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Thread: Issues with 69 Beetle (For FEDD)

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    Default Issues with 69 Beetle (For FEDD)

    Salaams to all at PW.

    I would take the liberty of copy and pasting the problem faced by a fellow Pakwheeler who has purchased a 69 bug recently in Lahore. (see the topic @https://www.pakwheels.com/forumreply.asp?TopicID=24201&ForumID=1 )

    Here is the problem:

    Quote:

    Since ur knowledge about VW Beetle's is pretty good MashAllah... I want some help from you. I am facing few problems in it and I hope you will help me fixing it. As I don't have that much professional knowlegde like you have...

    Firstly when I accelerate it in 1st shift, it starts missing. Then I have to shift for second, same thing happens until i reach the forth gear.

    Secondly when i start it in the morning (Cooled engine). It starts easily but when the engine get a bit hot, the starting problem occurs and I have to wait for few moments

    I hope I won't take your much time... waiting for reply... You can reply at my topic on PakWheels if you want...

    Adios!

    End quote.
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    And now heres the solution:

    Well Fedd has asked me a question and at the same time provided the answers too.

    I can safely say that this particular engine was fiddled around by either a very incompetent mechanic or someone who wanted to experiment. It’s a miracle that VW engines run with such a lot of things wrong with them. Had this been some other car it wont even have started let alone run. Ok enough f my babbling.


    Please take a look at the engine compartment picture. There is so much wrong there. Good news is it looks not too hard to reverse. I will just label the pic provided by fedd in his topic.



    Issues with 69 Beetle For FEDD -655830
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    Just a bit of orientation of the engine compartment. The VW engine has four cylinders arranged in two opposing pairs in a flat plane. I have numbered the cylinder just like VW does. In fact if you look at the sheet metal in the engine the numbers are stamped there.

    The roundish thing with the five thick wires sticking out is the distributor. Its function is to DISTRIBUTE the spark provided by the ignition coil (a step up transformer) to the appropriate cylinder’s sparkplug at the right time. Repeat…..appropriate cylinder at the right time.

    This is exactly where our first major problem lies. The wires are all in the wrong places!! In fact wire marked a should go to cylin 1, b to 4, c to 3 and d to 4. That is the ‘firing order’ of the engine 1-4-3-2. Its written on the base of the generator stand too.

    If we look carefully wire a is feeding cylin 3 or 4 and so on and so forth. So the wires are all in the wrong places!!
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    storm your dept
    I'm a freak who lost his mind in the busy world of today and takes his frustration by being funny with others

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    Second issue to resolve. The ignition timing is what we call too ‘retarded’. If the 10mm nut (marked in pic) is loosened , we can rotate the distributor clockwise or anti clockwise to retard or advance the timing respectively. In Fedds car it is WAY too retarded ie turned clockwise. Heres a pic of the engine bay of one of 68 bugs. Note roughly how the distributor sits. Use the Vacuum advance unit (that silver biscuit like thingy on the side of the distributor) as reference. Also note the positions of the wires.

    The timing must be set after the gap of the distributor points is set to the specs.
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    Issues with 69 Beetle For FEDD -655835
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    Third issue to resolve. The piping for the Vacuum advance unit to the carburetor is missing. This must be in place so the timing is automatically advanced when the bug is driven at high speeds. I have labeled the vac advance unit as X here. The small pipe on the carburetor where the pipe is supposed to connect is marked y.


    Issues with 69 Beetle For FEDD -655836
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    I am fairly confident that if these three issues are tackled and the timing set properly the problems would be resolved. Provided this engine was not recently rebuilt as it raises the doubt that some parts were not put together right in the engine itself. Would not go into the detail now as it would not make much sense to most readers.
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    But there are other issues to take care of too. The aftermarket generator is a recipe for disaster. Look again at the pic of the engine. Note that the area of contact of the belt is reduced from and upside down U (seen in the 68s engine) to just a fraction in the 69s.


    Issues with 69 Beetle For FEDD -655837


    Issues with 69 Beetle For FEDD -655838
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    This prevents the pulley to run at good speed. And this is driving the fan inside the black fanshroud in the background. The fan is the prime source of cooling in the VW engine. So we can expect a hot engine in this situation.

    The solution to this problem is to get a second hand VW generator in good condition to eliminate the mess. Its better to fit an Alternator as it has a greater power output and thus charges the battery better.

    Let me know if you are unable to get one and I can tell you a couple of things to make your present setup a little bit better. But that would be only till you find another gen/alt.

