Cultus 06 Carby- Diagnosis Part 2

[shqamar]

thread subscribe !!

[capsat]

with 67000 on odometer and well managed maintenance schedule am surprised that suzuki engines are giving in so quick.

possibly rings & head job. Rub your index finger in the tail pipe what color is the deposit, is there any oily moisture feel in the soot, soot smell oil or fuel?? remove plugs, snap pictures and post here.

[smijaz]

@OP

Spark Plug Change (5-6K) o Y?

Do they short out by carbon or engine oil?

Considering the results of the Compression test , the issue seems to be inactive spark timing advance mechanism (Centrifugal / vacuum).

Service the distributor.

I hope you are using Shell HX7 (10W-40) as it is good for hydraulic tappets of your car.

[rustam54]

Here you sir. The soot appears to be dark brown in color with absolutely no odor at all. As for the oiliness, its totally dry. No signs of burning oil here.
I'll post the spark plug shots tomorrow.

Snaps may help.

with 67000 on odometer and well managed maintenance schedule am surprised that suzuki engines are giving in so quick.

possibly rings & head job. Rub your index finger in the tail pipe what color is the deposit, is there any oily moisture feel in the soot, soot smell oil or fuel?? remove plugs, snap pictures and post here.

[rustam54]

Yes sir i know 5-6K is too early for a spark plug. To be honest, previously i never had a feeler guage with me. So instead of taking it to the mechanic for tuneup, i'ld throw in new air cleaner, new spark plugs (with factory adjusted gaps), adjust the CNG and it was good to go.

Now that i have one, i'll delay spark plug replacement schedule. And yes I am using shell HX-7

@OP

Spark Plug Change (5-6K) o Y?

Do they short out by carbon or engine oil?

Considering the results of the Compression test , the issue seems to be inactive spark timing advance mechanism (Centrifugal / vacuum).

Service the distributor.

I hope you are using Shell HX7 (10W-40) as it is good for hydraulic tappets of your car.

[Xulfiqar]

Remove the distributor cap and try to rotate the rotor with your hand, it should move and snap back, if its lazy - you need to regrease the distributor centrifugal advance, I would also suggest you check all HT cables with a multimeter and the ignition coil too.

The compression results show that your cylinders are pumping good - the rings and valve seats are in pretty good condition.

Also check the grounding cables to the engine and cylinder head, try hooking up a jumper cable to the battery negative and the cylinder head then drive around. Bad ground can cause this as the plugs do not get a strong path to negative.

[capsat]

thank you it is all clear engine is not in bad shape next step is distributor overhaul.

[capsat]

I may add-

do a close inspection of engine bay and check for all grounding lugs as well.

Guru is right on point, rig an extra ground jumper directly between engine head & battery negative.

Remove the distributor cap and try to rotate the rotor with your hand, it should move and snap back, if its lazy - you need to regrease the distributor centrifugal advance, I would also suggest you check all HT cables with a multimeter and the ignition coil too.

The compression results show that your cylinders are pumping good - the rings and valve seats are in pretty good condition.

Also check the grounding cables to the engine and cylinder head, try hooking up a jumper cable to the battery negative and the cylinder head then drive around. Bad ground can cause this as the plugs do not get a strong path to negative.

[smijaz]

@OP

Just for your info, there is no such thing as factory adjusted gap in spark plugs, it has to be adjusted according to vehicles service manual instructions.

For G10a, set gap between 0.8mm to 0.9mm. you can use v-groove (Y) type NGK with 6 heat range (BP6EY) instead of OEM BP6ES for slightly better service life.

Can you share the degrees of timing advance BTDC on CNG.

If possible check the total advance, i.e. with the help of timing gun check the gradual increase in advance with increase in RPM. There should be a very stable jerk free and gradual increase in the advance angle showing working centrifugal advance mechanism. Note the approx max value.

[rustam54]

@All

It took me a long time to update the thread. Sorry for that.

But today i tried running that jumper cable from battery to engine and afterwards went for a drive. But the sad part is, nothing changed or improved. Up till 3rd gear, the car revs great and goes to 80. Once 4th is applied, its too sluggish to get to 90 and beyond.

