ACCA Articleship or Internship?

[BackToCivicFaiez]

we would love to, if CA was not made artificially tough. their passing criteria is simply not justified. there shud be a boarder line, even if its 80%, ppl should KNOW what to target n if they ll pass or not if they get that much. 2ndly, ACCA is cheaper i think in a way as it can get u foreign degrees n is also know internationally. it also takes much less time to complete then CA. i think all of these hold significant importance. CA is just well respected because they have monopoly over pakistan. just like PakSuzuki has with its mehran. im not saying CA isnt gud but their systems surely arent! n no one took any risk, ACCAs are doing just fine. theres no education which guarantees u a job right after u re done with it. same goes for acca.

So does ICAEW and ACCA together have monopoly in uk or would they allow ICAP students to do article ship there? and other bodies have monopoly in their countries?

also it is complete bs that ca is more expensive...look at the paper fees for ACCA and then look at ICAP fees..I haven't checked with ACCA, but it can't be less than CA. CA is too cheap to be called expensive...

ICAP is a government institution, not a business. They have to make sure there are proper accounting practices being done, just like other countries have similar bodies in their countries. They were not satisfied by foreign degrees so they made new rules...

their passing criteria is 50% marks, that is 50 out of 100 marks. I don't know what is the confusion here. Students who have properly studied won't have any trouble figuring out how much they would have gotten. It is always the pandas who keep crying all the time...

majority people do CA cuz they heard there is anna paisa in there...and then when they get to the module C, D, they realize its not as easy as operating a tandoor and start blaming ICAP...

And frankly, CA course is not that difficult. E and F modules are the only ones where they have to use a little bit of their brain and that's where they get stuck somehow...The difficulty level of these modules is comparable to 2nd year engineering or so..

[rider4414]

I dont think that article-ship is easy to get now a days
1stly due to icap
2ndly if you dont have strong references
i am still struggling to get articles

[misteek]

thats what i believe too. im a finalist myself (if i clear the last 3 papers i ve attempted :P) n i have NO plans to work in an audit firm. atleast not long term. thats why im not even taking the tax n audit paper among the optional ones. i want to join industry, learn properly as to how a business is run successfully n then set up my own.

if u have similar plans, dont target audit firms (offcourse if u do get opportunity, u wudnt leave it, i wudnt leave it either). try to get into industry. if u want to be in audit, then u know which way to head. take decisions step by step.

The audit firms ARE taking acca's but they pay peanuts. a friend recently joined a well known local firm @ 6000rs per month. now that is humiliatingly low.

Dude, i am just sorry to see how ignorant you have been... you have no idea what learning in an industry and in an audit firm is. i am just laughing out loud at your words that you will learn properly in industry...hope you learn so

and for the other part, 6000 is the stipend not salary. where in the part of the word a person is paid more than this stipened.

Do u think any industry is going to accept you as a fresh candidate. Passing papers and performing practically are two different worlds.

I can only wish you best of luck with your determinations but you need to think out of this little circle where all your thinkings revolve.

Thankyou

[misteek]

So does ICAEW and ACCA together have monopoly in uk or would they allow ICAP students to do article ship there? and other bodies have monopoly in their countries?

also it is complete bs that ca is more expensive...look at the paper fees for ACCA and then look at ICAP fees..I haven't checked with ACCA, but it can't be less than CA. CA is too cheap to be called expensive...

ICAP is a government institution, not a business. They have to make sure there are proper accounting practices being done, just like other countries have similar bodies in their countries. They were not satisfied by foreign degrees so they made new rules...

their passing criteria is 50% marks, that is 50 out of 100 marks. I don't know what is the confusion here. Students who have properly studied won't have any trouble figuring out how much they would have gotten. It is always the pandas who keep crying all the time...

majority people do CA cuz they heard there is anna paisa in there...and then when they get to the module C, D, they realize its not as easy as operating a tandoor and start blaming ICAP...

And frankly, CA course is not that difficult. E and F modules are the only ones where they have to use a little bit of their brain and that's where they get stuck somehow...The difficulty level of these modules is comparable to 2nd year engineering or so..

