Black smoke while starting

[cursedd]

avoiding SHona:D
@xulfiqar: plz answer my queries(Related to EFi and carburetors)
1) I have heard that in Efi engines part of the fuel pump(might be wrong) should always be dipped in the fuel so as to startup the engines contrary to carburetors engines a little fuel is worthy to startup the engine !!
2) u said that 2006 civic, which in Pakistan was the first year of fuel injection Hondas then what it had before that?
(thou if itx childish queries plz answer :/)

[shqamar]

its hard to challenge or doubt xulfiqar info when it comes to automobiles .

[onlyfaith]

its hard to challenge or doubt xulfiqar info when it comes to automobiles .

agreed

[Xulfiqar]

avoiding SHona:D
@xulfiqar: plz answer my queries(Related to EFi and carburetors)
1) I have heard that in Efi engines part of the fuel pump(might be wrong) should always be dipped in the fuel so as to startup the engines contrary to carburetors engines a little fuel is worthy to startup the engine !!
2) u said that 2006 civic, which in Pakistan was the first year of fuel injection Hondas then what it had before that?
(thou if itx childish queries plz answer :/)

The fuel tank in EFI cars is a little different, it has a little bucket in itself where the pump is housed, its to ensure that the pumps impeller is always dipped in fuel and is able to supply it to the engine at about 40 psi.

previous to 1996 Atlas Honda produced civics with carburettor engines.

[imranbhatti]

The sixth Generation Civic launched by Atlas Honda in 1996 at Pakistani market was with EFi engine both EXi & VTi version.

[whiteangel]

one of your injectors is leaking very slowly, causing a flooding situation on startup, because on startup the injectors fire in a batch to dump fuel.

The very best method is to run install a fuel pressure gauge and run engine, then shut down and inspect for loss of pressure. Now remove rail with injectors installed and manually energize the fuel pump to purge the fuel rail again and inspect the injectors for leaks. You'll find it. Replace as necessary.

I don't think my mechanic would have a fuel pressure gauge. If its a leaky injector, then I could remove the the fuel rail with the injectors installed, turn the ignition switch to on so that the fuel pump pressurizes the fuel line and then visually inspect the injectors for signs of dripping.

Would that be sufficient to identify a leaky injector?

[sohna]

what is this then. On planet earth its called a fuel injector and if you wish to disagree that an EFI engine does not have them then please stop hitting the crack pipe.

NOW to the question. You are telling me that in every otto cycle 4 stroke petrol engine fuel and air mix in the inlet manifold and get pulled into the combustion chamber on inlet stroke - YES

HOW do you think fuel is added to the air when you have a PCM, ECM, ECU, MCU (whatever name you think is appropriate) according to the finishing sentence of your long but strange paragraph.

Its added from this injector its actually a pintle solenoid with pressurised fuel on its back which is supplied with positive current on side and grounded in little pulses from the PCM, ECM, ECU, MCU (take your pick again) depending on the engine load which is detected by a number of inputs of the very basic are MAP signal for speed density based system or MAF for air measurement systems.

The injector is the point where fuel is introduced into the inlet manifold.

For your second question of diesel operating principle. Diesel fuel oil is pressurized via a hydraulic pump and fed via injector nozzles directly into the combustion chamber uner very high pressure at the power stroke.

NOW - if you have an indirect injection engine the fuel is injected into a precombustion chamber from where the fireball expands and forces the piston downwards, if its a direct injected engine, the fuel is injected into a bowl depressed into the piston itself, the manifold is a true dry manifold with no control of air inlet, and engine output and revs solely controlled by metering the amount of fuel being injected into the engine

Please - go read something on how an otto cycle engine works with a generic controlled electronic fuel injection control system. While there also look up K-Jetronic mechanical fuel injection (like you see on older mercedes engines)

Its one thing to ask for correction if you dont know, but to blatantly spew out complete nonsense is another.

U have proved ur self again wrong..............
I am telling u that petrol engine and EFI petrol engine don't have fuel injector ok
I am not saying that they don't have fuel injection system ( Clear )
First u need to clear one thing.......ok
There is a big difference between fuel injector and fuel injection system .....u r mismatching both theories.........ok
In petrol engine fuel is mixing with air in carburetor through fuel injectin system................ok
In diesel engine fuel is spraying straight in cyender through fYEL INJECTOR............ok
Now i come back to petrol engine how u think that fuel is mixing with air through injectoer ..........wrong man totally wrong....
Fuel is delevering in carburater through fuel injection system through ECM........may b u still confuse with ECM........ so u need to clear ur concep regarding ECM and EFI

[sohna]

And how do you adjust fuel in an EFI Car? Can you please explain ?

U need to connect Electronically device( according to car manufacture) with ur cars ECM and will give it new configuration.

[sohna]

Wah hum 4 saal sey yaha jhag mar raha hai ka we dont even know about these simple things?

Bhai go throw pakwheels you will know people here know a lot more than what you think we know.

I am agree with u but request u guz to make strong ur concept regarding EFI
and never think that u r old on pw and have more knowledge.
may b abi tk jak hi mar rahe hu

[sohna]

its hard to challenge or doubt xulfiqar info when it comes to automobiles .

Simply he can b wrong ....u can b ...i can be ,,,,,,,just we need to talk humbly and make our concept wright very simple yar

[whiteangel]

FYI petrol engines donot have injector...............

Sohna,

I am posting a pic of my car's engine. You can see the fuel injectors clearly. I hope this solves your problem. Now can we please move on and focus on the problem being discussed in the thread.

