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Thread: 8th Cholistan Jeep Rally 2013 Report: Dedicated to the Late Syed Abbas Akbar

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    Default 8th Cholistan Jeep Rally 2013 Report: Dedicated to the Late Syed Abbas Akbar

    Qasim Saidhi & Rizwan Buttar - Mitsubishi Pajero Evolution - First Position Category A
    8th Cholistan Jeep Rally 2013 Report Dedicated to the Late Syed Abbas Akbar -1257500

    Suhaib Kiani & Farooq Awan - Toyota FJ40 Concordia - Seventh Position Category A
    8th Cholistan Jeep Rally 2013 Report Dedicated to the Late Syed Abbas Akbar -1257501

    Yaser Ahmed Ghani & Taimoor Zaid - Toyota Hilux Surf - DNF Category B
    8th Cholistan Jeep Rally 2013 Report: Dedicated to the Late Syed Abbas Akbar - filephp?id13702

    Rashid Abdullah & Imran - Mitsubishi Triton - Third Position Category C
    8th Cholistan Jeep Rally 2013 Report: Dedicated to the Late Syed Abbas Akbar - filephp?id13967

    This thread is dedicated to the memory of Late Syed Abbas Akbar - Veteran Rally Driver who passed away a few months before this year's rally. May his soul rest in peace and his rally spirit continue to inspire and empower the sportsmen of the future!
    8th Cholistan Jeep Rally 2013 Report: Dedicated to the Late Syed Abbas Akbar - 1118391d1359379281 jhal magsi desert challenge 2013 news updates thread 487017 4276745750201 458625272 n

    Full Rally Results Posted on 4x4 Pakistan Rally Thread Here !
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Default The Jimny Phenomenon

    So what are these jimnys all about? well the 1st thing that comes to mind is the all important "power/weight ratio" piece.. in stock guise the jimny weighs 1ton and has about 80hp... i guess the "jugaari" version would have the power bumped up to about 120hp max and the weight down to about 0.8tons... The 2.5 vigo weighs in at a shade under 2 tons and a shade under 150hp...bump that up with a chip to about 190hp max and shave off the weight to about 1.6-1.7 tons and you have the jimny beating the vigo in the p/w ratio war by about 25%.... thats massive in racing terms and would explain why these guys are consistently faster than the C category guys...not taking anything away from their driving abilities but 150hp/ton is not a bad starting point....so what if your D category
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    So what are these jimnys all about? well the 1st thing that comes to mind is the all important "power/weight ratio" piece.. in stock guise the jimny weighs 1ton and has about 80hp... i guess the "jugaari" version would have the power bumped up to about 120hp max and the weight down to about 0.8tons... The 2.5 vigo weighs in at a shade under 2 tons and a shade under 150hp...bump that up with a chip to about 190hp max and shave off the weight to about 1.6-1.7 tons and you have the jimny beating the vigo in the p/w ratio war by about 25%.... thats massive in racing terms and would explain why these guys are consistently faster than the C category guys...not taking anything away from their driving abilities but 150hp/ton is not a bad starting point....so what if your D category
    @ Yaser, power to weight ratio is very important, but what you are seeing here in the result sheets are specific to Cholistan. In Jhal the Jimny's are much slower compared to rest, even at Mithi they were slower.

    So it could be a combination of terrain, drivers familiarity with terrain, drivers driving style suitable for terrain and so on.

    BTW, i doubt your surf is 2.5 tonnes, from memory it unlikely to be more than 2200kg, and in race trim hopefully less than 2000kg. Higher COG may be the issue with resultant handling compromise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    @ Yaser, power to weight ratio is very important, but what you are seeing here in the result sheets are specific to Cholistan. In Jhal the Jimny's are much slower compared to rest, even at Mithi they were slower.

    So it could be a combination of terrain, drivers familiarity with terrain, drivers driving style suitable for terrain and so on.

    BTW, i doubt your surf is 2.5 tonnes, from memory it unlikely to be more than 2200kg, and in race trim hopefully less than 2000kg. Higher COG may be the issue with resultant handling compromise.
    nn my observations are based on cholistan alone... fair point about their performance in mithi and jhal... other than 20 odd kms the entire cholistan track was narrow,winding and bumpy..favoring the lighter short wheelbase vehicles more than larger vehicles...

