4AGE 20V Blacktop Ae70

[levin]

We Are Actually Going To Use A High Micron Foam Or Filter Element....!

Yes We Know The Difference In Dust Environment Of Khi And Foreign Countries But We Will Make Sure Its Nicely Protected...!!

Uni Filters Are Good But They Also Use Foam....And How Good The Foam Is...! It Always Have Passage For Small Dust Particles...

We Will Be Using A Filter Element Thing To Sort It Out....There Are 2 Options

Feed Engine More Air With More Dust
Feed Engine Less Air With Low Dust...!

Filter Element Will Work...Will Give Them A Try Soon

i bought them and used them, i didnt argue,

there is a lab somewhere testing filter thickness and designs what layers are used they are scientists developing chemicals for foam filters.

im half pakistani who argues ,,yes. but donest go on argueing forever,,!!!!!!!!!

i simply went ahead bought offroad filters and felt the performance..:),and i thought i can easily recomend them:D for anyone who wants performance parts fr 20v. how to use oil is very impt also, there is a big caution sticker which comes with the packaging.

u found a good 20v , save it frm dust , in usa peple have more souces for experiments still they go for branded products,

i have played ard with element filters, there is still some experiment parts lying ard in friend's house and at mechanics.

[Xulfiqar]

buy some cheap cotton socks, or cotton leggings for the time being.

[iamadee]

buy some cheap cotton socks, or cotton leggings for the time being.

Waha Wah!!!!

Subhan Allah!!!!

Kum kharach Bala Nasheen

Wah!!

[SER_GTR]

LMAO....!! He's Correct..Cotton Can Also Be A Good Filter .....A Good Quality One Infact...!

@Levin...I Won't Argue On FOAM Part Since I Know But Its Is Difficult For Us To Get Filters From Abroad .....Expensive....No Source Whatever Reasons Are...We Have To Find A Cheap And Useful Alternative...!!!

Using Filter Element Is One....!!

[SER_GTR]

Talking About Using Only Filter Element...Not That CONE Filters.....

[levin]

buy some cheap cotton socks, or cotton leggings for the time being.

they used so much $$$ on chrome. paint engine , paint this paint that, in the end, .......... cotton socks?

you know how fast is air suction at high rpm. this will tear, get stuck on throttle or go inside engine.

what exactly is the issue?. how much space inbetween horns edge rings?. these horns are not straight like i have, they are cup shaped.

the filtersocks wont hold on this shape? or too less space inbetween ring edges to fit filters? . can use "tie" to hold filters in their place

[SER_GTR]

Rashid Bhai.... We Are Karachities )

Already Using A Mosquito Size Mesh Grill In B/w Manifold And Velocity Stacks..

I Didn't Let Maaz Drive It Out Of Garage W/o That Grill ....! Else Something Might Have Been Sucked Inn Till Now..!

So Anything Can Be Used For Now Including Cotton Socks

[levin]

remove grill and see the condition inside stack with tissue paper, there should be fine dust,

oil layer holds the dust, dry grill only blocks to some level but cannot hold the dust,

filters are washed periodically to remove stuck dust

[saadzae92]

air Filter element design is no rocket science ...........just about using the right materials and tools....

I have dissected Uni and K&N filter socks ......and I did not find any magical beings attacking dust particles like those air conditioning ads that you see very often.

We need to get rid of this sad thinking that virtually everything made in the west is vastly superior to ours .....even if they are just marketing toilet paper as a filtration element.....

I know that those filter go through extensive testing but I can tell you from being an Architect (student) that you never open a door twenty-million time to see if it opens ,.....you know what it does ,use that data to design something (secondary research rule #1)

Just spend money on parts that we cannot make or possibly have no way of making
case in point Engine electronics (piggybacks, standalone ECU , wideband.....quality welded manifolds etc etc .....)

thank you.

[levin]

yr not correct. you should not had written what you wrote to misguide people. k&n is a very good brand, uni and few wel known brands make world class rally racing filters.

i dont know what you did to see what level of dust grains , what kind of microscope you used, what kind of lab you have.

you cant rid of sad thinking of west, but yr using street version of formula altantic n/a race engine.

just use what we cant do ourselves?????, what did we knew abt 20v in PK.

lol.

we use paper element air filter in Pk. very few people in pk actually know how to oil a foam filter, i recently found this out.

the paper element is not used in straight sheets, its in zig zag form to be stronger, why didnt you write this?.. you have seen guard caburator filter or corolla gli 1.6 air filter

where in pk you have seen paper elements stuffed on itb?

you have seen foam filters on street bikes, why dnt they use guard paper element?

