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Thread: Engine differences: Corolla, Civic, Sunny, Lancer.

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    Default Engine differences: Corolla, Civic, Sunny, Lancer.

    Dear Fellows,

    I am using Nissan Sunny 2005. I just wanted to know what kind of ‘differences’ are there among the ‘engine technologies’ of Corolla, Civic, Sunny and Lancer (please take into account all the latest models present on the roads of Pakistan only). Also, what advantages/disadvantages do we get in these cars only 'engine-wise' when we consider the following factors;

    1. Pick or Acceleration (which will go faster).
    2. Technology (which one is advanced/obsolete)
    3. Fuel economy.
    4. Which car can be declared as is ‘simply the best’ (only engine-wise).

    Please don’t compare the whole cars… I just want to know about engine and their mechanism.

    Moreover, I know that there are a number of ‘intellectuals’ who have extraordinary knowledge about vehicles and can respond to my query.

    I thank you all in anticipation and anticipate to get articulate replies from the Pakwheelers.


    Regards,

    S. Nasir Raza Zaidi

    Drive slowly and attentively! It's the only solution to avoid severe on-road accidents.

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    yaar all are ic engines(internal combustion engines)
    the difference mechanically is very little... handa has vtec, toyota has vvti, lancer has mivec..... etc

    i think the real difference is electrically as all new engines are efi....

    if i consider myself... then i will say that i am a toyota fanatic... second place goes to mitsu(racerf1 bhai happy)

    if you are talking the performance of the car then there are many other factore... tranny... suspension... traction... bla bla bla
    how about VG30-DETT in nissan pulsar n12...

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    hello!
    talking about Corolla,sunny,CIvic and lancer engines...here one interesting thing you can find that engines like corolla & sunny are DOHC or Twin Cam engines whereas just HOnda and Lancer was still sticked to SOHC..maybe new one is expected in DOHC version..all engines seems to be fine and best and got some specialities..

    1st Corolla got 3 engines in different models...the 1.3L in XLi and Gli
    the 1.6L in Se Saloon and now 1.8L in Altis....
    the new Z-gen engines by Toyota is a total change in engine gen...comes with VVT-i which makes engine to produce much better output curve than before.....Twin cam is also in this engine making it much end-performing engine.....
    1.3L 2NZ-FE =82hp...
    1.6L 3ZZ-FE =110hp..
    1.8L 1ZZ-FE(VVT-i)=135hp......
    now comes the SUnny....the new model shifted also the engine gen from GA to QG series...comes in 1.3L Ex-saloon and 1.6L SUper Saloon...The ECCS by Nissan like introuced in GA series here performing simply best in Fuel Effeciency..in QG engines it has got the same ECCS fuel system.....1.6L version is equipped with Catalyzer...engines are Twin Cam...here did'nt comes NEO VVL as it comes in JDM models...
    1.3L QG13DE=
    1.6L QG16DE=
    Honda Civic....engines are equipped with very complicated advanced Valve Lifting solutions i-VTEC but system running on just one Cam making it much complicated..engines are available in 1.5L (without VTEC) and 1.6L(VTec-III)....engines are high compression making it more powerful...
    1.5L=110hp
    1.6L(Vtec-III)=128hp...
    and Lancer comes also with 1.3L and 1.6L in GL and GLX...engine was SOHC 16V...4G18 and 4G13..
    1.3L=86hp
    1.6L=104hp
    as i conclude so power wise Honda has got prett much powerful machines as compated to all but technology is too complicated and fuel effeciency was not too good as engine still runs on SOHC...on other hands Toyota and Nissan engines has got fine spec and engines are built for hig end performance and most of all fuel effeciency is pretty good...lancer is still running on the same platform as before...nothing special to be interested but mitsubishi engines are also fuel effecient...
    Thanxxx
    TOYOTA Sprinter 86- AE80 DOHC 20v'D TOYOTA Corolla 98- AE101 4AFE 16v

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    SER_GTR what about engine of baleno and city

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    A Comparison of the Toyota VVT system Vs the Honda V-TEC

