Blown rings ? again :(

[ya123]

Hi, i have Mehran 2001 model car, my car was burning oil and giving blue smoke, i changed rings and valve seals . now after exact 2 months
blue smoke starts again.
This occurs last week when i touched 100Km/hr speed, from next day it started blue smoke.
Damnnnn.. is this so weak car that after reaching 100KMs/hr speed , its rings and head valve seals are blown ???
Mechanic asked me to change oil but all in vain.. any idea ?? what happens

Also, can someone suggest me good car in range of 400K

[suzukialtomehran]

Buddy i think you forgot that mehran is 800cc and your mehran is around 9 years old and than after that you rebuild the engine! If you want a good car sale out your mehran and buy a good condition Suzuki Alto or you can get 2003 cultus in 400k to 450K range or you can buy bigger one which is Civic 1995 but i prefer you go for cultus.

[kamilali]

Hi, i have Mehran 2001 model car, my car was burning oil and giving blue smoke, i changed rings and valve seals . now after exact 2 months
blue smoke starts again.
This occurs last week when i touched 100Km/hr speed, from next day it started blue smoke.
Damnnnn.. is this so weak car that after reaching 100KMs/hr speed , its rings and head valve seals are blown ???
Mechanic asked me to change oil but all in vain.. any idea ?? what happens

Also, can someone suggest me good car in range of 400K

have you completed your cars engine "Running" before this adventure,
Changing rings is a cheap solution to eliminate blue smoke, You must go for a complete overhaul, don't know y people don't understand that changing rings cannot strengthen engine, you must disassemble whole engine to diagnose exactly what problem is going on, most of the people never consider piston as a thing, & the advice of lol mechanics, waste their engine & money, mehran's engine overhaul is not that costly that you go for a cheap solution,

& now you have to go for a complete overhaul, & its 90% chances are that pistons are fried causing blue smoke & blah blah

[yamaha135]

Yet, 30 year old bikes that have been re-ringed atleast a dozen times and reach out their peak speeds often still go strong without any failures, same applies for over 50 year old cars.

Its not the engine's fault, it instead is the assemblers fault or could be the rings used were not genuine. make sure the mechanic is well experienced and the rings you pay for are brand new and genuine. Also get the cylinder bored/honed by a experienced machinist, if all above factors are taken into consideration, there is no reason for the engine not to last for years to come without any future re-occurrence of the current issue.

I'm sorry for your loss but mistakes are meant to be learnt from and to come out strong in the end, don't give up on the car over this minor issue cause it really isn't its fault.

[yamaha135]

2ndly, if the engine smokes heavily only in the morning and not all the time at all RPM's then I can safely assume the valve seals are whats causing the problem. but if the car smokes all day and at all rpm's then quiet likely it indeed are the rings. test the car thoroughly before going for repairs.

If it is the valve seals then you will not need to remove the cylinder head to replace the seals, removing the tappet cover is all that will be needed.

[yamaha135]

2ndly, if the engine smokes heavily only in the morning and not all the time at all RPM's then I can safely assume the valve seals are whats causing the problem. but if the car smokes all day and at all rpm's then quiet likely it indeed are the rings. test the car thoroughly before going for repairs.

If it is the valve seals then you will not need to remove the cylinder head to replace the seals, removing the tappet cover is all that will be needed.

[yamaha135]

have you completed your cars engine "Running" before this adventure,
Changing rings is a cheap solution to eliminate blue smoke, You must go for a complete overhaul, don't know y people don't understand that changing rings cannot strengthen engine, you must disassemble whole engine to diagnose exactly what problem is going on, most of the people never consider piston as a thing, & the advice of lol mechanics, waste their engine & money, mehran's engine overhaul is not that costly that you go for a cheap solution,

& now you have to go for a complete overhaul, & its 90% chances are that pistons are fried causing blue smoke & blah blah

I would disagree with all due respect kind Brother. The bottom end if strong can be reused without needing any major servicing in a rebore job. there is a reason the company makes over sized pistons for the users to install them once the standard size pistons give up, the running factor is however very important as the new pistons create an extra load on the bottom end therefore requiring the user to be easy on the throttle in the initial stages.