[Xulfiqar]

yr not correct. you should not had written what you wrote to misguide people. k&n is a very good brand, uni and few wel known brands make world class rally racing filters.

i dont know what you did to see what level of dust grains , what kind of microscope you used, what kind of lab you have.

you cant rid of sad thinking of west, but yr using street version of formula altantic n/a race engine.

just use what we cant do ourselves?????, what did we knew abt 20v in PK.

lol.

we use paper element air filter in Pk. very few people in pk actually know how to oil a foam filter, i recently found this out.

the paper element is not used in straight sheets, its in zig zag form to be stronger, why didnt you write this?.. you have seen guard caburator filter or corolla gli 1.6 air filter

where in pk you have seen paper elements stuffed on itb?

you have seen foam filters on street bikes, why dnt they use guard paper element?

To be correct K&N air filters are pieces of $hit, no matter if it is drop in element or a dedicated cone element, it has holes large enough to pass rocks through, NO WAY in the world is that considered superior. Now speaking of free flowing, I measured airbox pressure with a handy dandy water based manometer and guess what, the airbox pressure was exactly the same as the OE paper filter, just damned louder with the K&N thing.

Now the reason I have suggested the use of cotton socks as temporary air filter media was because it actually works but has short life as it can clog up rather quick due to having no pleats lacks surface area. It would be better rather than condemning the engine to suck raw dust. If you think a 4AGE sucks air, try measuring the suction of a turbodiesel marine engine, some old models have mesh screens covered with cotton to serve as filters.

Ideally all 4 bores should join into a plenum airbox containing an oversized filter, that airbox should be fed from the front of the car (ram air) - that way you will have all the sound you want, and all the filteration you want - (motorcycles are built this way)

[SER_GTR]

Lolx....Interesting Discussion...!!

I Don't Get Why On Earth Did OEM Element Filter Will Not Work????

I Think We Underestimate Everything Here........Its Just Air Filter.......Take It As Air Filter...!

Its Engine Not Some Dengue Infected Patient ... We Have To Make Sure That We Stop Dust As Much As We Can Entering Into Engine....

As i already Said...If U Want No Dust.....Block The Intakes On 1st Place.....

If You Gonna use ITB's You Have To Sacrifice something....! i Bet with Any of Filters On ITB's....some Of Dust Might Find Its Way Inside.....!!!! Specially if They Are Foam Type...! UNI K&N KFC Mcdonalds or watever They Are From

[saadzae92]

yr not correct. you should not had written what you wrote to misguide people. k&n is a very good brand, uni and few wel known brands make world class rally racing filters.

i dont know what you did to see what level of dust grains , what kind of microscope you used, what kind of lab you have.

you cant rid of sad thinking of west, but yr using street version of formula altantic n/a race engine.

just use what we cant do ourselves?????, what did we knew abt 20v in PK.

lol.

we use paper element air filter in Pk. very few people in pk actually know how to oil a foam filter, i recently found this out.

the paper element is not used in straight sheets, its in zig zag form to be stronger, why didnt you write this?.. you have seen guard caburator filter or corolla gli 1.6 air filter

where in pk you have seen paper elements stuffed on itb?

you have seen foam filters on street bikes, why dnt they use guard paper element?

1.oK first of all I never said that K&N , UNI, Pipercross were bad brands ......but the $100 price tag does not justify their price where we can have 90% of the their filtration at 1/4th of the price ....

2.I never used microscopes .....but I did have a chance to open the components of the crankshaft and found no damage(grooves) by dust particles .....smooth as a whistle and whithin factory tolerances so ......no metal particles lost there or anywhere else!

Thirdly you said people lack knowledge to oil filters so in turn should be like sheep and buy whatever the supposed ''racing mega shop'' has on the top shelf .....nonsense an engine is as good as the guy tuning it ....anticipate and plan for every obstacle....

Now coming to the part in bold and I must say that you have to still learn alot about Air filters

You said that the paper elements are ''zig-zagged'' to be ''stronger''
Now at this point I'd like to ask stronger as in for what purpose......Sir the ''Zig-zag'' as you call it or ''Pleated'' paper elements are made so to PROVIDE MAXIMUM FILTRATION SURFACE AREA!!!

if they pleated it to be stronger ....God almighty help us....because the designers have taken their eye off the target.....''designing a system to keep particulate out of the engine''

now I could go on and talk about how OEM paper elements and how they are supposed to perform in every place from sahara to the arctic etc etc vs foam are different and improve engine response and free up a few horses ....but all i'd say is in the end it is about balance

Balance

Filtration vs Performance
Longevity vs quick easy replacement

etc etc......paper elements like MANN are made to last you should see the work that goes into them .......but when performance is on the table we make compromises.

now at this point I would like to draw your attention to the Australasian Touring car series ..........those cars run open ITBs for a whole season (I know that they have super budgets) but a complete season on open ITBs on even the private teams .....

