Engine Flush after 189,000km

[whiteangel]

@civic_2002
Most synthetic oils will last longer much longer than 10,000km. It is not a marketing gimmick. For example Mobil 1 Extended Performance is good for 15000 miles (not km). The 5000km standard is only applicable for Pakistan because the local oils are not that good.

[civic_2002]

bat local oils ke nahee hote hay
local condition & temp. bhe to dekho na bhai
woh jo mobil1 per likha hota hay 15000 miles ,that's for colder countries & countries with good roads while we have not like that situation,also humidity,moisture factor here also decrease performance of oil
so yeh conditions kisi bhe tarah 15000 miles ke qabil nahee hain

guru mera to acha experience hay marketing techniques ka ( shaid ap ko kabhe kisee mba ya marketing walon se pala nahee para hay)
that mark , i know one company what they have complained that 25,000 km when i asked mechanical engineer there about it, he laughed on it & told that we used marketing techniques for pupil here ( with limited education),pupil here get impressed by this 15,00 miles,15000 km ( actually this miles/km is alos good factor used by lesse ducated pupil to impess others) that look we r talikng intrems of miles,yeh sub techniques hain jis ke liye mba waley 1lac 2 lac salary laitey hain ( jais a simple ap samajh rahey hain waisey to koi bhe 1-2 lac salary na ley ga), bacheyy 6 lav 10 lac parh kar mba karna chor dain gay)

so that marketing guy told me that in some countries there r such oils available who claims that oil will last 60000 miles ( means around near 1 lac km),he showed me complete research work by that company & all related articles were in thier file,

he say that what is harm for oil companies, pupil change at more kms, thier engine will be effected,what ab. ours?

even he showed me chart that some old guys said that we will say change it for 5,000 km then more oil can will sold ,so more benefit for company
but new mbga managers researcged & told that in comparison with this if we write 15,000 or 20,000 km then pupil will be more attracted & thus oil sale will be increase upto 40% which is good for oil comapnies

[asyed00]

It is not true that all oil should be changed on 5000 Kms. Performance of oil depends on their API level. SM grade oils are fine for upto 20,000 Kms. SL grade are good enough for 12000-15000 Kms. But most important oil life also depends on the driving conditions. If the car is running in dirt (desert)envorinment it will decrease the oil life as it will get dirty compared to car driven in normal city conditions. Genuine oil filters are good for upto 10,000 Kms but the same is not available in Pakistan.
civic_2002 Also MBA technique or MBA guy marketing strategy doesn't stands as im concerned. I worked in Saudi Arab and now working in Oil MArketing Company in Pakistan and I am in marketing dept. and a MBA but nothing to do with you are saying. Oil performance matters on its API level and that it set by International Institute and followed by all countries of this world.

[civic_2002]

assyed00bhai jao internt khula hay to searck karlo
api level/grade ka oil change interval sey koi door door tak wasta nahee hay

ur dirt opinion is also wrong
similarly engine hay yaar ,koi khula teen ka dabba nahee key desert mey jaeey gaa to engine mey dirt jaey gaa
engine completely sealed hota hay, cvcaccum hota hay, air tak to jate nahee hay,agar small hole bhee ho jaee tootherwise pressure will create, too much noise will come,pickup will dead

bhi oill filter 10,000 km ya 5,000 per kuch nahee hota change ke liye
,filter hamesha quarter oil rakhta hay apne andar, ap new oil dalo ga then it willl mix with ol dirty oil of filter & thus make all new oil to be dirty in 2-3 minutes
so u r qrong
oil filter always to be replaced with oil change

i think ur education doesnot related to your job in anyway,if u r not MBA urself then dont underestimate MBA's & thier techniques .
How much u have experience u cannot be compared with even fresh MBA ,whether u worked in saudi arab or dubai or uk, fact remians fact
oil performance has no connection with API level,it is standard of

just writing "International Institute" doesnot make weight in your point,please search on internet 1st,then think,after that write
please check on google or any other search engine,be liberal yaar