[kamilali]

I would disagree with all due respect kind Brother. The bottom end if strong can be reused without needing any major servicing in a rebore job. there is a reason the company makes over sized pistons for the users to install them once the standard size pistons give up, the running factor is however very important as the new pistons create an extra load on the bottom end therefore requiring the user to be easy on the throttle in the initial stages.

Your opinion holds a worth bro, but considering it a 2001 model, plus rings n valves work done, then again giving smoke makes something fishy because all the cardealers do this to eliminate smoke for some time & to make fool to the buyer, once a complete overhaul is done perfectly, the car will remain a gem for 4,5yrs or more if taken care,

[yamaha135]

Your opinion holds a worth bro, but considering it a 2001 model, plus rings n valves work done, then again giving smoke makes something fishy because all the cardealers do this to eliminate smoke for some time & to make fool to the buyer, once a complete overhaul is done perfectly, the car will remain a gem for 4,5yrs or more if taken care,

Eliminating smoke temporarily can never be achieved by installing new piston and rings, this process infact eliminates smoke completely. the engine and its power is based majorly on the pistons and the compression they produce. as long as the pistons are producing optimal compression and there happens to be no blowby (smoke) the engine will perform outstandingly and for a lengthy period, but if any one of the 2 lacks, there is no solution but to go for a rebore/oversize pistons.

However, eliminating smoke temporarily can be achieved only by installing expander rails onto the already worn compression and oil rings, which in return controls the smoke for a very limited amount of time.

Now smoke only occurs because the cylinder sleeve in which the piston runs wears gradually thus the piston to cylinder clearance increases resulting in the ring end gaps becoming bigger and only then the oil starts to seep past those gaps into the combustion chamber mixing in with the fuel + air mixture. the bottom end has no role to play in creating that situation until and unless the connecting rods on which the piston travels are worn. Blowby occurs only because of piston/ring failures or valve guide seals being brittle and worn, thats pretty much it.

The bottom end, once assembled at the factory has alot of special qualities that once disturbed can be very hard (if not impossible) to achieve locally. the crank for one is specially trued and balanced at the factory with very complicated and expensive machinery. Therefore, If the bottom end looks and sounded good with no abnormal noises prior dis-assembly, it can be considered good to handle a new top end thereafter.

[kamilali]

Eliminating smoke temporarily can never be achieved by installing new piston and rings, this process infact eliminates smoke completely. the engine and its power is based majorly on the pistons and the compression they produce. as long as the pistons are producing optimal compression and there happens to be no blowby (smoke) the engine will perform outstandingly and for a lengthy period, but if any one of the 2 lacks, there is no solution but to go for a rebore/oversize pistons.

However, eliminating smoke temporarily can be achieved only by installing expander rails onto the already worn compression and oil rings, which in return controls the smoke for a very limited amount of time.

Now smoke only occurs because the cylinder sleeve in which the piston runs wears gradually thus the piston to cylinder clearance increases resulting in the ring end gaps becoming bigger and only then the oil starts to seep past those gaps into the combustion chamber mixing in with the fuel + air mixture. the bottom end has no role to play in creating that situation until and unless the connecting rods on which the piston travels are worn. Blowby occurs only because of piston/ring failures or valve guide seals being brittle and worn, thats pretty much it.

The bottom end, once assembled at the factory has alot of special qualities that once disturbed can be very hard (if not impossible) to achieve locally. the crank for one is specially trued and balanced at the factory with very complicated and expensive machinery. Therefore, If the bottom end looks and sounded good with no abnormal noises prior dis-assembly, it can be considered good to handle a new top end thereafter.

