After Engine Overhauling

[Horse_rider]

Thank you all by giving such a fantastic and informative replies.
@sherwan_88

my engine oil light worked just for 2 days after overhaul and now it is not lighting at all not even at ignition switch ON, the electrician checked the light and says that the light and its fuse is okay, but the pressure gauge has gone and you have to replace it, he told me that no need to worry about the pressure and level of oil as it should be okay. brother you informed about oil pump so i will check its functionality as well because i did't check it.

@afarooqi

brother i like this info, and i will definitely clean the silencer.

@mazamwarraich

brother i think you are right that my mechanic is not so good about the engine piston ring changing or he is not honest, because he told me that the valve and its seals are quite good , but i think that he was not so good, and he just want me to come back with same problem but i am confused because it is so early to say something about him at this stage, because currently i am following his directions and orders till 1000 km, so i am waiting for 1000 km then i will send laanat on him hahaha loll. he thinks ALL IS WeLL. after 1000 km i will be free to saying something more wrong about him when he become fails.

[malikvicky]

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Hi...SaLaM<o:p></o:p>
HrU 2 ALL...ITz Me VicKY maLIK(WaQaS) FrOM <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">KaRaChI</st1:City></st1:place>....BasIcaLLY EM DoinG (AerONauTicaL EnGineeRinG)<o:p></o:p>
If Ur CAR GiViNG ANY KIND Of trOUBLE Or ANY StRaNGe PrOBLeM OccURe IN Ur Car...So U CaN <o:p></o:p>
coNTaCT wID Me wIDOUt ANY HesITaTION...<o:p></o:p>
I CaN woRK ON ALL Makes N MoDELz<o:p></o:p>
I ALsO wORk ON swaP EnGINez...<o:p></o:p>
Manufacturez:FreNCh,GerMaN,EnGLIsH,JapaNesE,kOreaN Carz,JEEPz,TrUCks ETc Etc<o:p></o:p>
....<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Ur</st1:place></st1:City> CaR GiViNG AnY SusPeNsION PrOB...Or MecHanICaL PRoB,ELeCtrICaL ProB...<o:p></o:p>
VIcKY MaLIK HERe FoR UR HeLP...i CaN sOLVe Ur Car PrOB ManuALLY Or BY (DTC SYSTeM OR ScaNNER)<o:p></o:p>
I Have THRee BIG GaraGeS(wORKSHOPs) IN Karachi,<o:p></o:p>
GuLSHan-E-IQBAL,9.0 N DeFENce...<o:p></o:p>
Facalites:German toolz,All kindz of toolz n spannerz r Using in Older n new carz...ELectric welding Plant,Steam wash Or Kerosine <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wash</st1:place></st1:State>,Etc Etc LOTz OF OTHEr ThINGs<o:p></o:p>
Dealership:Pak suzuki,<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Toyota</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p>
Contact:<o:p></o:p>
0345-2589095<o:p></o:p>
E-mail:<o:p></o:p>
malikwaqas69@hotmail.com<o:p></o:p>

[malikvicky]

This is not called an overhaul. You just got the rings replaced - no more, no less. In an overhaul the entire engine is disassembled and each and every worn-out part is replaced, the cylinder lining is honed again and entire cylinder head is also properly machined, valve seats are re-made to perfection etc.

The semi-overhaul that you have got done usually fails (because cylinder lining is not smooth and also because valves are leaking oil). This is only done in case you have worn out your rings very quick e.g. in 60k km. It is assumed in this case that other parts e.g. oil pump etc. have much life remaining and the only purpose is to reduce oil consumption. Take note that in fitness test nobody cares about the condition of your engine (I mean compression etc.) but every fitness test is designed to check for emissions. So if there is lots of soot in your exhaust your car will not pass the fitness test. In places like here where fitness standards are not properly enforced, you would still like to reduce the oil consumption because it is very expensive. I once had a car which required 1 litre of oil per 300 km. I had a running of 3500km per month and needed three 4 litre bottles every month (that means Rs. 3600). So the rings were changed and the consumption came down to 1 litre per 6000km. This was a big (20 times) improvement. The remaining 1 litre consumption was due to leakage from valve jackets. I think this is your problem.

You will soon need a full rebuild (you should have gone for it in the first place). Nowadays are tough times and full rebuilds are not the norm, plus people are also running their cars less because fuel is so unaffordable, so if you run only 20k km this year you'll be able to complete 12 months on this engine. My advice: Go for a total rebuild but not now, only when you start losing so much compression you have acceleration like a hand-cart.