For reference,

Also checked the resistance from battery to engine and chassis (before and after jumper install). All were found to be zero. Its safe to say grounding is in good health.

So any more suggestions???

[rustam54]

Refresh...

[capsat]

what about working on distributor ? as suggested by GURU Xulfiqar??

[rustam54]

Jamal bhai i tried that rotor snap test during my last distributor service. As i mentioned in my 1st thread, the rotor snapped alright. Still i opened up the distributor, upto the magnetic sensor (ignition trigger) and tried sparying in some WD40 to remove the minor gunk. Then dropped in some mobil oil drops on the centrifugal weight hinges for high temp lubrication. Also tried snapping the vaccum advance plate. All were working fine. This was like 4 days before the timing was advanced and that jerk problem was removed.

I am pretty sure that mechanism works fine. Two mechanics have pitched in their inputs about the problem. One says it can be distributor confined problem. Needs a service. The other says, it can be a carb related issue and the carb needs cleaning. However both have wavered off the possibility of valve related issue.

And i am not gonna allow them to do a hit and trial (lag gaya to teer, nahin to tukka) method on my car and on my expense :-). So trying to diagnose the root on my own with inputs from you fellows.

[rustam54]

BUMP.

Any other suggestions or diagnostics you may recommend, Xulfiqar and capsat??

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[syncview]

From where have you tried getting the carburettor adjusted?

[rustam54]

From where have you tried getting the carburettor adjusted?

Sir I've tried it getting adjusted from 02 places. One from my old mechanic in Township, the second from a random workshop on college road. (Advised by a friend as he had his khyber's carburator serviced from him. But to be honest, i've never been to any Suzuki 3S workshops. And the carb has never been opened since factory assembly.

To further add, i have tried getting the emissions tested once and the guy advised me to use carb cleaner additive for two fills. I went to him as my car was misfiring on petrol, my doubt was a lean mix. But his analysis was a CO figure in 7-8 whereas it was supposed to be in 3-4. I an unsure about the unit or what it should fall in, but those were the results. If its helpful to diagnose a carb problem, i can get it scanned again and post the report here.

The issue is annoying me day by day. I even think about throwing out this engine and swapping with some efi one. But that would further bring tensions of its own as it would be a used engine and no one knows how it has been kept. If somehow this engine can give me around 12kmpl with liner response, i'll be more than happy.

[capsat]

u haves tested with the carb cleaner spray? - if you know someone with same model of cultus & friend can spare for few hours his vehicle complete distributor try a swap and run few kms. I still believe cuplrit is the distributor

[rustam54]

Today I had a detailed discussion with Mr. smijaz. He was very helpful in highlighting some ways to trace the source of problem. I've tested one (Vacuum advance operation) and the PCV test is yet to be conducted. The following links are for reference. Rotor Snap test seems to be Okay.

//youtu.be/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soXltdhJZUg

However, i cannot seem to operate vacuum plate by suction. The tensioner inside the diaphragm is a tough one. However I can hold it in its place by blocking the passage. It snaps back again when vacuum is released.

//youtu.be/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcRsdxLpVgU

Finally, the plug-unplug effect of distributor vacuum hose on engine rpm.

//youtu.be/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3zAJPVUUTU

You fellows can be the judge and diagnose whether the advance mechanism is operating fine or not. I am going to check the PCV valve on this weekend.

[rustam54]

I have to highlight one more thing. When i drive the car on petrol, the highlighted area always gets that light red shade (Petrol color). You can even see petrol through the air bleed.

Also if i try rev the engine and block the carb entry at the same time, the car chokes out and you can see a small pool of petrol just below the booster. I know thats called "RACE OVER KARNA" in local terms but it shouldnt throw in this much fuel in just 2-4 secs.

Please also advise about the purpose of the following devices (Just for my info). One is mounted on the air cleaner besides CNG venturi...A vacuum operated device

The other is mounted on the carburator. A plunger sort of thing.