    Youre right about my surf being 2200kg, i added two 100kg fellas, two 31" spare tires, a 2"/14 gauge rollcage along with 6mm thick anchor plates, toolboxes, a hilift jack....a full tank of fuel....and that should be north of 2.5 tons
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    Thori bohot class jaiz hai!! Gari araam se chalai thi, teesri CP tak , phir jab mukesh chawla agay howa to "pathan" kaifiyat tari ho gai... and the rest as they say is history ... finish line do dafa pehlay cross kar di thi ... and in my defense..might i say, our time on the 2nd recce was faster than some peoples rally times ...bohot seekha aur bohot maza ayaa...

    what suits you saturday or sunday? Gopro videos are ready to be viewed. Taimur is in Kabul currently (sent there for punishment...for being a bad navigator )...but should be back tomorrow...
    Lets have lunch on Sunday, how about we meet at 12:30 at my place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    So what are these jimnys all about? well the 1st thing that comes to mind is the all important "power/weight ratio" piece.. in stock guise the jimny weighs 1ton and has about 80hp... i guess the "jugaari" version would have the power bumped up to about 120hp max and the weight down to about 0.8tons... The 2.5 vigo weighs in at a shade under 2 tons and a shade under 150hp...bump that up with a chip to about 190hp max and shave off the weight to about 1.6-1.7 tons and you have the jimny beating the vigo in the p/w ratio war by about 25%.... thats massive in racing terms and would explain why these guys are consistently faster than the C category guys...not taking anything away from their driving abilities but 150hp/ton is not a bad starting point....so what if your D category
    I would think that power to weight was by and large less relevant on this track and the only use of big engine displacement was perhaps to use the torque to plow through some of the badly rutted turns. Otherwise, it was a funny level playing field track with the rain making a key difference.

    Category B vs C Vigo results are probably not fully representative because as good as some of the Top C drivers are, they are no match for the B rockstars probably running better set-up cars....

    This was mainly a driver's track with good suspension for the khabbar making a difference. I felt that because of the deep rained out main rut on the trak which seemed to make the car turn almost by itself, even handling diffrences between cars were also dampened to some extent....
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    [QUOTE=yaserag;3778018]8th Cholistan Jeep Rally 2013 Report Dedicated to the Late Syed Abbas Akbar -1142560

    QUOTE]

    Meraa khyaal hai ke aap aik Jimny khareed lein kyon ke jab iss jahaz ko jab Jimny overtake karrey gee to phir aap bhee meree tarah bahaney karein ge ke GoPro band ho gaya
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Welcome anytime! Farooq aur Billu ke treat bilkul jaiz hai aur woh log Shinwari ke khaas shaayaqeen hain!

    Plans discuss keeyay jaein, zaroor, magar intibah hai ke teer ab kaman se nikal key seenay mein khub chukaa hai! I am afraid sir, there is no turning back, you had a clear choice last year to take either the white pill or the green one! You made a conscious decision on how you want to go about this rally malley business. You have to stick to your guns and work with what you have as you have invested significantly into the Surf venture. As much as I would like to say here that my advice on going for a project car was more practical and as gratifying as it should be for me to see that you probably concur with my views today, the fact is that you made your choice last year and what was good advice yesterday is not necessaily good advice today! So as much as I hate to say this, the 1UZ Hilux has to wait for another day and KC Cruiser must hold its ground for 2014!

    In the meantime, for everyone wondering what it is about project cars, or thinking if they should go for a project car, or wanting to convert their perfectly good factory cars to project ones and specially those in the nay on project cars, I qoute Ghani Khan "Ta saa khabar eh, da de mazay na..."
    Could not understand the quote in the end but agree with SK that you should stick to your guns and work with Surf.

    INSHA ALLAH when we meet on Sunday, we will have more elaborate discussion but now that you have been to Cholistan and know many things first hand, allow me to state in most clear words that SK and I have completely different and distinct ideologies for rallies. SK cherishes the fact that he has built something out of scrap and his FJ, is able to beat some novice drivers.