As for your mineral oil question, always break-in using a mineral oil. Then switch to synthetic after 10k km (which would be your third oil change after 1k and 5k). Even for cars which have synthetic recommended as standard you have to use special break-in oils which have less friction modifiers.

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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p>
Hi...SaLaM<o:p></o:p>
HrU 2 ALL...ITz Me VicKY maLIK(WaQaS) FrOM <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">KaRaChI</st1:City></st1:place>....BasIcaLLY EM DoinG (AerONauTicaL EnGineeRinG)<o:p></o:p>
If Ur CAR GiViNG ANY KIND Of trOUBLE Or ANY StRaNGe PrOBLeM OccURe IN Ur Car...So U CaN <o:p></o:p>
coNTaCT wID Me wIDOUt ANY HesITaTION...<o:p></o:p>
I CaN woRK ON ALL Makes N MoDELz<o:p></o:p>
I ALsO wORk ON swaP EnGINez...<o:p></o:p>
Manufacturez:FreNCh,GerMaN,EnGLIsH,JapaNesE,kOreaN Carz,JEEPz,TrUCks ETc Etc<o:p></o:p>
....<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Ur</st1:place></st1:City> CaR GiViNG AnY SusPeNsION PrOB...Or MecHanICaL PRoB,ELeCtrICaL ProB...<o:p></o:p>
VIcKY MaLIK HERe FoR UR HeLP...i CaN sOLVe Ur Car PrOB ManuALLY Or BY (DTC SYSTeM OR ScaNNER)<o:p></o:p>
I Have THRee BIG GaraGeS(wORKSHOPs) IN Karachi,<o:p></o:p>
GuLSHan-E-IQBAL,9.0 N DeFENce...<o:p></o:p>
Facalites:German toolz,All kindz of toolz n spannerz r Using in Older n new carz...ELectric welding Plant,Steam wash Or Kerosine <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wash</st1:place></st1:State>,Etc Etc LOTz OF OTHEr ThINGs<o:p></o:p>
Dealership:Pak suzuki,<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Toyota</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p>
Contact:<o:p></o:p>
0345-2589095<o:p></o:p>
E-mail:<o:p></o:p>
malikwaqas69@hotmail.com<o:p></o:p>

[Horse_rider]

my problem is solved by just changing the valve seals and done some cleaning and adjusting of the valve seats. Thank You everyone by giving me valuable information.
now no smoke and no oil consumption, as the engine is efi with CNG so dramatically less emissions and smoke, now very clean exhaust. thank you all again.

i have changed the valve seal of COROTEC NOK so do you think these seals are good or not?

cost for seals changing

Labor= 1200
valve seals= 390
head gasket= 450
kerosene oil= 90

total = 2130 Rs.

i posting pictures of old worn seals which are open enough causing the oil to seep/leak into combustion chamber.

now please tell me that NOK valve seal for Rs.390 is good or not? will they going to be replaced in some less time or it will last longer?

[afarooqi]

i guess ur mechanic bugged u again, as he might have used oil valve seals at time of rebuilding engine, and charged u again for labor. the cost of pain u had is hard to calculate. but good to hear that your porblem solved.

[Vaqas1]

Hmm, I dont know what kind of parts ur mechanic used but there is a kit available for all cars with all seals and jans and gaskits.

If you buy that kit, i did my ee90 rings on sunday the kit was available as chinese for 1100, Japanese for 2700Rs and Genuine for 4100 Rs.

That kit will have each and every seal that u need in engine. Starting from chamber seal, Main seal timing side seals, Oil Pump seals, Water body seals, main head gaskit , these valve seals and all.

So when ever u rebuild engine just buy that and you dont need to purchase any more seals or gaskits.

[ZEESHAN84]

dear all,
can any one tell me how to check engine performance..
means engine kesa hai
excellent hai?
good hai ya?
average hai?
how to check its condition.?

[yamaha135]

Ahsanzs did u hear term over sized rings? what are your views about that?

I am hearing a lot of people on standard bore going for over size .25 rings so that helps too.

Oversized rings are much heard of but in general are not as reliable or durable considering the extra load they have to incur due to increased piston to cylinder clearances and are only used if the liner is on the last oversize piston. They indeed last but just not as much as a standard piston+ring setup does. and even with oversized rings one atleast needs to give the cylinder liners a hone to get rid of any imperfections or ridges. Last but not the least the poster has not mentioned anywhere of oversized rings being used.

