Blatant censorship on PW

[cardinal]

Let me take this opportunity to bring it to PakWheelers' attention that what makes this community truly special is the sheer number of people, auto-enthusiasts or not, who frequent the forums, among other things. Let me also point out that the technological barrier to entry to set up a similar website is pretty low.

The recent discussion on PAF's F-16 Block 52 fighter jets has shed light on flagrant and unashamed abuse of powers by hitherto unknown/unidentified moderators who have quietly deleted others' posts without any warning or any apparent breach of the site's terms and conditions. I have had at least two people bring it to my attention that their posts were quietly deleted when they were making perfectly legitimate statements/voicing their opinion. And then some self-righteous Mod(s) (?) came along and closed the thread altogether without giving the other side the appropriate time or chance to respond. If that is the case, then these are some very serious allegations and it will have far-reaching consequences for this website.

The PakWheels administration needs to set the ground rules for future discussions, and enforce it without any discrimination. They can start with making sure that no Mod participates in a discussion and then tries to influence the outcome in any way. If a Mod joins a discussion, he should clearly identify himself and then not moderate that very thread to his liking. Each edit or comment deletion should be clearly marked by the Mod's name and a reason on why the action is being taken. I know some Mods religiously follow this, but it should be made compulsory across the board, no exceptions.

If anyone else has anything to add to this, please feel free to do so.

[qwertypoiu]

1) you posted in Wrong forums
2) there is already a Sticky thread why not post there ?
https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/site-feedback-suggestions/155039-pw-complaint-thread-k-shikayat-cell-2010-a

[cardinal]

Yup, I noticed that I posted in the wrong section. Sorry.

But this is an attempt to highlight a specific case and that too a very recent one.

//MOD EDIT: Thread moved to correct forum.//

[MominHaq]

The thread was located in the Professional forums.

Let me copy the rules pertaining to professional forums:

Only serious discussions are allowed in these forums. Off-topic and irrelevant replies (e.g. just LOL, smilies, 'good' etc) that do not make any meaningful contribution to the on-going discussion are not allowed. If users violate these rules, their rights to post in the forums will be revoked.
The red part includes stuff like personal remarks and personal attacks.

If you go through the thread once again you will notice personal attacks posted by members that are still there which should have been deleted immediately but were not and memebers were cut some slack.

An example of these posts(which NOW are deleted but they were there for quite some time)

I can post several others but this one takes the cake.

I wanted to participate but just saw vcheng's

Adam Walinsky: “If there are twelve clowns in a ring, you can jump in the middle and start reciting Shakespeare, but to VCHENG, you'll just be the thirteenth clown”.

I thought the same thing when mr. vcheng modified his signature some time ago. To him, anyone who disagrees with his viewpoint is a clown while he recites passages from Hamlet.

To mr. vcheng:

> Ustaadji, I am NOT a "senior defense analyst" nor am I "related" to "VIP"s nor am I a "fighter jock" nor do I know "professional F-16 pilots" nor do I have "degrees" from "eminent institutions", but I am trying to keep this discussion civil and informative at least from my side."
Yeah. I noticed. You are not any of these things. You do have the power of Google at your fingertips. Keep at it, you're going places with your newfound superpower.

To mr. mominhaq:
Suck up much?
Keep at it. Maybe mr. vcheng will let you borrow his vette again?
[QUOTE=MominHaq;2661497]... for the few of us who appreciate civility and not mere egocentric banters.[/QUOTE]

You should consider changing your profile picture from that of Tiger Woods to the clown mr. vcheng has. PLease also look up civility and egocentric from a dictionary at the earliest.
To everyone:
Mr. Vcheng has jingoistic faith in the absolute technical superiority of his adopted homeland (the mothership) and no amount of reasoning can make him consider your views. He will stoop low and attack the person who holds views different than his own, e.g. his latest post is a cheap jab at mr. aireometrix and mr. cardinal. Read it again and you'll notice his multiple blows below the belt.

