-Formula 1 - Season 2010 -

[Blackeye117]

already said soory for that mate .... didnt saw your link at that time

[mani1]

I am sorry if I sounded rude. Its just I am so angry right now. I was a Ferrari fan even till yesterday and to be honest I had also started appreciating Alonso but this changes things alot for me and for many other Ferrari fans. Not only Schumacher incident but also Alonsos comments on Di Grassi after the race and Ferrari pits calling him w@nker. Di Grassi was racing for track position and not for charity!

[genius83]

@Blackeye117
Bro, one thing regarding posting, please post all the one liner comments in one post as you have already seen that @Storm has already edited m_waqas posts for the very same reason. I hope from now on you would do it.

[Blackeye117]

@ maani . No Need To Sorry For That Its Totally Ok I Respect You I Respect You Emotions I Know How It Feels Like In Anger I just Pointed Out That For Our Good Your Good And Everyones Good ....

@genius Yes i know that but sometime i forget that and i realise after the post i treid alot to find a delete option but couldnt find that anywhere cant delete after posting thats why sometimes you see that .. i will try my best to concentrate on that

As You All know that thanks to loadshedding on my side i was unable to watch the whole race so i'll download it and then watch it so will report if a see anything or get something strange and will point out and talk about it ...

@genius i was watching the start on Star sports so was listning to slater .. he was out of his mind i think alonso's car was standing in the pits before the start and he said here's a veiw from MS's car ... and then said oh its from alonso's ferrari ...he is old enough to forget things now ...

[m_waqas]

lets not forget that schumi spent his prime years with Ferrari ...
and i m not trying to fuel any arguments ...

eddie only for u..enjoy your adulthood ...
FORMULA 1 GRAND PRIX DE MONACO 2010

[genius83]

@Blackeye117
I have also heard that and I start banging my head in the wall:P, come on its been 4 years now that Michal has sit in a Red car and still Steve makes such a blunder thats unforgiven by any means.

A suggestion for you, if you wants to combine your different comments which you have posted in just mins. after each other and no one else has posted in between them then edit the first post put all the other comments in there and use report abuse button on all the other comments requesting to mods for deleting those extra comments.

When you watch the race, try looking for some things like after Barrichello's crash what he did, also what did the Ferrari pits tell Alonso after he pass the Virgin of Di Grassi. You will find some things which are quite debatable.

@All
Okay so as Michal's case is in the court what would you think been the verdict, as I have found some pics which are contradiction of FIA's decision making.

Remember this
Melbourne 2009
Race ended behind the safety car and safety car goes into the pits on the last lap but SC boards and Yellow Flags are not withdrawn till the finish line.

Monza 2009
Hamilton crashes on the last lap and a full course Yellow with SC boards deployed but no SC came out. Drivers still finish in the order they were with no overtaking till the finish line.

Monaco 2010
Safety car came in on the last lap and SC boards and Yellow Flags are recalled with green flags and lights started to shows on the last 2 corners.

From another angle, this one shows Marshal waving green flag.

Also, Brundle and Coulthard was convinced that it was a legal move by Michal, now either they are saying it because of Spanish hatred or they geniuninly knows what they are saying and what the rules are in that regards. I was the first one here who says that Michal will most likely penalise but after seeing the rules and the way in the past such incidents are handed I am now of the opinion that Michal should noyt be penalised at all for that.

As UK said that he was expecting to give Alonso his 6th and Michal could demote to 7th it is not possible because rules does not allow that for swapping of positions. The minimum penalty was drive through which means in Monaco about 20 secs, or a stop/go which means about 27 or 28 secs.

[khurem]

It's simple. Schumacher has been unfairly penalized here. It was easy for stewards, including Damon Hill, to penalize him, given the negative reputation he has (courtesy of British Media mainly). But even if he broke a rule (which he didn't), he was not at fault.

