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Thread: A Somewhat Strange Rebuild

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    Default A Somewhat Strange Rebuild

    Off roading has come a long way in Pakistan. And I mean in all possible forms of the sport. We have dedicated rally-going vehicles. Dedicated hardcore vehicles. Poseur vehicles, that never really leave the road at all, unless it's to pull into a billion rupee farmhouse! We have Toyotas, Jeeps, Pajeros, Nissans, Unimogs, MUTTs, Ivecos, Pinzgauers,GMCs...in short; almost every imaginable ORV (off road vehicle) under the sun. Some intrepid builders are even building a fiberglass Hummer somewhere here!

    Most of these vehicle, however, are "general use" vehicles, that dually act as daily drivers / weekend warriors, when the need arises. What we haven't seen, thus far, is a stripped-to-the-bones, high-performance trail rig emerge from the bowels of City Saddar Road. Something which, quite frankly, I find quite amazing.

    Conceptually speaking, this shouldn't be a very difficult thing. After having learned much on the subject from rebuilding the Phantom (an FJ40; with a 1HZ engine, H150F transmission, Series 60 axle tubes, a 7:37 diff gear ratio, 42 inch tyres, and four doors), I've come to the conclusion that such a vehicle should NOT be a very difficult thing to build, at all. It should be an out-and-out off roader, with little/no creature comforts (we already have Willys and MUTTs and Unimogs, which are quite unadorned, that way)...it should boast incredible performance (engine, transmission, 4WD, differential locks, power steering, recovery systems)...should be capable of donning different wheels for its employment, in different avatars (tall/skinny for rallying/endurance/speed and thick/broad for traction and grip during hardcore wheeling).

    Does such a vehicle require a body? I think not. Why shouldn't it have nothing but a tubular exo-skeleton / roll-cage built around the frame? Why should it need mudguards? Do we really have a requirement for any fancy electronics, other than those necessary for the engine management, lights, and winch etc? Must it be built around an expensive frame? Or could a simple, cheap, basic frame such as that of an M38 suffice? I've asked myself these questions, many a time, and for such a purpose-built rig, the answer has been pretty obvious, each time.

    This thread, deals with the conceptual parameters of building such a radical ride. I'm going to jot down a few details that I have in mind...and I would love for the more knowledgeable amongst us, to step forward and add their opinion, advice, and criticism to the pot. I would also really appreciate it, if someone could also provide some feedback / input on the possible prices of the items I'm mentioning below. Some time, some day...one amongst us, will make this pipe-dream appear as reality, Insha Allah!

    Frame
    M38 frame and voucher (the cheapest that is available in the market)

    Engine / Transmission Choices
    1UZ-FE VVTi (300 bhp), mated to an H150F 5 speed manual transmission.
    1FZ-FE Black Top (224 bhp), mated to an H150 5 speed manual transmission, or a 4 speed auto tranny.
    2UZ-FE VVTi (271 bhp), mated to a 4/5 speed auto transmission.


    Axles
    Toyota Series 60 Axle Tubes, running 9:37 or 10:41 diff gear ratios, with electronic diff locks.
    Nissan Patrol Axle Tubes, running 9:37 or 10:41 diff gear ratios, with electronic diff locks.

    Tyres
    1 set each, of tall/skinny and fat/grippy tyres, in 33 inch and 38 inch avatars, respectively.

    Steering
    Power assisted, with a kanghi-type steering box.

    Winch
    Warn
    Toyota OEM

    Body Styling (& Miscellaneous)
    None. It simply uses an arrangement of pipes bolted onto the frame as an exo-skeleton, which doubles as a roll-over cage as well. No mudguards, no wheel-wells, no body panels...in short; NOTHING which can encumber / hinder the mechanicals of the vehicle. Coilover springs (long travel). 4 wheel disc brakes. On board air, via a compressor. Steering stabilizers. Racing seats (with four point harnesses). A GPS. PERHAPS, a fold-down windscreen. PERHAPS a bikini top made out of vinyl / leatherite for wet weather.

    In my mind's eye, I already have a fair idea of what this ride SHOULD look like. When I find a photo on the internet that comes close to what I believe it should be...I'll be sure to post it. In the meanwhile, if anyone would like to indulge their creativity / technical expertise with adding to this thread...please feel welcome.

    Best regards.

    Fouad.

