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Thread: LIANA 1st Gear Problem. Need Help.

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    Default LIANA 1st Gear Problem. Need Help.

    I have Liana LXI with manual transmission. My car 1st gear is very hard to shift. some time it shift easily, sometime shift hardly and some time it can not be shift until double clutch press. When car is not moving then its OK. There is no grinding sound while shifting. all other gears are fine. Things I have done are:
    1- Changed gear oil.
    2- Changed master and slave cylinders kits after cleaning both cylinders. (Seals ets).
    3- Changed Kabli clutch+pressure plate.
    But the problem is still remain. Please somebody give me expert advice that next what should I do? what is the cause of this prob?

    Regards
    Nisar


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    Is the clutch hard?
    Did you bleed the clutch system?
    At what point does the clutch engage?
    Does the shift lever feel out of alignment?
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    Why do you need to put car in first gear when its moving.....If the first gear is engaging without any problem when the car is standing still then there should be no problem with gear, first gear should only be engaged if your car is standing still or at lower then 5km/h speed...

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    I think the gear box have some fault if it was a issue of clutch or any thing related to gears ever gear would have became hard

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    TO Proverbial_Slang
    1- Clutch is not hard and as I have said that, last week I have changed both clutch+pressure plate.
    2- I have bleed clutch system, service it and pour new clutch oil (brake oil 21).
    3- The clutch engage as normal as before. the only problem is during shifting (lever changing) for 1st gear only.
    4- I don't understand about lever alignment. Plz can you explain?

    TO anc:
    Dear bro I meant for car moving is that when you have to cross the breaker and slow down under 8 Kmph. For any car if gears are OK then any gear can be shift at any speed upon fully pressed clutch (not for driving).

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    problem solved or still present

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    the problem is inside the gear box
    i was having the same problem in my charade the first gear was not engaging while the car was moving
    got the gear opened and mechanic change some ring type thing of first gear they call it "****"
    Its been 2 years now gears are smooth and silky

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    What I mean to ask is if the gear lever has any loose play when in any of the gears. Does it need manhandling to align for a proper shift?

    Which brand gear oil and which grade did you use for the oil change? Is it difficult to shift into 1st only in the morning or even when the car is warmed up?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gulan17s View Post
    TO Proverbial_Slang
    1- Clutch is not hard and as I have said that, last week I have changed both clutch+pressure plate.
    2- I have bleed clutch system, service it and pour new clutch oil (brake oil 21).
    3- The clutch engage as normal as before. the only problem is during shifting (lever changing) for 1st gear only.
    4- I don't understand about lever alignment. Plz can you explain?

    TO anc:
    Dear bro I meant for car moving is that when you have to cross the breaker and slow down under 8 Kmph. For any car if gears are OK then any gear can be shift at any speed upon fully pressed clutch (not for driving).

    so you are saying that I can shift to second gear at 200 km/h?
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    Hey experts! You do not downshift to 1st gear when the car is moving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xulfiqar View Post
    so you are saying that I can shift to second gear at 200 km/h?
    I think you didn,t see my last 3 words (not for driving). This was just the answer for your question "Why do you need to put car in first gear when its moving..." When u press the clutch fully, gears/gear shaft come to stand still although you are going into 200kmph. that time you shift to any gears as the gear shaft is standstill. problem will occur when you release the clutch if car speed in not according to the shifted gear. That's why i have written as "not for driving".
    if you say that ""Why do you need to put car in first gear when its moving..." so for every breaker to pass we have to completely stop the car then Chang the 1st gear then starts to move. annoying...........

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    you can shift to to any gears upon fully pressed clutch at any speed (just for checking, not for driving without proper speed for each gear) ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by gulan17s View Post
    I think you didn,t see my last 3 words (not for driving). This was just the answer for your question "Why do you need to put car in first gear when its moving..." When u press the clutch fully, gears/gear shaft come to stand still although you are going into 200kmph. that time you shift to any gears as the gear shaft is standstill. problem will occur when you release the clutch if car speed in not according to the shifted gear. That's why i have written as "not for driving".
    if you say that ""Why do you need to put car in first gear when its moving..." so for every breaker to pass we have to completely stop the car then Chang the 1st gear then starts to move. annoying...........