on wikipedia:
API standards of oil :
The American Petroleum Institute gravity, or API gravity, is a measure of how heavy or light a petroleum liquid is compared to water. If its API gravity is greater than 10, it is lighter and floats on water; if less than 10, it is heavier and sinks. API gravity is thus a measure of the relative density of a petroleum liquid and the density of water, but it is used to compare the relative densities of petroleum liquids. For example, if one petroleum liquid floats on another and is therefore less dense, it has a greater API gravity. Although mathematically API gravity has no units (see the formula below), it is nevertheless referred to as being in “degrees”. API gravity is graduated in degrees on a hydrometer instrument and was designed so that most values would fall between 10 and 70 API gravity degrees

History of development
The U.S. National Bureau of Standards in 1916 established the Baumé scale (see degrees Baumé) as the standard for measuring specific gravity of liquids less dense than water. Investigation by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences found major errors in salinity and temperature controls that had caused serious variations in published values. Hydrometers in the U.S. had been manufactured and distributed widely with a modulus of 141.5 instead of the Baumé scale modulus of 140. The scale was so firmly established that by 1921 the remedy implemented by the American Petroleum Institute was to create the API Gravity scale recognizing the scale that was actually being used.

To derive the API gravity from the density, the density is first measured using either the hydrometer, detailed in ASTM D1298 or with the oscillating U-tube method detailed in ASTM D4052. Density adjustments at different temperatures, corrections for soda-lime glass expansion and contraction and meniscus corrections for opaque oils are detailed in the Petroleum Measurement Tables, details of usage specified in ASTM D1250. The specific gravity is then calculated from the formula below and the API gravity calculated from the first formula above.

Generally speaking 40 to 45 API gravity degree oils have a greatest commercial price and values outside this range have lower commercial price. Above 45 degrees API gravity the molecular chains become shorter and less valuable to a refinery.

Crude oil is classified as light, medium or heavy, according to its measured API gravity.

Light crude oil is defined as having an API gravity higher than 31.1 °API

Medium oil is defined as having an API gravity between 22.3 °API and 31.1 °API

Heavy oil is defined as having an API gravity below 22.3 °API.

Not all parties use the same grading.[1] The United States Geological Society uses slightly different definitions.[2] Simply put, bitumen sinks in fresh water, while oil floats.

Crude oil with API gravity less than 10 °API is referred to as extra heavy oil or bitumen. Bitumen derived from the oil sands deposits in the Alberta, Canada area has an API gravity of around 8 °API. It is 'upgraded' to an API gravity of 31 °API to 33 °API and the upgraded oil is known as synthetic crude

[c123pk]

No Need to Flush an Engine which stays clean (Synthetic oil with cleaning agents) !

[civic_2002]

cleaning agent even present in all mineral oils too.
please check ingredients on oil bottle carefully

synthetic oil also written like this

but even this it is general rule that if u r planning to move either from min. to synthetic or from syn. to mineral ,you have to use flush oilbecause almost 50% pupil do mistake that they dont change filter with oil, that's why that min. oil can mix with synth. & can cause serious damages to engine
therefore flushing is must

2nd point it is always good to flush engine after ceratin km around 40,000 -50,000 even if use mineral oil from beginning or synthetic from beginning, after certain time, resiues of oil, small wera & tears & dirt started accumulating on some parts, if u use flush oil, all parts will be cleaned
some pupil r irritating to flushing oil
if u dont want to use, trty old method , pour all the oils put 4 litre of diesel instead of oil to engine, start engine for 15-20 minutes, engine will be cleaned very good,after that stop engine, drain out all diesel & ur engine is now new & clean

[asyed00]