    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by machine View Post
    Excellent thread - Everyone who's into this ORV sh*t has a dream to build this kind of customized vehicle (I'd call it buggy


    someday I'd build an All Terrain (King of Hammer kind of ) monster


    Few pics out of my fantasy



    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049187




    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049189




    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049190




    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049191
    Thank you, brother! This, is perhaps the closest to what I was talking about...although, naturally, the build would have to conform to what is available here, and what is legal here. Great pictures! Once again...thanks, bro!
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravo122 View Post
    few more
    baja bugs

    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - 40cdb monster beetle 500x373
    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - images?qtbnANd9GcTlvr7iaU1TMrGad67o4HGrZGSRTbF6 C5wVh6K2nZrDzgeZKiGq0xCD3md
    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - 0903dp 01 z252Bgreasecar motorsports baja bug252Bleft front angle
    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - 3784d1332043929 131 0911 04 z november 2009 4x4 news vw baja bug side
    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - 3784d1332043929 131 0911 04 z november 2009 4x4 news vw baja bug side


    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - 0503or 14 zmdr night desert raceclass 5 baja bug
    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - 444313008 a5e87f09d3
    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - 444320799 d6460dfd34
    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - 131 0911 03 znovember 2009 4x4 newsvw baja bug rear
    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - a arm2520baja
    Boss...I LOVE Beetles and Volkswagens in general. And thanks ever so much for the trouble you've taken of finding these undoubtedly beautiful pictures. Um...magar nahin, dost. I think I'll stick to the planned piped exo-skeleton idea.
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    I totally agree..wheel travel ...length .....I would start with the frame...then decide were to put the engine front or back..the reason I would chose the engine first ..all the other components would to match the power out put of the engine..once all the goodies were in place transfer case shafts were all in..then move onto the wheels ..I think it needs to be reliable as you can make it..all work would exseseble at any time off roading.....
    l
    Pakistan.. Toyota hilux..golf mk2 gtd..rolla 2.0d..nissian sunny.. Yamaha pw 50.. Coventry uk....audi v8 d11..golf mk2 rallye..honda crx..evo 8..golf mk2 gtd..Vauxhall insignia..

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    Them bugs have got some serious springs...loads off travel...
    Pakistan.. Toyota hilux..golf mk2 gtd..rolla 2.0d..nissian sunny.. Yamaha pw 50.. Coventry uk....audi v8 d11..golf mk2 rallye..honda crx..evo 8..golf mk2 gtd..Vauxhall insignia..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teeboyuk View Post
    I totally agree..wheel travel ...length .....I would start with the frame...then decide were to put the engine front or back..the reason I would chose the engine first ..all the other components would to match the power out put of the engine..once all the goodies were in place transfer case shafts were all in..then move onto the wheels ..I think it needs to be reliable as you can make it..all work would exseseble at any time off roading.....
    l
    Thanks for the interest, once again.

    I would differ slightly, in terms of "how to go about things". I'd probably use the following milestone markers to chart the progress of the build...

    a) Sort out the frame, free it from all imperfections, damage, and the like.
    b) Attach the axles/tubes.
    c) Mount the wheels and tyres. Visually assess whether or not they "sit" right. At this point, extending/truncating the frame as per requirements is still fairly simple.
    d) Mount the engine, transmission, transfer case. Affix the other parts of the drivetrain, and again, see how it "sits", before adding the shocks / springs.
    e) Mount the shocks and adjust to the point where they're just about right (perhaps somewhat extended, rather than compressed...since it's still going to take on some more weight) before adding the tubing.
    f) Fabricate the exo-skeleton around everything else. Where required, put in the floorpan. The space for the fuel tank. Where the seats will be anchored. Get the fabricator to build it around YOU; for it to be supremely comfortable, and fit your dimensions.
    g) Add electricals, concurrently. Exhaust, cooling system, lights, recovery system, seats, protective harnesses, et al.
    h) Strip to the bone, once again.
    i) Powder coat / paint.
    j) Take-off!
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    To my mind, this would be a "low" rig, comparatively speaking. Low and wide and not-too-long...rather than tall and wide and long (as the Phantom is). In view of its high-speed aspirations, you do not want it to be overly tall. You WOULD want it to be broad, on the other hand; so as to adequately provide lateral stability. Since it isn't going to be very high, you don't want an excessively long wheelbase which will cause it to belly at the slightest obstacle/overhang. The excellent power to weight ratio would assist it in "skimming over" obstacles...so you want to make maximum use of any and all articulation that you can milk out of the rig. Steering should be responsive; with short travel from lock to lock. Again, since it's not going to be very tall, under-belly ergonomics are going to have to be well thought out and slick; to prevent under carriage damage. Above all else; KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID...or K.I.S.S. You don't want a lot of willy-nilly systems interfering with the basic "unadorned" design!
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Clearly...I DO need psychiatric help. :|
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Great bro.. I totally agree..we're would you mount the engine..front or rear..
    Pakistan.. Toyota hilux..golf mk2 gtd..rolla 2.0d..nissian sunny.. Yamaha pw 50.. Coventry uk....audi v8 d11..golf mk2 rallye..honda crx..evo 8..golf mk2 gtd..Vauxhall insignia..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teeboyuk View Post
    Great bro.. I totally agree..we're would you mount the engine..front or rear..
    Hmmm. Interesting question. For the sake of ease and comfort and simplicity...I'd say the front. Although I CAN see the advantages to a rear-engined setup, as well.

