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Thread: Hi-Octane whether to use it or not ?

  1. #1
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    Default Hi-Octane whether to use it or not ?

    Previously I was of the opinion that hi-octane in normal engines causes damage due to over-heating and we can use it occasionally in percentage mixture with normal fuel. Just a few days back i had a detailed discussion with a chemical engineer who happened to be a lubricant expert of PSO. As i understood, The theory states that car engines r designed to withstand the heat generated by higher RON fuel (e.g, high octane which is around 96 RON compared to regular which is some 88 to 89 RON) ... There is also a news that a fuel rating 93-94 RON fuel is being standardized in Pakistan as regular petrol ... so far this proposal is in process so cant say when it will be approved and implemented...
    after this discussion, what i did was to top up my tank with hi-octane and till now i have used half tank

    my observation and question

    - car with high octane gives better mileage some 5-10% better
    - So why not use hi-octane only when its price is approx 15% more... net difference is not much .. but u get better engine life, performance and efficency

    Please offer ur comments

    - Is it safe to use hi-octane only ?
    - Has anyone experienced better mileage with hi-octane only and how much improvement ?
    - any other stats or experiences

    thanks

    "You have not lived today until you have done something for someone who can never repay you."

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    @Xulfiqar @capsat please offer ur expert opinion
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    bhai jan petrol petrol hota hai gari chalni chahyeay trouble free.

    on serious note: The Iranian petrol we get across the balochistan is far better compared to what is sold by local fuel blending companies in Pakistan. in a Indus corolla 12 valve carb engine using iranian petrol 43 liter topped tank always churned out 560 km city drive & 580 km highway drive. while the very same corolla while topped up in Islamabad never performed over 470 km before top up.

    am sure ron rating has some effect over engine performance

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    Iranian fuel is likely to be adulterated - probably kerosene oil blended in, so you're taking a big risk.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naweed View Post
    Previously I was of the opinion that hi-octane in normal engines causes damage due to over-heating and we can use it occasionally in percentage mixture with normal fuel. Just a few days back i had a detailed discussion with a chemical engineer who happened to be a lubricant expert of PSO. As i understood, The theory states that car engines r designed to withstand the heat generated by higher RON fuel (e.g, high octane which is around 96 RON compared to regular which is some 88 to 89 RON) ... There is also a news that a fuel rating 93-94 RON fuel is being standardized in Pakistan as regular petrol ... so far this proposal is in process so cant say when it will be approved and implemented...
    after this discussion, what i did was to top up my tank with hi-octane and till now i have used half tank

    my observation and question

    - car with high octane gives better mileage some 5-10% better
    - So why not use hi-octane only when its price is approx 15% more... net difference is not much .. but u get better engine life, performance and efficency

    Please offer ur comments

    - Is it safe to use hi-octane only ?
    - Has anyone experienced better mileage with hi-octane only and how much improvement ?
    - any other stats or experiences

    thanks
    Better fuel average, better engine response and zero engine knocking has been personally observed when using hobc compare to super unleaded.
    Problem is very hard to find hobc as only few fuel station got them even in Karachi. I have to go to dha to get hobc from Gulberg 19km 1 way trip from my home 😯.

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    Quote Originally Posted by archon2001 View Post
    Better fuel average, better engine response and zero engine knocking has been personally observed when using hobc compare to super unleaded.
    Problem is very hard to find hobc as only few fuel station got them even in Karachi. I have to go to dha to get hobc from Gulberg 19km 1 way trip from my home .

    Sent from my ALE-L21 using PW Forums mobile app
    two pumps on teen-talwar and one opp regeant plaza at shahra-e-faisal have hobc
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    well HOBC is high octane blending component which should always be mixed with petrol and not used purely for better engine life. If your car knocks or you feel a positive change in actual fuel consumption and performance then you may use HOBC in a mixture, if the change is only in the head then just stick to regular super unleaded. Thats what I do.
    If everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane!

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    sir in Balochistan across there is no adulteration in Fuel. Sellers cannot risk their credibility am sure mixing is done at the PUMPs selling Iranian Fuel outside Balochistan

    Quote Originally Posted by pistonhead View Post
    Iranian fuel is likely to be adulterated - probably kerosene oil blended in, so you're taking a big risk.

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    sir am not a Karachi resident but i know Karachi Quetta & Islamabad a bit.

    The Caltex = Total pump at DIG Office new town Jail road + TV station road have HOBC again Total = Caltex near People's Round about at Dawood college Karachi sell HOBC, Shell pump at Kabristan Shahrea Quaideen sell HOBC, Shell Pump Opposite Quaid Mazar on M.A Jinnah road near nawai waqt office sell HOBC, BYCO all BYCO pumps have HOBC dispenser.

    yeah aur baat hai k long drive ka mazay laynay app dha jatay houn family k sath Petrol k bahanay sai ..

    Quote Originally Posted by archon2001 View Post
    Better fuel average, better engine response and zero engine knocking has been personally observed when using hobc compare to super unleaded.
    Problem is very hard to find hobc as only few fuel station got them even in Karachi. I have to go to dha to get hobc from Gulberg 19km 1 way trip from my home .