    What the two systems are, and why they are used

    By using a conventional valve system, to keep a modern multi-valve engine usable for the road, you are limited to about 85hp to 90hp per litre. You can use a bigger camshaft quite easily get a lot more power, but only at higher revs, and at the expense of power at lower revs. So, with a bit of lateral thinking, it is now becoming more common to be able to change that very cam timing that limited the engine power while the engine is running. The Toyota VVT system isn't new, however, as similar systems have been in use for many decades before. But not for a mass production engine and certainly not with the highly accurate control of the modern engine management systems. The Honda V-Tec system is a relative new comer, and by using a system of far greater complexity than that used by Toyota, Honda is now making an engine that produces as much power as many of the better racing engines!
    So lets have a look at each system, and how they work ...
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Toyota Variable Valve Timing system, or VVT & VVT-i

    The VVT-type system has been around and in use by various companies for at least 40 years that I know of.
    (I can remember seeing a 1960's catalogue from the US that showed a special cam wheel that bolted onto a small block Ford engine's cam, and it had a mechanism that worked like a mechanical advance system in a distributor, so that as the revs picked up it advanced the cam timing. I also believe that Alfa Romeo or Fiat used a similar system back around then, or maybe before)
    VVT is simple and fairly effective. It consists of only two main parts; an 'oil control solenoid' and the VVT mechanism itself.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629365

    This diagram shows a few more bits & pieces, but you can clearly see the main two - the VVT pulley and the OCV. (Oil Control Valve, or oil solenoid as it's often called.)
    The early VVT system was relatively simple, ie, at a specific rpm (~4400rpm on the 20 valve 4AGE's) the computer signals the OCV to open, this lets oil pressure go through a special gallery in the #1 inlet cam bearing, through the centre of the inlet cam to the VVT pulley. There's a small piston in the VVT pulley, and once it gets enough pressure behind it, it starts to move outwards, causing the outer part of the pulley to turn in relation to the inner part, due to the helical spline that guides the piston's fore & aft movement.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629366

    Closer view & cutaway of the VVT controller

    So, when the computer signals for the VVT to operate, the OCV opens and thus causes the VVT pulley to advance the inlet cam timing by 30°, reference the crankshaft. (15° on the pulley itself)
    The rpm at which this happens is worked out by running the engine on a dynamometer with the inlet cam in both the fully advanced and fully retarded positions. Since the two different cam timing's will make different power throughout the rev range, (advanced inlet give more top end power at the expense of low end power, and vice-versa) there is a point where the power will be identical for both cam settings, and this is where the VVT is programmed to operate. Because the power output is the same with the VVT in either position, you can't feel anything when it happens. You can, however, hear a change in engine note, just before there's a big increase in power!

    More detail on the the VVT logic - The VVT comes in three types for the 20 valve.
    To the best of my knowledge, silvertop 20v's pre May 1993 have the VVT actuate at about 4400rpm. Post May 1993 they seem to work on throttle position and ignore revs.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    The blacktops seem to work like this, as described on Club4AG -
    1. Starting. When you crank the starter there will be VVT operation until the engine fires up, obviously to allow more air into the engine to allow an easier fire up.
    2. Coolant temp. There is absolutely NO VVT operation when the coolant tempt is below 50°C except for that brief moment when you operate the starter. Reason obvious, who want to stress a cold engine.
    3. Engine rpm. VVT will operate in any rpm between the range of 1500 and 7200 when the inlet manifold pressure is right. The min and max range can be a little out because I was reading from the car tacho. Trust me they are very close.
    4. Engine load/inlet manifold pressure. This seems to be the single most important parameter controling the system. The VVT will NOT operate if the inlet manifold has more than about 5 inches of vacuum (can't get the exact reading because everything happen so fast. It's very close.). This is very close to zero vacuum which is atmospheric and that is about the maximum load the map sensor will read to tell the engine in an NA car. As you can figure out the throttle will usually be in the more than 3/4 position for this to happen.
    5. VVT will work without the speed sensor.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Dear Fellows,

    I appreciate the replies from your end and expect to get some more...

    My special thanks to SER_GTR, LEVIN, ALITHEGREAT and last but not the least, NASHIT.

    May ALLAH bless all of us.