    Also check out this link as it would give you a good insight on overheating problems.

    https://www.pakwheels.com/forumreply_az_TopicID!19528~ForumID!24~pw.html
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    I have other suggestions for you Fedd. But these must be done after the issues above are taken care of.

    1. Buy new spark plugs (Bosch brand)

    2. New point and condenser (Bosch again)

    3. Get a distributor rotor IF the present is worn.

    4. Get a distributor cap IF the one u have is worn.

    5. New plug wires. The ones in the car LOOK ok but you cant be sure. Its best to get a new set. Buy from a VW only dealer and always go for the original ones complete with the end caps etc.

    6. Get Piping for Vacuum advance unit. Buy the original pipe only.

    7. Get original, repeat ORIGINAL pipe for fuel.

    8. Get new fuel filter like the one you already have but place it before the fuel pump and away from all wires. Your present setup is another sure recipe for disaster. It’s a FIRE HAZARD. ( I will someday cover that topic in detail).

    9. Get a new ignition coil. Yours may be good after all but looks pretty used up. Buy a good Japanese one if you are short on cash. Otherwise go for the Bosch one.
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    I think I have covered about everything. I hope you have followed the explanation. I tried to simplify but understand it could sound like Greek to a newbie. So don’t hesitate to ask any questions or ask for clarification.

    So with the knowledge of whats wrong with the engine I hope you are better armed to keep an eagles eye on your mechanic and judge if he is on the right track. Go to a VW only mechanic I must tell you. This is ESSENTIAL!!!

    Best of luck with your bug!!!

    Regards to all.
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    Excellent thats what should be starting point and if the problem persists then perhaps the valves are the culprit.... fedd may need to set the rockers right
    Matchles G3L 1941, Triumph TRW 1951, Matchless G3LS 1952, Triumph T 100S 1968, Matchless G2 1958, BSA B-31 1952.......... I am insane!

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    Really Awesome Tips.
    Keep up the good work Asad.
    If you walk away from your car and don't look back, you have bought the wrong car.

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    @ AsadIshaque

    Oh brother reading all that, now I have decided that next car I gonna buy will be a Beetle. Was so much scared fo those issues of the bug that till now I have avoided it (though I love that car)

    Thank you very much for the useful info.
    "Never drive faster than your Guardian Angel can fly."

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    Thanks to all for appreciating.

    I hope Fedd has read this topic and got some orientation.

    @ razaksyed

    I am fairly confident that most if not all of the current problems would be solved just by following the tips.

    But the rockers must be set as it is after all part of a proper tune up job. Just a reminder they must be set with the engine DEAD cold ie left overnight.


    @ Xain

    Thanks. I must complain that you did not post pics of your 74s engine bay as I requested in your topic of overheating engine. Hope you can do it soon. And above all hope your bug is running sweetly.

    @ TM

    I would be a happy man if I know I have recruited one more lover for these old bugs!!!

    Most old beetles earn bad reputation because they are tampered with, abused neglected and what not. We have a classic case here to see for ourselves. But its a big thumbs up for the humble bug that it is still running with all these mess ups.

    Regards.
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    my dear asadishtiaq,
    assalam u alaikum,
    pl dont minde, i want to make u understand a few thing u mentioned about mr fedds beetle engine,
    i am agree with u about plug cabels possition, firing order etc, but i want to correct a few things.
    1, if u place all the plug cabels in wrong place its not possibel top start the engine, if u interchange two of them u may get start but ur engine fires and u engine runs without any pick contineous firing,
    its impossobel to place the distributer in a wrong way. u have definately examined the distributers bottom seat.
    if u move ur engines main pully clockwise til u get cut mark onthe pully aligned with the mark on engine base,losen 10 mm screw which secure ditributer at his place, remove distributer cap and rotate ditributer til the rotar points towards the cut mark on the distributer.
    this cut mark possition shows the possition of plug no:1
    taking this cut mark as a rerference u can place ur plug cabels in right firing order as u mentioned 1, 4, 3, 2 counting clockwise while u are standing behind the motor.
    pl note a point that engine main pully rotate two times while ditributer rotate once simutaniouslyat the sametime.
    as for as bro fedds beetle is concerned, u may be confused to see the possition of vacuum advance unit, thats why u may have missunderstood the popssition of plug cabels.
    now i tell u atru story. now adays i own three beetles, the one is 72 super 1303s and two other 1200, 64 model
    one of them with 1600 motor.
    two of them has the vacuum advance unit just in front of u when u look engine bay while standing behind the engine, yhe third one look exactly like mr fedds beetle , i took the engine of mentioned out to change the clutch , and to get a few other things rep, as engine was out side i removed most of the things. to get them cleane, painting etc, after placing the engine. i put the distributer in place antried to placesuch as vacuum advane unit in front of engine like other ( noraml ). least bothering about the alighnment of cut mark for plug nr 1.
    the resulution of problems u mentioned, i am 100% agree with u. mr fedd needs a compitent mech and a good advise of u ppl. in addition he needs valve adjustment and a proper tuning,
    her are a few important thigs to note about ignition timings.
    beetles 1954 through 1965 =10 degree BTDC ( before top dead center )
    beetles 1966 and 1967 with engine number begining with FO or HO =7-5 degree BTDC
    beetle 1967 through 1970 models wioth eng nr begining with H5 and fuel injected models with automatic shift=0 degree TDC
    August 1970 through spring 1973 carburated models=5 degree ATDC ( after top dead center ).
    spring 1973 and 1974 =7-5 BTDC