I agree with you. CA had never been a primary option for all those students who after failing blame ICAP. when these guys dont get admission into engineering or medical or other field, just just join ICAP because this field has the most easiest entry requirements. i have never met a single guy whose primary interest was CA and he has failed.

[ahmadbila]

So does ICAEW and ACCA together have monopoly in uk or would they allow ICAP students to do article ship there? and other bodies have monopoly in their countries?

also it is complete bs that ca is more expensive...look at the paper fees for ACCA and then look at ICAP fees..I haven't checked with ACCA, but it can't be less than CA. CA is too cheap to be called expensive...

ICAP is a government institution, not a business. They have to make sure there are proper accounting practices being done, just like other countries have similar bodies in their countries. They were not satisfied by foreign degrees so they made new rules...

their passing criteria is 50% marks, that is 50 out of 100 marks. I don't know what is the confusion here. Students who have properly studied won't have any trouble figuring out how much they would have gotten. It is always the pandas who keep crying all the time...

majority people do CA cuz they heard there is anna paisa in there...and then when they get to the module C, D, they realize its not as easy as operating a tandoor and start blaming ICAP...

And frankly, CA course is not that difficult. E and F modules are the only ones where they have to use a little bit of their brain and that's where they get stuck somehow...The difficulty level of these modules is comparable to 2nd year engineering or so..

well im not update with the situation of UK regarding ICAP students but hey, we all know ICAEW and ICAP have mutual recognition that works for Pakistan, im sure they have similar situation in UK too so no, they DONT have monopoly there.

CA may be cheaper but which do u think is cheaper when u get a Bsc honz and an MBA degree from england with ACCA.? and now even HEC is awarding M.com degree to ACCAs. do the cost benefit analysis urself!

ICAP may be a govt organization n its purpose may not to make profit but they certainly are annoyed by the increasing popularity of ACCA in pakistan. people are well informed these days. they do the maths before selecting any one of them. and what do u think, ACCA is teaching wrong accounting practices to its students? what kind of course is CA teaching its students that only a very few number of ppl pass it? is it some out of the world magical accounting or what? certainly, they are forcefully failing ppl to maintain demand in the market. passing percentage may be 50% but they certainly dont pass everyone who deserves to be passed.

well frankly, i ve never heard anyone say CA is not gud or says it sucks just bcuz they cud nt pass it. even i had plans for CA when i got into this field but soon i realized that my efforts wud pay off better if i put them on other, internationally accepted certifications like CFA, CMA, CIMA etc etc.

i know its not that difficult. i havent actually seen the course to be honest but im almost through with my acca n i know just how hard can it be (not too much) but thats the point, CA aint hard, still most ppl fail at it.

most of the ppl get into ACCA too after failing to get admission in a university etc but a larger percentage of this actually gets through with acca then it does in CA. why? fair evaluations system is why!

[BackToCivicFaiez]

well im not update with the situation of UK regarding ICAP students but hey, we all know ICAEW and ICAP have mutual recognition that works for Pakistan, im sure they have similar situation in UK too so no, they DONT have monopoly there.

CA may be cheaper but which do u think is cheaper when u get a Bsc honz and an MBA degree from england with ACCA.? and now even HEC is awarding M.com degree to ACCAs. do the cost benefit analysis urself!

ICAP may be a govt organization n its purpose may not to make profit but they certainly are annoyed by the increasing popularity of ACCA in pakistan. people are well informed these days. they do the maths before selecting any one of them. and what do u think, ACCA is teaching wrong accounting practices to its students? what kind of course is CA teaching its students that only a very few number of ppl pass it? is it some out of the world magical accounting or what? certainly, they are forcefully failing ppl to maintain demand in the market. passing percentage may be 50% but they certainly dont pass everyone who deserves to be passed.

well frankly, i ve never heard anyone say CA is not gud or says it sucks just bcuz they cud nt pass it. even i had plans for CA when i got into this field but soon i realized that my efforts wud pay off better if i put them on other, internationally accepted certifications like CFA, CMA, CIMA etc etc.

i know its not that difficult. i havent actually seen the course to be honest but im almost through with my acca n i know just how hard can it be (not too much) but thats the point, CA aint hard, still most ppl fail at it.

most of the ppl get into ACCA too after failing to get admission in a university etc but a larger percentage of this actually gets through with acca then it does in CA. why? fair evaluations system is why!

then most people are nalaiq pandas...its because entry requirements are so low...If you increase passing marks for all papers, you'll see an increase in final (E/F module) pass rate. What is happening is that majority pandas complete A-D in a dozen attempts and then get stuck at E and F when they are required to do a little bit of math themselves (unlike all the papers before). And then they keep failing again and again in E and F which lowers the pass rate.