Save your breath because he will believe what he wants to believe .
I won't bother replying here anymore because civilized discourse is next to impossible with such people. peace.

Now, moderators are NOT required to give a reason to users upon deleting their posts. If the post is not compliant with the thread, it will be deleted no questions asked. Other moderators CAN however see the deleted posts and also the moderator who deleted the post always leaves a reason for the deletion which only the moderators and admins can see so that they may undelete the post if it is compliant.

The moderators are not required to announce that they are moderators in every thread because the moderators are listed in the rules posted for this website as linked below:

https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/site-feedback-suggestions/72952-rules-regulations-updated

[speedster_101]

I totally agree with the topic starter i.e @Cardinal that these Pakwheels moderators should behave. They start arguing with other members on discussion forums and then keep the posts which they want and delete the ones which they don't want. They behave as if they have all the knowledge of this world but most of the times the other person is more knowledgeable and having logical reasons but these mods delete his posts. Pakwheels administration should take serious action against this issue, otherwise decent people will stop visiting that website due to these uneducated mods.

[cardinal]

@MominHaq:
Now that was a very informative link. Thank you.

I, however, do think that this guideline from the same page is a bit excessive:

"12: Arguing with administrators or moderators of this website regarding their actions is not permitted. If you have any concerns that needs to be addressed, please use Report Abuse feature. Violation of this rule will result in administrative action that may include a permanent ban from this website."

Please discuss.

[AmmarFaiz]

I agree mods especially some think that they can enforce their argument by deleting others posts either dont talk or talk and take the arguments like a man lol

[MominHaq]

@MominHaq:
Now that was a very informative link. Thank you.

I, however, do think that this guideline from the same page is a bit excessive:

"12: Arguing with administrators or moderators of this website regarding their actions is not permitted. If you have any concerns that needs to be addressed, please use Report Abuse feature. Violation of this rule will result in administrative action that may include a permanent ban from this website."

Please discuss.

Moderators, such as myself, only implement whatever the rules of this website are.

If it's removed/changed, I will switch the deleting criteria accordingly, if it isn't changed, well I still will have to implement it.

I hope that clears it up for you.

[Bad_Cheetah]

it hasn't occured with me before on this site, been a member since 2006-7. but unfortunately it occured a couple of days back when my post ( which i highly doubt was off topic ) got deleted,

i had asked a series of questions under airomerix's reply, and he had replied to them, i was about to read the reply which he has written, that i refreshed the page, and it wasn't there anymore, the MOD had deleted it, and there wasnt any reason listed.

Since i wanted to reach to conclusion, regarding what was the actual fact about the planes,i posted another reply,somewhat in this sense," i wanted to read what airomerix had to say about my questions, but the post has been deleted, i would like airomerix to answer to my queries again if he could " it was something like this which i had typed, and the very moment i hit the refresh button, the page appears with my this post deleted, it wasnt a personal attack, wasnt a foul language which i had used, wasnt either a smiley, i just wanted an answer, and that too specifically from airomerix, since the other active member did not attend to my questions. i dont think this was an off topic thing which got deleted, or was it?

[MominHaq]

it hasn't occured with me before on this site, been a member since 2006-7. but unfortunately it occured a couple of days back when my post ( which i highly doubt was off topic ) got deleted,

i had asked a series of questions under airomerix's reply, and he had replied to them, i was about to read the reply which he has written, that i refreshed the page, and it wasn't there anymore, the MOD had deleted it, and there wasnt any reason listed.

Since i wanted to reach to conclusion, regarding what was the actual fact about the planes,i posted another reply,somewhat in this sense," i wanted to read what airomerix had to say about my questions, but the post has been deleted, i would like airomerix to answer to my queries again if he could " it was something like this which i had typed, and the very moment i hit the refresh button, the page appears with my this post deleted, it wasnt a personal attack, wasnt a foul language which i had used, wasnt either a smiley, i just wanted an answer, and that too specifically from airomerix, since the other active member did not attend to my questions. i dont think this was an off topic thing which got deleted, or was it?