    My ideology is exactly the opposite. Two years ago, I donated probably the best available Evo in Pakistan for rallies and after rolling it over, bending its chassis and blowing one engine, have achieved six podiums in my last seven races. I admit and agree that the first positions in Malam Jabba Snow Rally 2011 and Cholistan 2013 were by default i.e. due to the absence of Nadir Magsi, yet the two 2nd positions and two 3rd positions were hard fought and well deserved to much extent. These podiums, in addition to self satisfaction, have given me the status that all known rally drivers consider me a realistic competition, hence, the respect associated with it.

    While I respect the ideology of SK, if some day, due to financial or health constraints, I reach the conclusion that I am not able to seriously compete to win, I would probably leave rallies altogether.

    If i remember correctly, you had lengthy discussions with me and SK before purchasing Surf. Do not know what exactly SK suggested but surely he was of the view to prepare something out of a scrapyard and I suggested that you should buy a 3-door Nissan, preferably 1998-2003 model for rallies. I also suggested that if you are not comfortable with Nissan then buy a 2005-2006 manual Vigo and prepare it for rallies.

    A rally prepared 3-door 1998-2003 Nissan would have been a project of 2.3-2.5 million at the most. Rally prepared 1990-1998 Nissan would have costed around half. Similarly, a rally prepared Vigo would have costed around or just over 3 million. I also told that these vehicles are already in rally and able drivers driving such vehicles are consistently podium winners.

    You had the finances and bought a stock Surf for over 3 million. You spent probably 3 to 4 hundred thousand on preparing it for the rally. Unfortunately, your Surf rolled over and you lost on its resale value. If you want to cut your losses on Surf and start from scratch to build a new rally vehicle just because you think that Surf is not manageable or not a podium finisher then I would say that you are wrong. If you can polish your rally driving, a 2003 Surf with 1KD can be a regular podium finisher. You already have the roll cage, chip and one set of icons. All you need is a second set of rebound control shocks and better springs at the back. You can reduce weight of around 100kgs by removing the tail gate and rear doors but even if you keep them, 1KD Surf is faster and has better handling than a Vigo. You might be impressed with a driving of Mukesh and some Jimny guys but you should also know that all of them have had many roll overs and are in rallies for years and years. On the other hand, it was your first rally and your vehicle set up was not ideal so no wonder you could not keep up with Mukesh.

    Deciding radically after a roll over is in my opinion a "knee jerk reaction" only. Would suggest that you should rethink and reconsider.

    What you must do at this point is to adopt one ideology whole heartedly. It can be SK's ideology or it can be my ideology. Once you are done choosing which way you want to approach a rally, I am sure you can achieve your goal. Many people congratulate me for winning Cholistan only because I am the first from Punjab to win it. Do you want to do it for KPK, or not, its your choice.

    In my heart, I know that you are a very capable driver and have the mental and physical strength to overcome the deficiencies. I am 100% convinced that Surf is a winner if only you can improve your driving, which you would eventually within the next couple of rallies. If you stay steadfast on my ideology, which you opted last year, trust me you will be a force to recon within 2013-2014 season.

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    A very thought provoking and inspiring write-up by Qasim!


    Continuing on previous Jimny's time vs the fastest overall time,

    here goes

    2010 Cholistan.................. Fastest 2:15:13 D Stock 2:44:22
    2010 Jhal.......................... Fastest 2.06.31 D Stock 2:42:31
    2011 Dharky / Sindh......... Fastest 1:10.48 D Stock 1:22:48
    2011 Jhal.......................... Fastest 2.03:40 D Stock 2:29:30
    2012 Cholistan.................. Fastest 2:18:15 D Stock 2:39:11
    2012 Mithi........................ Fastest 1:59:57 D Stock 2:32:23
    2012 Jhal.......................... Fastest 2.01:57 D Stock 2:31:14
    2013 Cholistan.................. Fastest 2:43:10 D Stock 2:56:10
    <o:p></o:p>
    </SPAN>

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    Quote Originally Posted by nn View Post
    A very thought provoking and inspiring write-up by Qasim!