    Sent from my ALE-L21 using PW Forums mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by uzeemujeeb View Post
    sir am not a Karachi resident but i know Karachi Quetta & Islamabad a bit.

    The Caltex = Total pump at DIG Office new town Jail road + TV station road have HOBC again Total = Caltex near People's Round about at Dawood college Karachi sell HOBC, Shell pump at Kabristan Shahrea Quaideen sell HOBC, Shell Pump Opposite Quaid Mazar on M.A Jinnah road near nawai waqt office sell HOBC, BYCO all BYCO pumps have HOBC dispenser.

    yeah aur baat hai k long drive ka mazay laynay app dha jatay houn family k sath Petrol k bahanay sai ..
    Not once but many time I visited few these station u mentioned except total but always got same reply " hi octane nahi hai pechay say nahi as raha hai" Dispenser tu saron Kay pass hai hobc nahi hai,
    Anyways ab jahan say mil jata hai lay laitay hain .
    Hahaha dha Kay kiyah Mazay lainay hain sara Karachi eik sa hi hai meray Liyah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arzaam.bhatti View Post
    well HOBC is high octane blending component which should always be mixed with petrol and not used purely for better engine life. If your car knocks or you feel a positive change in actual fuel consumption and performance then you may use HOBC in a mixture, if the change is only in the head then just stick to regular super unleaded. Thats what I do.


    i completely diagree with you kind sir.

    RON 92+ is what should be used in every car in pakistan which is sold in the name of high octane .

    it is a mere fuel as per international RON rankings, bear in mind that we get below par fuel when it comes to (supreme) RON 87 which used to be sold internationally in 1980's.

    In united kingdom RON 95 is sold as REGULAR petrol. and High Octane starts from RON 97 above till 102 as recently introduced by BP in the Uk.


    I believe there is not such thing as MIXING Two types of petrol. Ron 87 + RON 95 will just mess up and waste RON 95.


    its same as you use a bottle of mineral water of nestle with contaminated tap water


    Either you top up your tank full of HI-OCTANE or dont get it at all, ye " 30 litre tank mien 5 litre hi octane theory is a myth " with no logical backing.

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    As far as Hi Octane is concern, i have seen that the engine knocking will be reduced up to great extent, the fuel efficiency will increase and the engine performance will be enhanced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hashsohail View Post
    i completely diagree with you kind sir.

    RON 92+ is what should be used in every car in pakistan which is sold in the name of high octane .

    it is a mere fuel as per international RON rankings, bear in mind that we get below par fuel when it comes to (supreme) RON 87 which used to be sold internationally in 1980's.

    In united kingdom RON 95 is sold as REGULAR petrol. and High Octane starts from RON 97 above till 102 as recently introduced by BP in the Uk.


    I believe there is not such thing as MIXING Two types of petrol. Ron 87 + RON 95 will just mess up and waste RON 95.


    its same as you use a bottle of mineral water of nestle with contaminated tap water


    Either you top up your tank full of HI-OCTANE or dont get it at all, ye " 30 litre tank mien 5 litre hi octane theory is a myth " with no logical backing.
    yes we get below sub par regular fuel but our cars arent exactly the latest tech either. majority of local cars on the road have compression ratio 10.5 and below. with the exception of civic most say even in their owner manuals that 87 ron is acceptable but that is changing in post 2010 models.

    If you compare Uk than compare their euro VI emission standard and engine tech for all cars as well. thats why government in pakistan is now also increasing ron of regular petrol.

    btw most though not all HOBC in pakistan is 97 ron a respected member once emailed all pumps i am sure if you search the forums youll find it. which if you put in for example a mehran or 2005 corolla will make no difference and actually cause harm if they do not knock or need it in the first place. if 87 ron is too low for a local car youll feel it. then just as i say mix HOBC and i should add in the percentage as well 50/50 and if you have a car with direct fuel injection or one that requires premium fuel as mentioned in a sticker or in the owners manual then go ahead and use pure HOBC. In local cars there is hardly only one car that requires this and even in imported cars hardly a handful that have premium fuel labels pasted on the fuel filler flap or mentioned in the owners manual. 97 ron would hurt the rest if they cannot fully burn it and if they require only 93 ron then best result is achieved by a mixture of HOBC.


    result is not like what you are saying to mix bottle of nestle with tap but respectfully what you are saying is same drinking directly from rooh afzah bottle when you cant handle it, so always better to mix it water or milk just like HOBC if your car does not need it.


    I have a mercedes it has a 65litre tank I have tried regular as well as pure HOBC and a mixture, its not the very latest direct injection engine its most happy with a 50/50 ratio. even on regular petrol it does not knock as the computer changes the ignition timing to suit the low octane fuel but you can feel a change, however using pure hi octane compared to mixture does not make any difference as the car engine design cannot take advantage of that higher ron fuel when it does not need it.
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    without digging and debating the RON rating available randomly in metro cities I'd say top up tank with the fuel which is available across the metro cities of Pakistan.
    @uzmujeeb agreed, i traveled over 15000 km over the coastal highway between 2005 & 2013 and still randomly venture to Khuzdar & Gawader. The quality (ron rating ) of Iranian fuel is very high compared to fuel sold in Pakistan. Fuel average per tank full is approx 20% economical.

    again i'd say stick to fuel quality which is available across the fuel stations. RON rating is meaning less in our country where basic education, basic health & drinking water is not considered essentials of life.