Also, if you have an accounting degree, any other mba, bba, bcom, mcom etc is pointless. Its just paper.

[ahmadbila]

Dude, i am just sorry to see how ignorant you have been... you have no idea what learning in an industry and in an audit firm is. i am just laughing out loud at your words that you will learn properly in industry...hope you learn so

and for the other part, 6000 is the stipend not salary. where in the part of the word a person is paid more than this stipened.

Do u think any industry is going to accept you as a fresh candidate. Passing papers and performing practically are two different worlds.

I can only wish you best of luck with your determinations but you need to think out of this little circle where all your thinkings revolve.

Thankyou

ha ha... glad i made u laugh. one more mr.know-it-all who thinks everyone else is stupid!
i do know EXACTLY what learning in firms n in industry is, how its different. u dont have to be a CEO or an audit partner to know that.

okay, u say its stipend. right. why do fresh graduates get three times of that? u know house-job, for medical students? its also a 1yr 'learning' period but students get paid 24000rs (last time i checked) for it. n its probably more then 30k in isb.
companies hire fresh engineers, those with no experience at all, at 18-30k per month. why dont THEY get 6k rs for 3 yrs?
to hell with all this, even acca affiliates, fresh ones, get 100k-150k in arab countries and other western countries. what is the reason that only WE, in pakistan, get 6000rs? ICAP!!! their monopoly, their rules. firm take advantage of them n hire freshers like cheap labor, nothing else...

[ahmadbila]

I agree with you. CA had never been a primary option for all those students who after failing blame ICAP. when these guys dont get admission into engineering or medical or other field, just just join ICAP because this field has the most easiest entry requirements. i have never met a single guy whose primary interest was CA and he has failed.

thats right. most get into to CA n ACCA for that very reason but they dont make it very far. i dont know for CA but the first 3-4 papers of acca are the maximum these ppl clear n after that they are stuck n most of them leave.

[BackToCivicFaiez]

ha ha... glad i made u laugh. one more mr.know-it-all who thinks everyone else is stupid!
i do know EXACTLY what learning in firms n in industry is, how its different. u dont have to be a CEO or an audit partner to know that.

okay, u say its stipend. right. why do fresh graduates get three times of that? u know house-job, for medical students? its also a 1yr 'learning' period but students get paid 24000rs (last time i checked) for it. n its probably more then 30k in isb.
companies hire fresh engineers, those with no experience at all, at 18-30k per month. why dont THEY get 6k rs for 3 yrs?
to hell with all this, even acca affiliates, fresh ones, get 100k-150k in arab countries and other western countries. what is the reason that only WE, in pakistan, get 6000rs? ICAP!!! their monopoly, their rules. firm take advantage of them n hire freshers like cheap labor, nothing else...

fresh graduates get paid more, cuz they have a graduation degree, they have mastered their field.
A CA internee ( or guy who does article ship ) is TRAINING, he is not a graduate, he is still mastering his field.

Same is with med students as well, they get paid AFTER graduating.

Also, do note they practice in hospitals with doctors during their course, they don't get paid anything for that.

So CA internee is still getting paid more( he's getting paid ATLEAST SOMETHING ). Person with A-D modules cleared is not a graduate or fresh graduate, the article ship is A PART of the education.

[BackToCivicFaiez]

thats right. most get into to CA n ACCA for that very reason but they dont make it very far. i dont know for CA but the first 3-4 papers of acca are the maximum these ppl clear n after that they are stuck n most of them leave.

that would have been true if there weren't max 6 attempts for each module. They use all 6 attempts and lower the pass rate. I think you are one of them, why else would you cry about a low pass rate?