    Continuing on previous Jimny's time vs the fastest overall time,

    here goes

    2010 Cholistan.................. Fastest 2:15:13 D Stock 2:44:22
    2010 Jhal.......................... Fastest 2.06.31 D Stock 2:42:31
    2011 Dharky / Sindh......... Fastest 1:10.48 D Stock 1:22:48
    2011 Jhal.......................... Fastest 2.03:40 D Stock 2:29:30
    2012 Cholistan.................. Fastest 2:18:15 D Stock 2:39:11
    2012 Mithi........................ Fastest 1:59:57 D Stock 2:32:23
    2012 Jhal.......................... Fastest 2.01:57 D Stock 2:31:14
    2013 Cholistan.................. Fastest 2:43:10 D Stock 2:56:10
    <o:p></o:p>
    Nadir Magsi improved consistently in Jhal, he used the same TLC and it was almost the same track. With my 2: 05 in Jhal this year, I am still two years behind him

    As SK had mentioned earlier, track of this year's Cholistan cannot be good for comparison because it was probably the slowest track I ever saw during my 5 years in rally. Being a slow speed track, excess speed of more powerful vehicles is of no use, smaller/nimble vehicles being driven by brave drivers who are more willing to take risk performed better.

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    @Yassir ..pathan ki kayfiat lolzzz...............i hope you didn't said something waa sta ... odrega chy ...
    THE Word Impossible is in the Dictionary of Fools!
    "4x4 are built NOT bought"

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    Quote Originally Posted by saidhi View Post
    ............SK cherishes the fact that he has built something out of scrap and his FJ, is able to beat some novice drivers.......
    Waisey kaafee ziyadati hai magar ab mein Qasim Sher-e-Punjab Saidhi ko kutch keh sakta hoon kyaa

    For the record, yes SK does cherish the fact that HE (not necessarily the FJ) beat some novice drivers with "better" rally cars with his project FJ40. Furthermore, for whatever its worth, it is my considered opinion that on the Cholistan 2013 track agar Jimnion ne Evolutionon ko pinjaa hai, to phir anyone of the top jimny drivers driving the Uzi FJ (on an as was where was basis) would have been be a serious contender for A category podium.

    OK we or the FJ was not on the podium, but it was a pleasure for us to see Sarfaraz Dhanji up there on a serious project Nissan. Congrats and Kudos to him for demonstrating the potential for local project cars on the rallying scene. While we cannot steal some credit from him, the fact is that when we were these at Jhal 2011 with a project car, yes there was a lot of talk about it, but we were the only one having taken the bet against the general perception that "stock is best" ! Now everyone, is thinking along completely different lines and good for all of them, but for the record we novices were there running "Project Ambitious" when the veterans were generally not even willing to entertain any such idea! And thats something to cherish too for us for whetever its worth!
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by aark30 View Post
    @Yassir ..pathan ki kayfiat lolzzz...............i hope you didn't said something waa sta ... odrega chy ...
    Mamaki, it was more like "Daoosa, us gora! staa seenga akhlam!.... draaz druuzz draaaz!!"
    More Power!!! More power....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Waisey kaafee ziyadati hai magar ab mein Qasim Sher-e-Punjab Saidhi ko kutch keh sakta hoon kyaa

    For the record, yes SK does cherish the fact that HE (not necessarily the FJ) beat some novice drivers with "better" rally cars with his project FJ40. Furthermore, for whatever its worth, it is my considered opinion that on the Cholistan 2013 track agar Jimnion ne Evolutionon ko pinjaa hai, to phir anyone of the top jimny drivers driving the Uzi FJ (on an as was where was basis) would have been be a serious contender for A category podium.

    OK we or the FJ was not on the podium, but it was a pleasure for us to see Sarfaraz Dhanji up there on a serious project Nissan. Congrats and Kudos to him for demonstrating the potential for local project cars on the rallying scene. While we cannot steal some credit from him, the fact is that when we were these at Jhal 2011 with a project car, yes there was a lot of talk about it, but we were the only one having taken the bet against the general perception that "stock is best" ! Now everyone, is thinking along completely different lines and good for all of them, but for the record we novices were there running "Project Ambitious" when the veterans were generally not even willing to entertain any such idea! And thats something to cherish too for us for whetever its worth!

    More power to you!
    More Power!!! More power....