Bro I am slightly aware of all the mechanics involved, but not as specialist as you:),
I am against changing the rings only without considering the pistons & other related stuff involved in smooth & trouble free running of an engine,,
I have seen when people goto the mechanics & complain about smoke, the mechanics(Usually inexperienced) only emphasis on changing rings without checking its real cause & people consider it to be a cheap solution, after doing this job 90% of people claimed that the problem arised again & cursing the car etc etc,

In the above case, I can not say anything without inspecting that what is the real cause of it, may be it some silencer carbon, etc etc, Engine oil is also a major factor of this problem,
Once upon a time, I purchased a Shell 3L can, I changed the oil of my car with it, before that my car was fit & maintained by company, just in a weak, my car start giving smoke, that is increasing day by day to dark blue or even black smoke , & my car's engine ceased, cause was Fake oil, its inspected by Shell mobile lab, & report said that the oil contains a no. of false additives

[dr3vil]

kamilali
man i have a 2002 mehran car is with us since 2005 Feb
once my old mechanic opened engine when it was hot and after 6 months car gave heavy smoke on starting so changed the rings and its been 8 months or so i have done it
but when engine was opened i checked cylinders and every thing cylinders were spot less like from a new car and i did many high speed runs on gt road and pwr isb motor way car is new now as i changed mechanic because he was telling me ur engine needs over haul and gave me a lot of tension on gear box just to take few more $$$ from me and to buy the car from me at a low low low price
@op check it from another mechanic that what the do i was fed up with my car as well but one thing ur car is ok ur mechanic is not

[kamilali]

kamilali
man i have a 2002 mehran car is with us since 2005 Feb
once my old mechanic opened engine when it was hot and after 6 months car gave heavy smoke on starting so changed the rings and its been 8 months or so i have done it
but when engine was opened i checked cylinders and every thing cylinders were spot less like from a new car and i did many high speed runs on gt road and pwr isb motor way car is new now as i changed mechanic because he was telling me ur engine needs over haul and gave me a lot of tension on gear box just to take few more $$$ from me and to buy the car from me at a low low low price
@op check it from another mechanic that what the do i was fed up with my car as well but one thing ur car is ok ur mechanic is not

Bro I have already mentioned that we should consider all of the mechanical aspects involved in the smooth & trouble free running of an engine when going for such a job, just don't consider that your car ring's need to be changed, and I cannot advice anything for poster's car sitting here without proper practical inspection, everyone is like "Hawa mai teer chala rhay hain"
I have already said,
1- May be its not the problem of the rings but huge deposits of carbon in the silencer.
2- May be its some engine oil fault,
3-May bbe hust rings work needed
4-May be complete overhaul is required.
a number of possibilities are there

I know very few mechanics are there that can do a great job and the majority are @$$ hole$

[imtishal]

Have u checked engine oil level?? If it's decreasing oil then yes rings and sleeves are gone.If it's not then there is some other factor involved.

[yamaha135]

Silencer carbon barely ever gets enough on a 4 stroke to start restricting the exhaust gasses, you would need a good amount of rich mixture and lots of time on it for the headers to become restricted. However, on a 2 stroke, carbon is a different story and can accumulate within no time.

Only re-ringing is not something that is recommended, if the rings are worn the pistons automatically are worn themselves considering the extra piston to cylinder clearance there is, no new rings will ever fix the issue until and unless new oversized pistons are installed.

All I'm trying to explain is the basic theory behind compression and smoke, which once understood is convincing enough to assure you that the bottom end has no role to play in the blue, black smoke symptom.

The op/thread starter, however, apparently only has a valve guide seal problem which can easily be fixed by installing new seals.

[kamilali]

Silencer carbon barely ever gets enough on a 4 stroke to start restricting the exhaust gasses, you would need a good amount of rich mixture and lots of time on it for the headers to become restricted. However, on a 2 stroke, carbon is a different story and can accumulate within no time.

Only re-ringing is not something that is recommended, if the rings are worn the pistons automatically are worn themselves considering the extra piston to cylinder clearance there is, no new rings will ever fix the issue until and unless new oversized pistons are installed.

All I'm trying to explain is the basic theory behind compression and smoke, which once understood is convincing enough to assure you that the bottom end has no role to play in the blue, black smoke symptom.

The op/thread starter, however, apparently only has a valve guide seal problem which can easily be fixed by installing new seals.

^^ +1

Stolen my words! thats what I wanna say to it