[ahmadbila]

that would have been true if there weren't max 6 attempts for each module. They use all 6 attempts and lower the pass rate. I think you are one of them, why else would you cry about a low pass rate?

lol... stop telling me who i am. i left bahria university after 2nd semester to get into this field. im not among the ones who dont get admission anywhere else. n frankly i dont give a damn what ICAP does. im not in it, i never wanted to be in it n im happy im part of acca rather then icap. so, stop making stupid assumptions...

[ahmadbila]

then most people are nalaiq pandas...its because entry requirements are so low...If you increase passing marks for all papers, you'll see an increase in final (E/F module) pass rate. What is happening is that majority pandas complete A-D in a dozen attempts and then get stuck at E and F when they are required to do a little bit of math themselves (unlike all the papers before). And then they keep failing again and again in E and F which lowers the pass rate.

Also, if you have an accounting degree, any other mba, bba, bcom, mcom etc is pointless. Its just paper.

what u are saying is that pass percentage is lower only bcuz sum ppl keep failing. that wud mean that a lot of ppl also get through. well, where do they go? there arent as much CAs in the market as their are ACCAs. where are all these ppl going? certainly, the reason u stated is not the only reason for low pass rates. as such ppl are in ACCA too n as i said, they dont last long in there. so the higher up paper's pass percentages are really a representation of those who are willing to work hard n pass.

entry requirements may be low but still, there ARE a LOT of ppl who join CA, ACCA by will. i can say that bcuz most of my class mates fall in that category. a friend of mine is in acca AFTER completing BBA from M. Ali jinnah university. so u cant say that most of the candidates are in the "didnt get admission elsewhere" category...

as for bba mba being just a piece of paper. well yes, may be. but this piece of paper can get u recognized in ur country or even abroad, it can open doors for u, it can add weight to ur cv so its not a useless piece of paper, its a useful one...

[ahmadbila]

fresh graduates get paid more, cuz they have a graduation degree, they have mastered their field.
A CA internee ( or guy who does article ship ) is TRAINING, he is not a graduate, he is still mastering his field.

Same is with med students as well, they get paid AFTER graduating.

Also, do note they practice in hospitals with doctors during their course, they don't get paid anything for that.

So CA internee is still getting paid more( he's getting paid ATLEAST SOMETHING ). Person with A-D modules cleared is not a graduate or fresh graduate, the article ship is A PART of the education.

well atleast CA internees get paid a reasonable. atleast more then what most drivers, laborers, pions etc get. why so? bcuz they have protection from ICAP.

n hey, BBA Bcom etc guys havent quite MASTERED their field. they study dozens of different subjects, yes, their knowledge is wider but not deeper. acca or ca is a relatively more specific. its all about accounting from day 1 to the last day. they shud get paid atleast a reasonable amount. CAs do, accas dont. why discriminate?

[misteek]

oh come'on, you are comparing stipend of a 2 years CA inter or 2.5 years ACCA with a 5 years medical student, lolz

and dude, no western or european or Middle east company pays 150,000 to a fresh ACCA .... stop looking dreams. if one out of 100 gets it, thats doesnot make it a standard. We have UK and US returns in audit firm who have worked 3 or 4 years there.

[BackToCivicFaiez]

what u are saying is that pass percentage is lower only bcuz sum ppl keep failing. that wud mean that a lot of ppl also get through. well, where do they go? there arent as much CAs in the market as their are ACCAs. where are all these ppl going? certainly, the reason u stated is not the only reason for low pass rates. as such ppl are in ACCA too n as i said, they dont last long in there. so the higher up paper's pass percentages are really a representation of those who are willing to work hard n pass.

entry requirements may be low but still, there ARE a LOT of ppl who join CA, ACCA by will. i can say that bcuz most of my class mates fall in that category. a friend of mine is in acca AFTER completing BBA from M. Ali jinnah university. so u cant say that most of the candidates are in the "didnt get admission elsewhere" category...

as for bba mba being just a piece of paper. well yes, may be. but this piece of paper can get u recognized in ur country or even abroad, it can open doors for u, it can add weight to ur cv so its not a useless piece of paper, its a useful one...