    Too much trouble, getting it to fit front to back. Like I said...K.I.S.S....!
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    How about this.... looks like something that could've been put together at city saddar ... i would do a better job of the exo cage though ...also would prefer a better departure angle

    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049218A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049219A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049220A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049221A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049222
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Bro if your building a space frame..you mount it were you like...the advantage would be a very light front end..lots of fun
    Pakistan.. Toyota hilux..golf mk2 gtd..rolla 2.0d..nissian sunny.. Yamaha pw 50.. Coventry uk....audi v8 d11..golf mk2 rallye..honda crx..evo 8..golf mk2 gtd..Vauxhall insignia..

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    a lil off topic but came across this while surfing the web and remembered you'd put tsome pictures of an FJ ratrod... hows this for a ratrod
    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049223A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049224A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049225A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049227A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049228A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049229A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049230 bears some resemblence to my lotus replica A Somewhat Strange Rebuild -1049233
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    How about this.... looks like something that could've been put together at city saddar ... i would do a better job of the exo cage though ...also would prefer a better departure angle
    Now that DOES look like fun, Yaser!

    Poor departure angle, though. The rear overhang is too long. The frame is unnecessarily long, too...although, I suppose it does add to some "anti-roll-over ability" in one way or the other. Wheels aren't big enough. The centre of gravity is kept low by keeping the vehicle low, too. So not enough clearance. And X 2, on the "the exo cage could be better"! Although, the rear mounted fuel tank (at least that's what I think it is) is a good idea to act as a counterbalance of sorts, for the engine weight up front
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    As a matter of fact, Yaser, building a ratrod would be MUCH simpler than building a 4wd off-roader / endurance vehicle.

    Simply sling in the Buick 455, mount the TH350 (OR, use a 1FZ-FE VVTi, mated to a 5 speed "Super Intelligent" tiptronic gearbox) without any need for a connection to a transfer case, use stiff springs rather than big-articulation coilovers, lower the vehicle till it sits close to the ground, bolt on body parts, seats, electricals, high-speed axles and diffs, and burn rubber!

    Hmmm. I bet THAT would be VERY interesting, too!
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Oh...AND use low-profile extra thick rubber at the rear, while you use low-profile skinny rubber up front.

    Of course, for this, you'd be better off using the frame to a car, instead. Just bolt on the ORV body to complete the "ratrod" effect.
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fouadhafeez View Post
    As a matter of fact, Yaser, building a ratrod would be MUCH simpler than building a 4wd off-roader / endurance vehicle.

    Simply sling in the Buick 455, mount the TH350 (OR, use a 1FZ-FE VVTi, mated to a 5 speed "Super Intelligent" tiptronic gearbox) without any need for a connection to a transfer case, use stiff springs rather than big-articulation coilovers, lower the vehicle till it sits close to the ground, bolt on body parts, seats, electricals, high-speed axles and diffs, and burn rubber!

    Hmmm. I bet THAT would be VERY interesting, too!
    you should do this for a living.... Capital City Customs! by Fouad Hafeez
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by fouadhafeez View Post
    Too much trouble, getting it to fit front to back. Like I said...K.I.S.S....!
    Umm, its actually easier than you would think You just need to spend some time with Raana Sb and think it through: NISMO Stuff: Raana Horan's "Titan"...

    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - BigBlackII Pic3
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    you should do this for a living.... Capital City Customs! by Fouad Hafeez
    LOL. All I'd need would be to grow handlebar whiskers, and sport lots of tattoos...right?
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Umm, its actually easier than you would think You just need to spend some time with Raana Sb and think it through: NISMO Stuff: Raana Horan's "Titan"...

    A Somewhat Strange Rebuild - BigBlackII Pic3
    Suhaib Bhai...Nikku Ustaad ko yeh kaise samjhainge: "Ustaad Ji...idda engine iddi pichhli aali side tey laana aey"

    And who would be able to tolerate the looks of amazement they'd give you: "iss waari...aey bilkul liwanna ho gaya aey"
    Always buy cars which your children love. They'll be helpful allies against your wife, later on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teeboyuk View Post
    Bro if your building a space frame..you mount it were you like...the advantage would be a very light front end..lots of fun
    Interesting! Most trophy trucks are mid mounted, almost all Class 1 buggies are rear mounted. Robby Gordon Hummer is rear mounted too. I am however not too sure how much difference it really would make when you are running in 4x4 though and the 1UZ and LS series aluminum block engines are pretty light to begin with... but still given a choice I would rather have it at the back then at the front for a desert racer, especially if its something other than these two engines or even these with turbos....
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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