a very good charging rate.
P.S: you will find further explanation under the last heading of main thread, this will clear your confusion as why I suggested you to connect a battery in parallel.
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 12 VOLT UPS AND 24 VOLT UPS:

MAXIMUM ALLOWABLE CHARGING RATE: A LITTLE EXPLANATION

Maximum allowable charging rate does not says that you should charge your battery at that rate, no matter what happens, you should not exceed this limit. There is a trade off, first try to keep the charging rate to half of maximum allowable charging rate, then see your load shedding schedule and try to determine if it charges the battery before next cycle of load shedding or not. If not then slightly increase the charging rate and keep doing it till it serves your purpose. But never cross maximum allowable charging rate.

Luckily i got free replacement under warranty claim
2nd cell from negative side was short.

[MatapatapAAA]

Another thing, when you get the batteries brand new, and fill em with pyro magic elixir
Then the ups guy who charges your batteries to full does so with the batteriy caps completely open, allowing dust, dirt and whatnot free access. I realized this after a trip to the nearby battery dude, so does this practice negate the value of getting good electrolyte put in, as its going to be dirty anyway? Or do i just ask him to keep the caps closed ( god knows why he keeps them open anyway )

[asjdsm]

This is a good price,

As you can imagine that I buy one drum (24 liters) of sulfuric acid for around 900Rs, then I have to buy de-ionized water separately from source in Islamabad as mentioned in thread for around @ 9Rs/Liter, here I buy large quantity of around 80-90 liters de-ionized water so that I don?t have to worry about for rest of the reason. Considering the pain/danger you have to go through in preparing the electrolyte, I feel that 30Kg option from pryo chemicals is a good option.

P.S: prices of sulfuric acid has changed a lot in past one to two years.

Can you help me with getting the sulphuric Acid. I need it for one 215 ah phoenix battery.
( I will buy it when I get hold of electrolyte. Unfortunately pyro is not available in islamabad. And i found only one shop willing to sell a whole 30litre of sulphuric Acid can. And i cannot bring it to home on bike and taxi charges huge karaya.) due to this reason I am still using 175ah battery whose capacity is reduced to 20ah one. As few cells are dead..

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[margallar]

I think you should be able to get ready made electrolyte, in branded plastic bottles. There was this 'fiamm' brand electrolyte that my elder brother arranged.

[whiteangel]

Can you help me with getting the sulphuric Acid. I need it for one 215 ah phoenix battery.
( I will buy it when I get hold of electrolyte. Unfortunately pyro is not available in islamabad. And i found only one shop willing to sell a whole 30litre of sulphuric Acid can. And i cannot bring it to home on bike and taxi charges huge karaya.) due to this reason I am still using 175ah battery whose capacity is reduced to 20ah one. As few cells are dead..
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

It's better to take distilled water to the battery guy and ask him to prepare electrolyte using the distilled water. He will do it for you and charges would be nominal.

[omer.s]

My two year old osaka ips 1100 charging continously on mercury radiant 2000 inverter and becomes hot and bubbling...backup is good still now 4 fans 5 energy savers used for 2 hours no low battery beep or any indication ...and each cell has gravity of 1225-1250 while charging and same ratings when i unplug the wires and give rest to batteries for cool down...and i always used ags battery tonic for topping up and my batteries never faced a heart attack of low water levels
what will be the problem...plz help
And one thing battery charging is fix at 10 amps