I don't understand what you are trying to say...

several thousand people enroll for CA every year, and a few hundred graduate.

and "where are all these ppl going?", they are out there. Just because they don't come to your house with mathayi, doesn't mean they are not out there...

as far as "will" is concerned, I have the will to launch a satellite into orbit by next week. Can I launch a satellite into orbit by next week? off course not. I need to work hard to do it. And even still there is a chance I will fail...

[awais.9]

I don't understand what you are trying to say...

several thousand people enroll for CA every year, and a few hundred graduate.

and "where are all these ppl going?", they are out there. Just because they don't come to your house with mathayi, doesn't mean they are not out there...

as far as "will" is concerned, I have the will to launch a satellite into orbit by next week. Can I launch a satellite into orbit by next week? off course not. I need to work hard to do it. And even still there is a chance I will fail...

i doubt that
number of CA's who passed all modules cant be in hundreds every year
infact last time when some1 told me total no of CA's were not even 10k in PAK,dont know about now

[ahmadbila]

oh come'on, you are comparing stipend of a 2 years CA inter or 2.5 years ACCA with a 5 years medical student, lolz

and dude, no western or european or Middle east company pays 150,000 to a fresh ACCA .... stop looking dreams. if one out of 100 gets it, thats doesnot make it a standard. We have UK and US returns in audit firm who have worked 3 or 4 years there.

lol... i know several ppl working abroad who got that much as starting salary. a friend was hired in dubai by some company last november, hes not even an affiliate yet n hes getting 4000AED plus accomodation. another one has completed acca n is working for 7000SAR per month in saudi arabia. n i ve seen several job listing for freshers offering 1lakh+ pkr salary in arab world.

n in western region, 1lakh rs is hard 1000 dollars which is not much money at all for a month. ppl who DO find relevant jobs DO get paid atleast that much or more. n that may not be too much money but atleast u can survive decently. what living standard can u maintain for 6000rs a month?
n its not about how long the course is, its about how comprehensive it is. accountants need only 2-3 years to get gud understanding of the field while doctors need atleast 5 bcuz of the vast knowledge. dude, even a b.com holder can get 10-15k easily. its not like salary is directly proportional to the number of yrs spent studying. lol ... wat a silly argument!

[ahmadbila]

I don't understand what you are trying to say...

several thousand people enroll for CA every year, and a few hundred graduate.

and "where are all these ppl going?", they are out there. Just because they don't come to your house with mathayi, doesn't mean they are not out there...

as far as "will" is concerned, I have the will to launch a satellite into orbit by next week. Can I launch a satellite into orbit by next week? off course not. I need to work hard to do it. And even still there is a chance I will fail...

several thousand may get enrolled every year but i highly doubt that several hundred make it out of the other end. i dont have the official stats but i think hardly a few dozen get through in every attempt.

so no, NOT many are out there. atleast not as much as accas. n theres a reason for that.
n for ur will to launch ur own satellite, well, keep trying, my be u ll get that in a decade or few...

[BackToCivicFaiez]

i doubt that
number of CA's who passed all modules cant be in hundreds every year
infact last time when some1 told me total no of CA's were not even 10k in PAK,dont know about now

okay around one hundred or so.

the total number is around 5-6k (somewhere in the middle)

If they wanted to artificially create a shortage of CAs (which is quite pointless btw), they could just raise entry requirements.

several thousand may get enrolled every year but i highly doubt that several hundred make it out of the other end. i dont have the official stats but i think hardly a few dozen get through in every attempt.

so no, NOT many are out there. atleast not as much as accas. n theres a reason for that.
n for ur will to launch ur own satellite, well, keep trying, my be u ll get that in a decade or few...

what reason?

[awais.9]

okay around one hundred or so.

the total number is around 5-6k (somewhere in the middle)

If they wanted to artificially create a shortage of CAs (which is quite pointless btw), they could just raise entry requirements.

what reason?

y would they kick off easy revenue that they are earning from all those thousands of students joining because of easy requirements