The thing is Engines are not supposed to be the ''Untouched Virgin'' of your car that needs pampering and care like dandelions ......Engines are designed to run and run hard.....get over it there will be broken parts ...things will need replacing ........but one should not ''mechanically rape'' their engine by treating it like a queen.

on an ending not........make a couple of DIY filters ......replace and clean them twice as many times ........hey makes for a good sunday!

thank you.

[levin]

@xulfiqar

k&n has good free flow, AND i was not expecting such a reply from you.

i have to presume that you are considering k&n without oil,

i wrote above , oil holds the fine dust.

(it sticks to oil). i hope is clear now.

the discussion is not on n/a engine and an engine with additional turbo on it..

@sergtr
i didnt knew, the discussion is going this long, k&n has million miles warranty in some countries , that works only if its used carefully.

same with foam filter designs, there are usually two layers of different types and thickness is by measurement. and again oil is used to hold fine dust and filter has to be cleaned.

element filter is not reusable, surface area is less on itb, tears quick. yes cheap,

but is yr car cheap??.

[levin]

soggy element air filter is useless piece of paper:),

your not on circuit track,, drifts cancelled due to wet weather..airfilter got soggy

[levin]

@saadaze

discussion is on itb. and i know zigzag is for max surface.) and in long run , foam filter sock will take the cake on this thread, let the men do their experiments first.

it has happened in lahore last year , it will happen in khi now.

in the end raceboy knew what he wanted on itb

[saadzae92]

@saadaze

discussion is on itb. and i know zigzag is for max surface.) and in long run , foam filter sock will take the cake on this thread, let the men do their experiments first

Now you've made me feel less of a man.

thank you.

[levin]

yr as much a man as you feel.

now what conefilter oil was used in the case of engine ruined by air filter?

how sure you are, unwanted stuff in engine was not added while engine oil change?

[Xulfiqar]

@xulfiqar

k&n has good free flow, AND i was not expecting such a reply from you.

i have to presume that you are considering k&n without oil,

i wrote above , oil holds the fine dust.

(it sticks to oil). i hope is clear now.

the discussion is not on n/a engine and an engine with additional turbo on it..

@sergtr
i didnt knew, the discussion is going this long, k&n has million miles warranty in some countries , that works only if its used carefully.

same with foam filter designs, there are usually two layers of different types and thickness is by measurement. and again oil is used to hold fine dust and filter has to be cleaned.

element filter is not reusable, surface area is less on itb, tears quick. yes cheap,

but is yr car cheap??.

ok - the hoard of small motorcycles we have in Pakistan are using oil soaked foam filters (best example Honda CG125), If you ever used them you know how to clean its filter and oil it again. Every chota of a motorcycle mechanic knows how to oil that filter. And its a two part filter one part is dense one part is loose.

Now back to my hatred of K&N, I have got a K&N filter for my mercedes benz lying with me here, its a POS, WHY you ask - its got 1/4 of the surface area of the original paper MANN-Hummel OE air filter, secondly when put to sunlight its got gaping holes that let the light come through even when freshly done with oil or dusted with dust stuck to oil (as K&N says the more dust the better the filtration). Lastly I tested the airbox pressure with it installed and with the OE one both at idle and at speed (my car is NA with a true cold air intake system), my car's engine is a diesel (hence sucks air like mad due to no throttle blade, has two flaps that tune the length of the manifold to increase suction vacuum for added torque - still both the OE paper one and the K&N showed similar numbers on the water gauge test.

Now - kya karein. million mile warranty that is provided by K&N is not accepted by any manufacturer, if you bust the engine due to running a muddy air filter - you pay for a new engine.

speaking of which - hey SER - buy a Honda CG125 filter and see if its oval mouth can be stretched over the throttle cone.

[levin]

light must pass through.. read the k&n cleaning guide. oil stops the fine dust, k&n comes pre oiled,

this polyurethane foam filter is is recomended o itb.

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on foam filter,, oil holds the dust,, foam is a skeleton to hold oil.