Red part: As I have mentioned above, members cannot see the reason for the deletion, nor are moderators required to give the reason to the members. However the moderators ARE required to give the reason to other moderators and admins.

Black part: Yes it was, since the first reply was deemed off topic and the second one was in relation to the first one(which is now deleted) that too becomes off topic.

Furthermore, if a post which has been deleted and another members quoted that deleted post, the entire post will be deleted since the quoted post was already not suitable for the thread.

[Bad_Cheetah]

Red part: As I have mentioned above, members cannot see the reason for the deletion, nor are moderators required to give the reason to the members. However the moderators ARE required to give the reason to other moderators and admins.

Black part: Yes it was, since the first reply was deemed off topic and the second one was in relation to the first one(which is now deleted) that too becomes off topic.

Furthermore, if a post which has been deleted and another members quoted that deleted post, the entire post will be deleted since the quoted post was already not suitable for the thread.

it would have a positive effect if the reason could be mentioned, so that the posters could abide by the rules more, without having to come up with threads like these.

ohkk! since his reply was off topic as explained by you, and i wanted to read it,( which obv i couldnt in the end ), my request for the answers got deleted as well, quiet understandable. I wonder it had knock some sense, instantly into airomerix, who did reply to my questions but this time his post lasted, good work with the deletion, it does work.

[MominHaq]

it would have a positive effect if the reason could be mentioned, so that the posters could abide by the rules more, without having to come up with threads like these.
.

You see, currently there is no ability in the setup on PakWheels to display a reason to regular members.

Also, PMing each member to give the reason for deletion is quite tedious and will take away from actually moderating posts which are against the rules.

If admins require us to give a reason to a member, whichever way they find suitable, we are then required to do it, but currently we are not required to do as such.

[VCheng]

If there were censorship at PW, WHICH THERE IS NOT, this thread would have long been deleted.

[Bang]

I like dogs , dogs are cool , i got two

[shahid217]

I believe it would be a good approach to mention the reason rather then deleting at the back end. I don't mean it for justification only but for indirect warning for others who might do the same.

IMO what already posted doesn't mean more then what is about to be posted...

[VCheng]

I believe it would be a good approach to mention the reason rather then deleting at the back end. I don't mean it for justification only but for indirect warning for others who might do the same.

IMO what already posted doesn't mean more then what is about to be posted...

That would work for most, but there are some diehards who simply refuse to accept any such suggestions, so in those cases, it is a distinct waste of everybody's time.

Some jiyalas prefer to learn lessons the hard way.

[Ahmad357]

oh really? mr mominhaq how biased can you get?

All the things Vcheng said to airomerix were not personal attacks when he compares him talking to senior airforce officials to mr vcheng himself talking to a hot dog guy? just one example u want more i can fish em out before you or vcheng decide to delete it.

MY POSTS HAVE BEEN DELETED. ALL OF THEM. i CANNOT post on that topic as whenever i do it is PROMPTLY DELETED. i tried posting 5 times and my posts were deleted WITOUHT ANY REASON. im not even sure if this post will remain here for too long either.

[MominHaq]

oh really? mr mominhaq how biased can you get?

All the things Vcheng said to airomerix were not personal attacks when he compares him talking to senior airforce officials to mr vcheng himself talking to a hot dog guy? just one example u want more i can fish em out before you or vcheng decide to delete it.

MY POSTS HAVE BEEN DELETED. ALL OF THEM. i CANNOT post on that topic as whenever i do it is PROMPTLY DELETED. i tried posting 5 times and my posts were deleted WITOUHT ANY REASON. im not even sure if this post will remain here for too long either.

Your concern in this post has already been disussed already in the posts above.

Whatever the offtopic replies were, they were deleted(say for a few in the beginning).

I can highlight some of the posts that you made if you say so but I don't think they have any purpose here.

All the replies that were deleted have been looked over by other moderatprs and so far none of them have restored them, which means that the deletion is correct.

[Ahmad357]

haha ofcourse

[Bang]

MOD EDIT: Stick to the posting guidelines please.