First of all please try to write in English as Its quite difficult to understand Urdu written in English.
Secondly I know what I am talking and don't need to do my homework I have the technical knowledge and don't want to argue with you as you do not have enough knowledge. Just going by and searching internet doesn't makes anyone engineer. If its that easy then everybody should stop studying and search internet.
Oil filters do have life in relation to their function and if someone told you that its a marketing technique to say this oil is good for 20,000 or 30,000 Kms then that person is also wrong. API stradards are maintained by every company and that reflects oil quality. If that is not the case then why Shell Helix Standard and Helix Super is different? Or What is the difference between Caltex Supreme 5 Star and Havoline Motoroil?
Searching and copying the same from internet is easy but understanding the same is difficult. Why greater the API level oil becomes expensive??? How can one define its product API level??? Why don't local blenders writes their product with API SM and make its price high instead of writing API SG or SJ and making it cheap??? (I know you will again search the interent and copy from there without understanding anyhting).
When you have complete knowledge of anyhting then its better to talk about it.

[c123pk]

@asyed00, thats rude man, we are not here to learn english, are we ? we are here to talk wheels the Pakistani way, so to me, Civic 2002 is fine, he is conveying his message clearly, thats all i need

[civic_2002]

@syed00(for you i am writng in pure english otherwise i would write in just routine roman style which most pakwheelers used to do )but anyway its seems that you are new to internet & also some factor is of your age that's why always pupil like in your age always try to do squeezy techniques & pros. & cons. of technology
YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEGE AT ALL,THAT'S WHY U TRY TO FIND CREEPERS IN OTHER POSTS, WHEN U DONT FIND ANYONE THEN U WROTE ABOUT THIS ENGLISH,
(AB IS UMAR MEY ROUTINE SE HAT KAR BAAT HO TO WAQI MUSHKIL SE SAMAJH ME ATE HAY)
THIS POST SIMPLY REFLECTS THAT U R NEW TO INTERNET WORLD MAY BE 5-6 YEARS OLD BUT WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE U JUST WANT TO IMPOSE YOUR EXPERIENCED THOUGHTS, EXPERIENCE IS NOTHING WITHOUT BASIC KNOWLEDGE, THAT'S WHY U R BEHIND
U R PRESENT ON INTERNET & YOU SIMPLY DONT KNOW THE DIFFERNCE OF URDU,ENGLISS & ROMAN URDU.
please go back,sit & try to learn
anyway coming to topic your post simply shows that u need to do ur homework urgently because may be your mba degree is of just the buy one.( mba degreee without any knowledge)

Mr. asyed00 becomes anger very quickly( aah that may be due to his age factor)
LISTEN TO ME I DONT HAVE ANY PERSONAL ISSUE WITH U THEN Y U R TRYING TO STRETCH THE CHEWING GUM, I STILL DONT UNDERSTAND
yes man this is fact that u dont have any knowledge at all & u cannot argue bcoz u dont have any base facts,that's why u think that oother dont have knowlege(U amy heard "grapes r sour" if not ,go to school & learn

ur post simply opens your facts,1st you have to go to school
go to any dealer with me to any suzuki,honda ,toyota & ask there when the filter should change, i explained all the facts why filter holds, what holds & even then u r arguing
(ACTUALLY U COMES IN THOSE CATEGORY OF PUPIL WHO JUST WANT TO ARGUE FOR ARGUE,NOTHING MORE)

u dont have enough study sou dont know that what is marketing techniques?
API is not realted to quality ,it is standard of its manufacturing
I am reday to teach u know so listen carefully

shell helix std. & helix super if different ,it is due to thier chemical composition,specifications, each one is of good quality ,no one is bad quality but each has differnt specifications, ingredients so each one is manufactured to meet according to differnt engine's requirement
that's why some engine require special ingredients so company put that ingredients in ordinary shell helix std. to make helix super so definitely company will recover cost of that chemicals which they added so that's why in blue shell there are differnt composition,thier purifying method is different, thier composition differs ,so that's why all of them hav diff. prices
same is differnce between your Caltex Supreme 5 Star and Havoline Motoroil
YOU CANNOT SAY ANY OIL BAD OR CHEAP,IT IS GOOD FOR ANOTHER CAR.
without understanding ( which u r doing without using ur mind,just argue) the things,search copy paste has no use at all
the one which i have posted by reading,undeerstanding then quote(YOU SIMPLY DONT UNDERSTANG BUT ONLY BECAUSE OF UR EGO PROBLEM,YOUR AGE FACTOR, becomes irritate & u do yourself copy paste that's why u think that other also do like same, but dera u r wrong this time