    as for as his starting problem while engine is warm concerned, i am sure its a petrole problem there is a need of carborator adjustment,

    i think its too much, u may get bore. pl dont mind all this. u may knew all this rather much more. u ppl in Pakistan should never be worried about beetles as long u have the king of beetles " STORM "
    take care.
    allah hafiz

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    Khanji bro,

    No I dont mind your comments at all. Rather I am most thrilled to hear from someone who is ready to go into the depths of the workings of the VW engine. Its a refreshing change from the 'what color my beetle should be' or such lesser issues. And I did not get bored reading through, though I wish the text had been broken down into paragraphs.

    I think I will have to agree with your observation that the cables are in fact at least firing in the order of 1-4-3-2. Lets give the benefit of doubt to that as the wires do SEEM to be going in the correct directions.

    But please take a look at the pic where I have labelled the wires from a to d. I am sure you will agree that when its time to fire cylinder number 1 as far as the engine is concerned, the distibutor does fire to cyl 1 BUT from position d and not a as its supposed to.

    Which brings us to the issue of cyl no 3. Cyl no 3 MUST recieve its spark from point c labelled on the cap. In Fedds bug, it recieves from point no b. The reason for this is that the cam operating the points for cyl 3 is a bit less in height as compared to the other three. This makes cylin no 3 run a bit in retard as compared to the rest of the three cylinders. VW had this as cylin no 3 sits underneath the oil cooler which blocks off the air from the fan plus whatever air reaches it is heated by the oil cooler dissipating its heat.

    So that would be a cause of overheating. I think you should also rectify this on the beetle you have as it may cause valves to burn/fail in Cyl 3 of your bug unless its the later 'doghouse' style.

    Its interesting to know about the beetles you own. Do you have them in Norway or back home in Pakistan??

    On the subject of wrongly fit distributors, I think you will agree its possible to fit a distributor 180 degrees off. Plus on a more serious note its possible to fit the distributor drive shaft in a wrong position while the engine is assembled during a rebuild. I am hoping that is not the case here so did not go into these details initially.

    I must commend you on your vivid description of timing the engine. I had purposely left that out as i dont expect Fedd or any first timer to become a weekend mechanic overnight.

    The engine codes you have provided may not hold good for us. Fedd would probably have an E or F serial engine in his bug.

    About the WARM startup probs, I cant imagine what could be wrong with the carb. Or are you thinking in the direction of vapour lock???


    I look forward to hearing from you soon. And I would love to see what Storm has to chip in to this issue.

    Best regards.
    If there are no Beetles in heaven, Im not going!!!

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    Essential information:



    Issues with 69 Beetle For FEDD -656269


    Issues with 69 Beetle For FEDD -656270


    Issues with 69 Beetle For FEDD -656271


    Issues with 69 Beetle For FEDD -656272


    Issues with 69 Beetle For FEDD -656273
    1. A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, 2. Resale wont save your life in an accident, 3. Genius has limits, stupidity has none, 4. Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level & beat you with experience, 5. Growing old beats the alternative -- dying young! 6. انّا للہ و انّا الیہ راجعون

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    If it isn't clear enough just send me an email and i'll send them again (full sized)
    1. A car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, 2. Resale wont save your life in an accident, 3. Genius has limits, stupidity has none, 4. Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level & beat you with experience, 5. Growing old beats the alternative -- dying young! 6. انّا للہ و انّا الیہ راجعون

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