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    [QUOTE=SuhaibKiani;3778476]
    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post
    8th Cholistan Jeep Rally 2013 Report Dedicated to the Late Syed Abbas Akbar -1142560

    QUOTE]

    Meraa khyaal hai ke aap aik Jimny khareed lein kyon ke jab iss jahaz ko jab Jimny overtake karrey gee to phir aap bhee meree tarah bahaney karein ge ke GoPro band ho gaya
    Abay bahana kahaan kiya! mein to keh raha hoon ke nuskha barra mehnga tha... paisa bhi kharcho te roll over bhi karo ... my new rule: roll over karo, lekin sasti gaadi mein karo...
    More Power!!! More power....

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    [QUOTE=yaserag;3779521]
    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post

    Abay bahana kahaan kiya! mein to keh raha hoon ke nuskha barra mehnga tha... paisa bhi kharcho te roll over bhi karo ... my new rule: roll over karo, lekin sasti gaadi mein karo...
    Dont worry,, Surf is not going to loose any more value

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    [QUOTE=saidhi;3779690]
    Quote Originally Posted by yaserag View Post

    Dont worry,, Surf is not going to loose any more value
    Yes, ab taanga full tayyar howa hai! Waisey bhee aik bar gaarey rally pe aa jayey to waapis taanga hee jata hai! I would suggest that you should make the roof detachable so you can take it off for rally along with doors and back! Would take care of all the prolems you mentioned earlier
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

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    Quote Originally Posted by saidhi View Post
    Nadir Magsi improved consistently in Jhal, he used the same TLC and it was almost the same track. With my 2: 05 in Jhal this year, I am still two years behind him

    As SK had mentioned earlier, track of this year's Cholistan cannot be good for comparison because it was probably the slowest track I ever saw during my 5 years in rally. Being a slow speed track, excess speed of more powerful vehicles is of no use, smaller/nimble vehicles being driven by brave drivers who are more willing to take risk performed better.
    The Jimnys and jimny drivers have also upped their game over the years but then again all rally cars and drivers seem also to improve year on year. Also I may be wrong but some of the younger Jimny lot (Mehrab Khan for one) have a different wheel barrow based driving style particularly on the rough tracks. I don't think the older lot like to jump the back as much and their cars are generally set-up diffrently with more back weight. The chopped back ones have their spare tire just behind the driver.
    "If YOU don't believe in what you're doing it'll never work."

  19. #218
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    [QUOTE=SuhaibKiani;3779713]
    Quote Originally Posted by saidhi View Post

    Yes, ab taanga full tayyar howa hai! Waisey bhee aik bar gaarey rally pe aa jayey to waapis taanga hee jata hai! I would suggest that you should make the roof detachable so you can take it off for rally along with doors and back! Would take care of all the prolems you mentioned earlier
    is there a i "dont" like this quote option? .... after removing the mountain dew vinyl my "taanga" has come out quite shiny and "saabat" underneath.

    i intend to join the elite club of guys who bring two vehicles to rallies ... will decide on which one to use after the recce
    More Power!!! More power....

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    What you and I need to do regularly is to visit Ravi or Phase 8 atleast once a month and consume half the fuel tank over there. It will go a long way

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuhaibKiani View Post
    Waisey kaafee ziyadati hai magar ab mein Qasim Sher-e-Punjab Saidhi ko kutch keh sakta hoon kyaa

    For the record, yes SK does cherish the fact that HE (not necessarily the FJ) beat some novice drivers with "better" rally cars with his project FJ40. Furthermore, for whatever its worth, it is my considered opinion that on the Cholistan 2013 track agar Jimnion ne Evolutionon ko pinjaa hai, to phir anyone of the top jimny drivers driving the Uzi FJ (on an as was where was basis) would have been be a serious contender for A category podium.

    OK we or the FJ was not on the podium, but it was a pleasure for us to see Sarfaraz Dhanji up there on a serious project Nissan. Congrats and Kudos to him for demonstrating the potential for local project cars on the rallying scene. While we cannot steal some credit from him, the fact is that when we were these at Jhal 2011 with a project car, yes there was a lot of talk about it, but we were the only one having taken the bet against the general perception that "stock is best" ! Now everyone, is thinking along completely different lines and good for all of them, but for the record we novices were there running "Project Ambitious" when the veterans were generally not even willing to entertain any such idea! And thats something to cherish too for us for whetever its worth!
    Jaan ki amman paoun tu kuch arz karoon?

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