Thanks

[Xulfiqar]

U have proved ur self again wrong..............
I am telling u that petrol engine and EFI petrol engine don't have fuel injector ok
I am not saying that they don't have fuel injection system ( Clear )
First u need to clear one thing.......ok
There is a big difference between fuel injector and fuel injection system .....u r mismatching both theories.........ok
In petrol engine fuel is mixing with air in carburetor through fuel injectin system................ok
In diesel engine fuel is spraying straight in cyender through fYEL INJECTOR............ok
Now i come back to petrol engine how u think that fuel is mixing with air through injectoer ..........wrong man totally wrong....
Fuel is delevering in carburater through fuel injection system through ECM........may b u still confuse with ECM........ so u need to clear ur concep regarding ECM and EFI

uff - grrrrr

HOW blind can your brain be, you are saying that fuel injectors spray into a carburettor now.. PLEASE MAKE SOME SENSE OUT OF THIS.. That means the picture shown by whiteangel is the injectors are spraying into a 4 tube whack job carburettor instead of the inlet manifold immediately at the inlet ports of the cylinder head.

NOW READ the below,

Air is admitted into a multipoint EFI controlled engine by a throttle body and fuel is added to this air at the inlet ports of the cylinder head via injectors spraying a petrol mist, this air/fuel load is then sucked into the engine by the opening of the intake valve and downward motion of the piston.

In a Throttle body injection system (Daewoo Racer) you see one injector sitting on a housing that looks like a carburettor, fuel is sprayed on top of the throttle plate and the opening of the throttle allows this fuel/air mixture to be sucked in by the action of negative pressure of the inlet valves opening.

In a carburettor, the fuel is mechanically metered by vacuum load signals within the carburettor throats due to the action of the throttle plate(s) underneath it.

As I explained earlier about the diesel operating principle read that again.

I beleive you also have a problem in understanding plain english text, nowhere did I mention that fuel and air are injected through the injector, fuel is mixed with air that was sucked via the throttle body as a mist by the injector housed near the inlet ports - the air is metered by the throttle blade(s).. Now dont get into the debate of how which sensor puts in what information to the ECM, PCM, MCU, ECU - for it to adjust injector firing sequence and interval and also control ignition timing. - The owner of this thread will be super p155ed

Either you have never ever seen an EFI engine and its workings or are just trying to mickey around over here. It pays to learn something true not barging in with false information (just like our lovely govt/politicians do)

It would make more sense to open up another thread with your questions rather than destroy someones thread.

btw - Im enjoying playing along, how about you go study the mistubishi GDI engines, Its a petrol engine with fuel injectors spraying directly into the combustion chamber (like a diesel) but also has a spark plug in the CC, but also has a throttle blade on its super huge inlet manifold. - I think you would consider it a hoax too.

[Xulfiqar]

I don't think my mechanic would have a fuel pressure gauge. If its a leaky injector, then I could remove the the fuel rail with the injectors installed, turn the ignition switch to on so that the fuel pump pressurizes the fuel line and then visually inspect the injectors for signs of dripping.

Would that be sufficient to identify a leaky injector?

yes it would show the leak, but be careful that the injectors do not eject from the rail and the injector holes are packed with rags and the distributor multiplug connector should be disconnected to avoid any sparks.

[whiteangel]

Got the injectors checked. Turns out they are fine. No leaks.

Engine gives out a little puff of black smoke when starting after being turned off for a few hours, but if you re-start the car again after turning it off, there is no black smoke.

To add to the confusion, the black smoke does not appear all the time, sometimes, I start the car in the morning and it starts up without any black smoke.

Any more ideas on what is causing the problem?

[aamirq]

yar do 1 thng try gettng ur throttle body serviced along with ur maf sensor! yar maf sensor can wear out but i dun think so a throttle body shud and can if maintained properly...iv a 96 civic too vti driven 140k
a clogged airfilter can even cause black smoke! black smoke basically means mixture rich hai! or try getting ur cars ecu scanned by an obd scanner!

[aamirq]

pour a fuel system cleaner in ur cars tank it shud clean all combustion chambers fuel lines etc etc maybe tht shud solve the problem!

[yasirzxc]

put your hand at the exhaust tip opening for a while and smell it.. if it gives pleasant and baked smell then everything is OK it might be just carbon in your exhaust dholki.. if it smells like eye burning and rigid then something is wrong with your mixture.. means something with o2 sensor injectors or throttle body..

[Rocket_mullah]

U have proved ur self again wrong..............
I am telling u that petrol engine and EFI petrol engine don't have fuel injector ok
I am not saying that they don't have fuel injection system ( Clear )
First u need to clear one thing.......ok
There is a big difference between fuel injector and fuel injection system .....u r mismatching both theories.........ok
In petrol engine fuel is mixing with air in carburetor through fuel injectin system................ok
In diesel engine fuel is spraying straight in cyender through fYEL INJECTOR............ok
Now i come back to petrol engine how u think that fuel is mixing with air through injectoer ..........wrong man totally wrong....
Fuel is delevering in carburater through fuel injection system through ECM........may b u still confuse with ECM........ so u need to clear ur concep regarding ECM and EFI

what are you smoking bro
'you just made a bigger fool out of your self on an international form
there is a limit when you need to stop

[aamirq]

mullah bhai chorh do its no use arguing with this person! tym waste hoga! maybe ais ki car mein injector nahee hongay and upar se efi hogi but without injectors! and hawa se chalti hogi!

[Rocket_mullah]

ap ke bat me dam ha chalo man le