greater API greater cost is the one which world is moving, have u ever seen SX,SY,SZ

no no why? because companies r researching & finding techniques to prepare acc. to that standard /specifications
after 4-5 months new standard manufactured because all companmies researched in labs that by adding this ingredients ,oil qulaity becomes more good,that's why every year new standars r coming 7 similarly company ask for time,money theyt spend in research ,that's why they put high price( if u understand)

local producers are not writing because they have to follow procedures(this is engineering techniques which non engineers like u cannot understand)
QC department follows manual, let suppose if in mehran it is written that engine needs SF grade oil,if some one put SA oil by pasting label of SF ,then engine's efficiency will be reduced,parts will be damaged( u r wrong instead i know u are serrchiong now internet & try to copy opaste ) without understanding JUST FOR ARGUE PURPOSE
It is better you first learn urself,then talk or write
blaming game which you are trying to paly is old technique. try to learn something really because this is growing world,try to learn 1st then argue(dont do argue just for argue)
so it is better time for you to go now ,u urself you have inferior complexity of being non engineer so better go now, do homework , try to gain some knowlegdge(for your age even fewer is enough) then it will be better for you to talk

as @c123pk clearly wrote that's already slap on your face so u can easily judge that what he has written & why he agrees & wrote that civic_2002 is fine because of logics & sensible arguments ( not just argue for argue which u did)
I have alreday conveyed message clearly & now it is upon you to either digest it or to just argue( to hide your disinformation)
that's all we need

[civic_2002]

@all pupil i am very worry because tommorow mr asyed00 might tell that name"pakwheel" is wrong it is roman or shorten english so might be he has some some issue with this name too so beware

@ asyed00
dont argue now on pakwheels,who put this name,why etc..?

[omar4494]

I am agreed with asyed00, i am not here to fight, just to share my experience. i am using this oil MOS2, 10w-40 from last over two years. i am pretty much satisfied. I feel little bit low engine noise, extended engine life (my one vehicle is over 100k), and i am changing it between 12500 km to 15000 km although i am changing oil filter at 7000km, Alhamdullah i am happy and my cars too.

[asyed00]

Civic 2002 you looks out of your mind. Arguing without having knowledge of anything. I guess you have same knowledge of any Footpath mechanic. Ingredients used in oil makes it better... wow... & why that differs its API level then? SY & SZ are not made yet. And by the who told you these levels come very year.. Go and search you internet again.. And what levels are used to commercial vehicles?? And using synthetic oil in older model cars wont do any good to your engine why is that then?? You said nothing goes inside the engine its completely sealed.. Why yooil gets dirty then?? You have such small mind & thinking that C123pk slapped on me...chch... I feel sorry for you my friend.

C123pk its not rude I just said its better to understand English written in English. Might others have no problem with that. And I dont get angry with people like Civic 2002 coz its just a forum but giving wrong info. to people when someone doesnt have the knowledge is a crime.

[civic_2002]

asyed00
i can challenge u even in court for misguing other pupil , u r just arguing for misguiding others, you dont have even

knowledge of footpath mechanics that's why u talk like this, footpath mech. hav more knowledge than u

u hav. inferiority complex & to overcome this u r trying to impose ur personal exp. without any logic or reseacrh
( it is better for u to read signature of whiteangel then open ur mouty)

i bet u & challenge u, u can go with any pakwheeler to any dealer in karachi any toyota,honda,suzuki,
ask them & rcord them that after how much mielage?? when they tell record & listen that one

also read manaul of any car & search time to change oil
u will find answer urself, u hav no education, no knowledge, ii am sursprised that how company hire such person who dont

know marketing, who dont hav. enough knowledge, no good education,no manners ( may be u bought mba degree from som private

institute)

it is the oil ingredients which makes certain chemical properties ( if u have read chemistry)
u havenot
API u dont know what API is u just have seen this API written on some oil that's why u r using that term (common illiterate

pupil's problem)
u even dont dont know that what is API ,what it stands for etc...m,why it emerges
API are not level, they are differnt standars for composition to meet engine's requirements.