To the poster, there are only 2 ways a engine can smoke and cause oil reduction. Ring end gap is out of spec or cylinder head valve seals are blown. Identifying which is the problem with your engine is pretty easy to do too, but since you have already gone with replacements of the rings, It most probably could be the valve seals. and to Identify Valve seals to be the problem you should let the car sit overnight and in the morning upon startup check the smoke and its quantity, if the smoke is alot in the beginning and decreases after 3-4 minutes of throttling you could be certain the valve seals are your problem. But if the engine blows smoke constantly and with no reduction in quantity it most likely means the rings + pistons are shot.

If however the valve seals do end up being your problem, then it is quiet likely your previous ring+gasket job was wasted since it wasn't ever the problem to begin with. All you needed were some fresh new valve seals and thats pretty much it.

[yamaha135]

my problem is solved by just changing the valve seals and done some cleaning and adjusting of the valve seats. Thank You everyone by giving me valuable information.
now no smoke and no oil consumption, as the engine is efi with CNG so dramatically less emissions and smoke, now very clean exhaust. thank you all again.

i have changed the valve seal of COROTEC NOK so do you think these seals are good or not?

cost for seals changing

Labor= 1200
valve seals= 390
head gasket= 450
kerosene oil= 90

total = 2130 Rs.

i posting pictures of old worn seals which are open enough causing the oil to seep/leak into combustion chamber.

now please tell me that NOK valve seal for Rs.390 is good or not? will they going to be replaced in some less time or it will last longer?

I just noticed this post now and I'm glad you are sorted. But you need to also know that your previous Ring+Gasket and the labor involved along with your precious time and hard earned money was wasted since that wasn't ever your problem. A well experienced mechanic knows better if its the Valve seals or the Piston Rigs beforehand (both can rarely ever be the problem together) and since he did not try to diagnose the problem before diving in the engine I would personally recommend you to choose another mechanic for any of your future engine jobs as the current one is clearly incompetent and inexperienced.

Good Luck and Drive Safe.

[Horse_rider]

@Yamaha135

Yes brother you are absulutely right, my problem was just valve seals and my mechanic have known the problem at that time but he does not actually inform me and want me to come back to him again for some more work so that he could earn money. my problem was purely the valve seals related and not relating to rings. but he installed oversized rings now my question is; what if the rings dont need to be replaced then how he could change the rings how it could be possible for him to install oversized ring in a small standard size gap??

[yamaha135]

@Yamaha135

Yes brother you are absulutely right, my problem was just valve seals and my mechanic have known the problem at that time but he does not actually inform me and want me to come back to him again for some more work so that he could earn money. my problem was purely the valve seals related and not relating to rings. but he installed oversized rings now my question is; what if the rings dont need to be replaced then how he could change the rings how it could be possible for him to install oversized ring in a small standard size gap??

1st and foremost how do you know if he used oversize rings or standard rings, did you buy the oversize rings yourself or he bought them and installed them? if he bought and installed them then could be he did not buy any rings and just reinstalled back the original rings that were already installed.

Oversized rings can only be installed on a standard bore if the bore is slightly worn but if the bore is not worn one can install them by filing the ring end gaps (not too hard to do) whatever the case, consider going to a better and reputable mechanic next time you need engine or vehicle work done. whats done is done now and in the end you will indeed gain out of this whole experience (despite some financial loss now) as Allah S.W.T is watching.

Edit: To answer another of your questions, NOK seals (although chinese) should last a while easily therefore not much to worry, however do keep an eye on the engine oil level.

[Horse_rider]

@Yamaha135

Thank you brother for your replies.

Indeed i have bought the oversized 0.25 rings myself and he changed in front of me, also he took the rings and other stuffs to the machinist for some grinding or adjustments. i think he did grind the rings and made them again standard sized, is it possible or not to grind the oversized rings back to its standard size? another point to be noted is that he also installed something named HELPER with the rings actually dont know about these helpers, when i were there at the auto parts shop during ring purchasing the shopkeeper told me that there is no need to install the HELPER and told that these rings dont require any HELPER. so can you inform about HELPER and the GRINDING of rings??

my problem is solved but the purpose of posting more replies is to get informed other members.

[yamaha135]

@Yamaha135

Thank you brother for your replies.

Indeed i have bought the oversized 0.25 rings myself and he changed in front of me, also he took the rings and other stuffs to the machinist for some grinding or adjustments. i think he did grind the rings and made them again standard sized, is it possible or not to grind the oversized rings back to its standard size? another point to be noted is that he also installed something named HELPER with the rings actually dont know about these helpers, when i were there at the auto parts shop during ring purchasing the shopkeeper told me that there is no need to install the HELPER and told that these rings dont require any HELPER. so can you inform about HELPER and the GRINDING of rings??

my problem is solved but the purpose of posting more replies is to get informed other members.