    Quote Originally Posted by uzeemujeeb View Post
    bhai jan petrol petrol hota hai gari chalni chahyeay trouble free.

    on serious note: The Iranian petrol we get across the balochistan is far better compared to what is sold by local fuel blending companies in Pakistan. in a Indus corolla 12 valve carb engine using iranian petrol 43 liter topped tank always churned out 560 km city drive & 580 km highway drive. while the very same corolla while topped up in Islamabad never performed over 470 km before top up.

    am sure ron rating has some effect over engine performance
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    Name:  ImageUploadedByPW Forums1467294854.436454.jpg
Views: 281
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    Using hi octane is only waste of money nothing else


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    Quote Originally Posted by ayub.anjum View Post
    Name:  ImageUploadedByPW Forums1467294854.436454.jpg
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    Using hi octane is only waste of money nothing else


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    I think you are confusing manufacturer minimum specifications for fuel with recommendations. If you personally ask them, they will recommend you to use higher fuel RON ratting. Reason? Maintaining the power as designed for the engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by talhabinomar View Post
    As far as Hi Octane is concern, i have seen that the engine knocking will be reduced up to great extent, the fuel efficiency will increase and the engine performance will be enhanced.

    Getting back to the original topic, If your car has a knock sensor and the ECU the ability to adjust the spark timing sufficiently your car will take advantage of better fuel. Though even if it couldn't, the better burn control of a higher rated fuel would benefit the engine by reducing stress on the internals and you would notice this as quieter running. And I think the benefits you see will vary from car to car depending on the compression ratio.
    Talking about efficiency, higher octane fuels allow the compression ratio of the engine to be higher, and the higher the compression ratio, the more efficient the engine. The compression ratio of most engines is not allowed to change significantly, so if your engine has a 10:1 compression ratio, you will not get any better fuel economy with a higher octane fuel, the compression ratio is already set, and it is this parameter which affects efficiency. The exact same engine using a 13:1 compression ratio for instance will be more efficient, but it will require higher octane fuel.

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    I dont understand why all of PW users suddenly start posting american or UK car specs, american or UK fuel prices and types. They have different mandates for fuel and emmissions requirements than Pakistan.

    HOBC is not some medicine or magic elixir, its a type of fuel which can be specced by a manufacturer to use in their engines. The reason higher performance port injection engines required this fuel was due to higher compression ratio - the tighter the squeeze the more the tendency for the fuel to self explode - Higher octane negates this and allows a slower and more controlled burn in those engines. Using this slower burning fuel in an engine already having a lower compression will result in poor combustion and poor performance too. This poor combustion can lead to soot buildup and other problems.

    newer DI engines can have incredibly high CR and still work on lower octane fuel as the spray of the fuel is removing the heat from the cylinder charge e.g. newer Mazda DI engines are above 13:1 CR yet still work perfectly well on 87 MON fuel in USA while older mercedes engines with 10:1 CR require 93 MON fuel to operate reliably.

    so best stick with whatever your manufacturer has stated in the user manual and if you suspect fuel quality issues then take it up with the blender like PSO etc - your case will be weighted if you have a locally supported car not a gray import.

    e.g. If I bring a caddilac escalade to Pakistan, fill it up with regular fuel and it doesnt behave correctly after proof of analysis and I complain to the fuel provider they will tell me to get lost, but if I have a local brand like a toyota corolla - I have a case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by walzor View Post
    I think you are confusing manufacturer minimum specifications for fuel with recommendations. If you personally ask them, they will recommend you to use higher fuel RON ratting. Reason? Maintaining the power as designed for the engine.




    Getting back to the original topic, If your car has a knock sensor and the ECU the ability to adjust the spark timing sufficiently your car will take advantage of better fuel. Though even if it couldn't, the better burn control of a higher rated fuel would benefit the engine by reducing stress on the internals and you would notice this as quieter running. And I think the benefits you see will vary from car to car depending on the compression ratio.
    Talking about efficiency, higher octane fuels allow the compression ratio of the engine to be higher, and the higher the compression ratio, the more efficient the engine. The compression ratio of most engines is not allowed to change significantly, so if your engine has a 10:1 compression ratio, you will not get any better fuel economy with a higher octane fuel, the compression ratio is already set, and it is this parameter which affects efficiency. The exact same engine using a 13:1 compression ratio for instance will be more efficient, but it will require higher octane fuel.
    Well this is quite a hell of information for a lyman but it will be beneficial for me in future for any discussions. Thanks Brother

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    Quote Originally Posted by talhabinomar View Post
    Well this is quite a hell of information for a lyman but it will be beneficial for me in future for any discussions. Thanks Brother
    You're welcome.

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