u have cablent so u have wstae money to be wasting in searching over internet because illiterate pupil like u do this, dont

do homework just serach on internet, that's why they think like this

oil standards comes each ever to underatnable for layman like you who dont know that what is internationmal standard ?

atleast 9-10 months for research work required for researach,new srtandard,new products. in that period they gather

compain, they test completely ,after that they completely emerge

u have not enough education to undertand "commercial vehicle" just go to market & buy any dictionary of 15-20 Rs. & see

what is term comm. vehicle
any vehicle which is udused ofor earning purpose /business purpose by which you can help earning money then that is comm.

vehicle,
even if mehran comes in taxi in 800 cc. then it is comm. vehicle & govt. take extra tax on it

so comm. vehicle itself dont have any standard
i understand illiterate pupil commonly refer comm. vehicles as diesel cars but u r wrong

[civic_2002]

asyed00
i can challenge u even in court for misguing other pupil , u r just arguing for misguiding others, you dont have even

knowledge of footpath mechanics that's why u talk like this, footpath mech. hav more knowledge than u

u hav. inferiority complex & to overcome this u r trying to impose ur personal exp. without any logic or reseacrh
( it is better for u to read signature of whiteangel then open ur mouty)

i bet u & challenge u, u can go with any pakwheeler to any dealer in karachi any toyota,honda,suzuki,
ask them & rcord them that after how much mielage?? when they tell record & listen that one

also read manaul of any car & search time to change oil
u will find answer urself, u hav no education, no knowledge, ii am sursprised that how company hire such person who dont

know marketing, who dont hav. enough knowledge, no good education,no manners ( may be u bought mba degree from som private

institute)

it is the oil ingredients which makes certain chemical properties ( if u have read chemistry)
u havenot
API u dont know what API is u just have seen this API written on some oil that's why u r using that term (common illiterate

pupil's problem)
u even dont dont know that what is API ,what it stands for etc...m,why it emerges
API are not level, they are differnt standars for composition to meet engine's requirements.

u have cablent so u have wstae money to be wasting in searching over internet because illiterate pupil like u do this, dont

do homework just serach on internet, that's why they think like this

oil standards comes each ever to underatnable for layman like you who dont know that what is internationmal standard ?

atleast 9-10 months for research work required for researach,new srtandard,new products. in that period they gather

compain, they test completely ,after that they completely emerge

u have not enough education to undertand "commercial vehicle" just go to market & buy any dictionary of 15-20 Rs. & see

what is term comm. vehicle
any vehicle which is udused ofor earning purpose /business purpose by which you can help earning money then that is comm.

vehicle,
even if mehran comes in taxi in 800 cc. then it is comm. vehicle & govt. take extra tax on it

so comm. vehicle itself dont have any standard
i understand illiterate pupil commonly refer comm. vehicles as diesel cars but u r wrong

[civic_2002]

synthetic oil has higher sp. gravity & density. while mineral oil has lesser so when if synthetic oil used in older engine

then it will cause more wear & tear because engine already exposed to mineral oil & all pistons/rings are used to it
because metals have tendency to respond to oxidation,reducing actions, carbonization etc.) so they respond to mineral but

if used synthetic ,that syn. oil will be hard for all ruuber,all sealed & that heaviness cause pistons,rings,seal,kits all to be leak out so that's why pupil hav to flush engine if they plan to shift from syn. to mineral or vice versa

[civic_2002]

.