Yes, the rings ends can be filed to achieve standard bore clearances which is apparently what he did. However, the Helpers were not needed nor are ever recommended, they end up stressing the engine unnecessarily. Helpers are used on out of spec or worn pistons, something that was not needed in your case since blow by was never your real problem. But since those are installed now I would suggest you to take it easy on the engine for at least a good 2000kms as that mileage will help the rings to seat with the helpers on.

[Horse_rider]

i have completed 1500 Kms so far, since the rings changed. i baby the car till 1000Km then after changing the valve seals i visit to Swat from Islamabad last sunday so i have covered round about 550 Km trip to Swat. i am using mineral oil for initial piston ring break-in (RUNNING PERIOD) so now after 1500 Km i want to change the oil tomorrow with the Semi-synthetic because 1000 Km Baby running and 500 Km aggressive running is i think sufficient for Rings to properly break-in. What you suggest?? is it enough or i should wait for some hundred Kms more to switch to synthetic??

[dr3vil]

Horse_rider
one advise man
CHANGE UR MECHANIC i went to a money hungry noob as well at the end i hated my car but one thing man
ur car is always ok ur mechanic is not

[yamaha135]

i have completed 1500 Kms so far, since the rings changed. i baby the car till 1000Km then after changing the valve seals i visit to Swat from Islamabad last sunday so i have covered round about 550 Km trip to Swat. i am using mineral oil for initial piston ring break-in (RUNNING PERIOD) so now after 1500 Km i want to change the oil tomorrow with the Semi-synthetic because 1000 Km Baby running and 500 Km aggressive running is i think sufficient for Rings to properly break-in. What you suggest?? is it enough or i should wait for some hundred Kms more to switch to synthetic??

1,500 Km should be enough but just to be further on the safe side, let it break in till 2,000. however, you can change the oil to synthetic or semi synthetic now. Does not mean you need to change the oil once the running is complete at 2,000. let the synthetic run for as long as you like. Oil is recommended to be changed within the 1st few hundred Km's after a rebuild only because the new parts go through a wear and tear phase to seat in together, the process at times needs to dispatch tiny particles of aluminum, babbitt, copper, which in turn needs to be flushed out of the engine as it can in most cases block the oil pump or go through it and damage parts. Your engine, however, is out of that phase therefore you can switch to synthetic without any issues.

[Horse_rider]

i fill the sump with synthetic oil immediately after rings job done, then change the oil and filter at 300 KMs with mineral oil, did not switch again to synthetic yet, now i will Inshallah switch to synthetic after 2000-300=1700 Kms approx. as per your suggestion. by the way i planned to change today but now postponed till 2000 KMs.

Thank You all. and keep the thread alive as more people will get help like me.

[Skill]

@Yamaha135

Thank you brother for your replies.

Indeed i have bought the oversized 0.25 rings myself and he changed in front of me, also he took the rings and other stuffs to the machinist for some grinding or adjustments. i think he did grind the rings and made them again standard sized, is it possible or not to grind the oversized rings back to its standard size? another point to be noted is that he also installed something named HELPER with the rings actually dont know about these helpers, when i were there at the auto parts shop during ring purchasing the shopkeeper told me that there is no need to install the HELPER and told that these rings dont require any HELPER. so can you inform about HELPER and the GRINDING of rings??

my problem is solved but the purpose of posting more replies is to get informed other members.

helper rings make combinely 1 oil ring in some models often genuine factory fitting.
There r other rings made by same ring manufacturers which r easier 2 fit by our mechanics which dont dont need helper rings.

[Skill]

my problem is solved by just changing the valve seals and done some cleaning and adjusting of the valve seats. Thank You everyone by giving me valuable information.
now no smoke and no oil consumption, as the engine is efi with CNG so dramatically less emissions and smoke, now very clean exhaust. thank you all again.

i have changed the valve seal of COROTEC NOK so do you think these seals are good or not?

cost for seals changing

Labor= 1200
valve seals= 390
head gasket= 450
kerosene oil= 90

total = 2130 Rs.

i posting pictures of old worn seals which are open enough causing the oil to seep/leak into combustion chamber.

now please tell me that NOK valve seal for Rs.390 is good or not? will they going to be replaced in some less time or it will last longer?

there is a joint venture by Cortico italy n Nok japan which produce rubber relating sealings of automotives.Rs 390 4 origional valve seal kit is doubtful in my concern.

[Vaqas1]

Its not ur mechanic thats how almost all mechanic change rings. They just put new rings and dont touch anything else.

How my mechanic do it. He takes out the engine, Cleans it, Changes Valves, Rings, All seals and all sort of other things. so this change lasts.