    I believe you do not know how manual transmissions work - the output shaft spins if the vehicle is moving. the next gear coming into shift is at different rpm (hence the syncro cone speeds up/slows down the pair of gears so that they can mesh quietly)

    For experiment - speed your car to 190 km/h and then try to move the lever to 2nd gear - dont pop the clutch just try to shift it - it wont happen as the rpm on the syncro ring would be so high it would not actually be able to scooch the gear into mesh. You will hear a very strong retaliation too. You might smell some clutch too as the clutch disc is not meant to spin to about formula1 rpm

    In all - there is no such thing as gearshaft and the only time a transmission fully stops is when the vehicle wheels stop rolling and you press the clutch pedal in
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    @Xulfiqar is it true that shifting to 1st unless the car is stationary, can jerk the transmission and damage it?

    Actually my swift knocks a bit when you go past a speed breaker in 2nd gear. (Even though im just touching the accelerator pedal)

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    first gear has synchronizer on modern gearboxes - you can shift it to 1st while vehicle is creeping - shift gently dont act like you are dom toretto in F&F who shifts 35 gears on a street as if he is throwing a metal rod into the car.
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    Well i am also having exactly the same problem..i have a liana rxi 07, i have changed the clutch/ pressure plate but the problem still persists...

    I would like to add one more thing here that i am totally unsatisfied with the brakes of liana rxi..the car skids whenever the brakes are applied hard...

    But i do admire the built quality of liana... i think it has a strong body and it can survive the high impact crashes...

    All in all...liana with poor resale...is a total disinvestment...agar tang nahi kar rahe to 2 sal bhe sakoon say nikal lay ge but aik dafa tang karna shur karday..then its a nightmare..

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    Quote Originally Posted by gulan17s View Post
    you can shift to to any gears upon fully pressed clutch at any speed (just for checking, not for driving without proper speed for each gear) ).
    As @Xulfiqar has already explained the function of synchronize rings in the box. My post will be to confirm if indeed the first gear synchronizer has failed or some other problem. You need to double de-clutch into first gear. In the old days when cars did not have synchromesh gear boxes, all drivers used to change gears using this method.

    This is how that is done:

    Drive normally on a quiet street with no traffic in second gear or third if you like at say 30 Km/h. Press the clutch fully and the brake lightly to bring the car speed to 10k km/h. While the clutch is still pressed, release the brake so you are now coasting along at a steady 10 km/h. Next move the gear into neutral and release the clutch, you are still coasting along in neutral with the clutch released at about 10 km/h. Next, quickly press and release the accelerator pedal. During the pressing and releasing the accelerator pedal ensure the engine touches about 3000 RPM. Then immediately press the clutch and move the gear into first. If first is engaged easily, then you have a synchronize ring issue. If still the gear is hard to engage there is some other problem. The revving of the engine in neutral with the clutch released spins the gear train on the primary shaft to about the same speed as the gear train on the secondary shaft so that they may engage easily. The skill is in revving the engine just right to match the gear speeds. Too much rev and the input gears spin too fast and vice versa.

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    Default LIANA 1st Gear Problem

    I am having same problem with Liana Lxi. Can anyone please help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fahadijaz View Post
    I am having same problem with Liana Lxi. Can anyone please help.
    when last time you changed your transmission oil

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    Quote Originally Posted by gulan17s View Post
    TO Proverbial_Slang
    1- Clutch is not hard and as I have said that, last week I have changed both clutch+pressure plate.
    2- I have bleed clutch system, service it and pour new clutch oil (brake oil 21).
    3- The clutch engage as normal as before. the only problem is during shifting (lever changing) for 1st gear only.
    4- I don't understand about lever alignment. Plz can you explain?

    TO anc:
    Dear bro I meant for car moving is that when you have to cross the breaker and slow down under 8 Kmph. For any car if gears are OK then any gear can be shift at any speed upon fully pressed clutch (not for driving).
    Let me have a stab at explaining (4):

    See the picture below:

    There are two cables going from the gear lever to the gear box. One cable transmits the left/right motion of the lever to the gearbox and the other transmits the front/back motion.

    By misalignment it is understood that the setting of these cables is incorrect. So lets say that when the driver moves the gear lever to the left and forward (engaging first gear), the cables do not properly move the forks within the gearbox left or right or front or back to the correct amount. Thus the driver may feel difficulty in finding the gear he/she is looking for. I hope the above explanation is adequate. If this is the the problem, correction is very easy. Just slack off the check nuts adjust the length of the outer wire and tighten check nut. Much like adjusting a motorcycle clutch cable. If there is no adjustment and the cable has stretched, then cable will need replacement.

    Oh I forgot to mention that at the base of the gear lever there should be nylon bushes (items 10, 11 maybe also 7 in the picture below). If these bushes are worn, there will be excessive play in the gear lever and the net result will be difficulty in engaging gears.

    LIANA 1st Gear Problem Need Help -1513323

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