    Regards,

    S. Nasir Raza Zaidi
    Drive slowly and attentively! It's the only solution to avoid severe on-road accidents.

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    Now, back to the above schematic of the VVT. It shows the second evolution of the VVT system - called VVT-i - where instead of the simple 'on' or 'off' positions of the earlier VVT system, this version can make the inlet cam retard/advance to any angle between the maximum limits, and to do this the camshaft has a position sensor on the back of the head. This means that the engine is even more flexible in it's power output than before. It's completely different to the original VVT system, and is more like the V-TEC in operation.
    There are two engines that commonly use the VVTL-i system, the 1ZZ-FE/2ZZ-GE series and the latest (in 1999 & onwards) 3SGE, as used in the sporty Altezza. The early generation 'redtop' four 3SGE's have a single inlet VVT-i and the later 'blacktop' generation four 3SGE's have dual VVT-i controllers, one on the inlet and the other on the exhaust cam, and makes 200hp from 2 litres.
    So, using VVT technology, it's pretty easy to get around 100hp per litre.

    Toyota has now gone to the third evolution of the VVT, and it not only alters the cam timing, but it also alters the valve lift as well. The 'old' VVT system simply can't do this, so Toyota has gone to a system much like the ....
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    HONDA V-TEC

    Right. Let's not muck around. For straight power output, the V-TEC system craps all over the VVT system. The latest Honda V-TEC engine, as used in the S2000 sports car, makes 240hp odd out of only 2 litres - That's a sparkling 120hp per litre.
    The V-TEC system is far more complex than the VVT, but it allows you to not only alter the cam timing, but to alter the valve duration and lift at well. It's really like having two engines in one - A 'sedate' one for grocery-getting, and the other a red-blooded high revving screamer.
    How it does this, however, is with a multitude of 'fiddly bits'. Here's a picture of the valve gear

    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629368
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Ok, pay attention - This is where it starts to get tricky! What happens when the engine computer decides to make the V-TEC shift to 'grunt' mode is this - Up until that point, the valves are operated by the pair of cam followers that run directly on top of each valve. A hydraulic valve opens in the head somewhere, allowing oil pressure to fill the pivot shaft that the cam followers swing off. The oil is then directed to a tiny set of pins that live in the inner follower. These pins push outwards when the valves are shut, locking the inner cam follower to the two outer followers. The inner follower runs on a cam lobe that sits between the outer two, and is much bigger. This is the lobe that has the larger duration and lift, and so suddenly allows the engine to breath a lot better.
    You can see from the above pictures, and the one below that there's been a huge amount of effort to make it all work. The cam followers all have small rollers, to reduce friction and allow for a larger cam lobe.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629369
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    The follower system of valve operation, believe it or not, is quite similar to the latest developments in Formula One engine technology. (Though the F1's don't use V-TEC, have pneumatic valve springs, a smaller included valve angle, and so on ...)
    Here's a picture of a head that's been cross-sectioned. If you look very carefully at the right hand cam, you can just see the larger of the two sets of cam lobes hiding behind the smaller ones.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Honda have also made a single cam version of the V-TEC, (V-Tir system??) though it only operates on the inlet cam valve timing/duration/lift. As with the twin cam system, it is quite elegant but has many small parts operating under high loads and speeds.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629370
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    The point at which the V-TEC system operates is a purely rpm derived point, as was the VVT system, and is done for exactly the same reasons. Because of this, you will not gain anything on a standard engine (either type) by using one of the aftermarket controllers that let you alter the rpm at which the systems operate. All you'll do is create an unpleasant dead spot in the torque curve.

    Below is the Nissan version of V-TEC, the VVL system. It's basically exactly the same as V-TEC in design and operation and so I assume is used under licence. This engine is the SR-16-VVL 'bluetop' and they make about 175hp from the factory. There's a similar N1 version that has a red coloured cam cover and they're reported to make 197hp. There's only suposed to be about 400 bluetops and 80 redtops made, and they were fitted to the faster versions of the Nissan Pulsars in Japan.
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629371
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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    Engine differences Corolla Civic Sunny Lancer -629373
    ,,, unless you know the track, you're not good enough to sit behind the wheel." K T

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