[civic_2002]

ll metals hav tendency to change acc. to exposed environment,rust is simple exaple of curting of iron to ferric oxide
perhaps chemmical reaction is like this 9 class che. students reconfirm it. 4Fe + 3O2=2Fe2O3

[civic_2002]

so pistons & rubbeers when continously exposed to low categ. mineral oil, they have differnt ratio of oxidation,reduction,
but if u exposed them to high synth. oil thier all chemical prop. are dffernt so they will increase all this oxidation so it
will start losing efficiency,also metal will be seriously damage that's why flushing oil is needed to clear up the residue of previous oil

[civic_2002]

funny u think that engine is like open teen dabba ,that's completely wrong (ACTUALLY U DONT HAVE ENOUGH EDUCATION &
KNOWLEDGE THAT'S WHY U R JUST ARGUING)
engine is completely sealed & there is vaccuum inside
if it is not then when u service ur car then all water, kerosene oil, even air will enter into engine & cause pressure & engine will be stop
also if there is any opening then why do 4 litre or same litre drain out at service although u put same 4 litre oil at last service
so try to think,use brain if u have.
do u studied physics or do u know what is sound?
even if u put small hole in ur silencer it will make enough noise, which is very far from main engine body so lets think if u make small hole in ur engine, then so much noise will come which is enough to make u deaf.
also all engine pressure will lose, pickup will be decrease( oil may leak) & car stops
now another funny question why oil becomes dirty,
actually with passage of time oil chnages its chemical properties, its appearance ,color because of high temperature, also oil is used for lubricationg

[civic_2002]

so in engine there r many parts, some plastic,some metals, some rubber,some seals, all when becomes hot, they giv wear &

tear & thier parts got wear & tear but due to high temperatre they converted into liquid thicker form
(for explanation study 6 class science book ,states of matter)
also refer 9 class chemistry book that at how temperature, rubber melts, metal melts,plastic melts?(all matter hav

melting/boiling point) but ur posts seems that u may hav not read all this, that's y arguing
so all this dirt mix with oil,also at time of pouring or addoing oil some small dirt,some sand also goes with oil,
so these all things make oil thicker & thicker & heavier & heavier& daily it becomes soo
so oil tending to lose its chemical & physical properties, its melting point may change etc. so its behaviour also varies
that's why engineers recommend that at 5,000 km or 3,00 miles it is enough time to change oil ( if u do it early no problem)

beacuse after 5,000 km every oil becomes little thicker & due to this it is load for engine to circulate /rotate that oil in

all engine parts bcoz all oil goes to all parts of engine, cause them lubricate & reduce friction
but due to thicker it will be heavier to circulate through all parts so all parts produce more friction ( & that's why due

to this extra effort sometimes temp. may increase)
so this heaviness causes more pressure on engine & difficult in circulation
also some parts are very delicate like seals of ruber, if they exposed to hi viscous they become torn out

that's why this is all reason for dirty oil

that's why for older engine it is not recomm. to use syn. oils

u r just giving ur post on your experience without ur education & logics, YOU R SUCH ILLITERATE PERSON who knows only

arguing
even if u have claimed that my mind is small, thanks Allah bcoz u dont have even that small mind,
u dont have even smaller/smallest mind ,although footpath mech. has more mind than you
( now it is alraedy slap on ur mouth whether u accept or not) if u ever go to school just read once again story of "GRAPES

R SOUR"
i am double sorry for you my friend for such mentality

synthetic oil in older model cars wont do any good to your engine ,now u should understand

now if u want to argue just for argue, i cannot say to this.. try to leran something from here, not just sending posts

....c123pk
leave him dear,here u will find many puil like this who dont hav. education,knowledge, trying to catch your words, trying to

find some weakness in your posts( bcoz they dont have any solid point due to lack of knowledge)
such pupil do crime themselves by wrong misinformation & blame others because they dont hav any scientifict reason to proof

thier argue
u can see signature of whiteangel

aur yaar hum to aisa he apne style pakis tyle mey baat karen gay
actually less educated pupil english likh & bol kar samajhtay hain key hum english waley ho gayee
( kawwa chala hans ke chaal apni bhe bhool gaya)
iam still proud of my language urdu & will continue to use roman urdu (because urdu script not available here)
anyway carry on dude