One can clearly see green flags. If it's safety car period still, then there should be no green flag and instead yellow flags should be waved by the stewards. However, one can see a lot of green flags at the time Schumi passed Alonso, and there was not a single yellow flag. Green flag means it's normal race and overtaking is allowed. So who's fault is this? Should stewards also be penalized?

Plus, Michael was told by the radio by his team that he can now overtake. So team should be penalized, not a particular driver.

Safety car in this lap was shown in screen. In races like Melbaourne 2009, this message never appeared as the intention is that the race will end under safety car. Here in Monaco 2010, the intention was that Safey car will go off on last lap. So that's completely different situation.

Bias against shumi is also visible as Stewards decided to give him 20 second penalty. It was calculated so that the end position comes out of top 10 positions and hence outside points. If it was a communication problem, then they should have only swapped the positions after the race and Schumacher should only be reverted back to his 7th position, as he wasn't at fault. No rationale for 20 sec penalty is justified in that case.

In the end, it was just victimization by Stewards, including Damon Hill, giving him chance to settle his own score. It was easy for him to do that so blatantly, as in Schumacher case, all the press would be against him. And due to the huge popularity of Monaco 2006, creating an infamous Monaco 2010 against Schumacher was too good an opportunity to miss by the stewards.

[RedBull_ar]

Remember this
Melbourne 2009
Race ended behind the safety car and safety car goes into the pits on the last lap but SC boards and Yellow Flags are not withdrawn till the finish line.

that was my original question aswell, thanks for the answer.

so in case the race is finished under safety car ( safety car in pits, but race in SC mode ) the marshals still wave yellow flags and show SC boards. that makes total sense.

but in monaco, we had green flags.
i believe it was an error on race control and marshals part. MS being penalized seems harsh.

p.s
interesting to note
ppl hated MS because FIA favored Ferrari, and MS was the eventual beneficiary.

now ppl are hoping FIA favors Ferrari, so that MS learns its not his F1
i mean shouldnt Ferrari also learn its not their F1 as well?

[Blackeye117]

@genius I will Surely do that as you said ...

And i think it was a mistake by race control.. and If Its a mistake by race control to show the green flags . than what will happen ? any light on this guys ?

MS told over the Radio You can Overtake .. Alonso Was Told Over the Radio You Can Not Overtake This Is strictly forbidden He Was about to make a move on hamilton as he said ....

that means a race control error i think ....
what will be the decision then ?

[UncleKracker]

Trolling of unprecedented level on F1 thread:D

[m_waqas]

^ ya true .... thats why controversy sells..

[genius83]

@Khurem
That penalty was not bias against Michal may be the decision to penalise Michal a bit bias but not the penalty, because a drive through means 20 secs in the pits because of the lower pitlane speed limit. And stewards have awarded him a driver through penalty.

As for your second option swapping positions it is not possible because rules don't allow such things at all.

@RedBull_ar
Bro, I have not seen the last lap and certainly don't know that they have withdrawn the Yellow flags and SC boards thatswhy I was amazed with Schumacher's pass, but now I am convinced that the race ended under normal conditions and that pass is a legitimate pass.

@Blackeye117
The only thing that could happen is Schumacher would get his 6th position back and Alonso will be push back to 7th, if the appeal withheld otherwise the altered results will stand.

@UK and m_waqas
No thats why F1 is popular and thats what Bernie wants.

[genius83]

Victories set to secure Webber's future
Mark Webber's stunning back-to-back victories in Spain and Monaco appear to have secured his future at Red Bull Racing, with team chiefs saying they have no doubt that they should keep him on board for next season.

Tyre choice between Pirelli and MichelinFormula 1's tyre choice for next year is now a straight two-way fight between Pirelli and Michelin, Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali has confirmed.

Renault buoyed by Monaco showing
Renault believes Formula 1's group of four big teams has now become five after its brilliant form in the Monaco Grand Prix.

Hamilton: Red Bull cruising in Monaco
McLaren's Lewis Hamilton believes rival Red Bull was just cruising during the Monaco Grand Prix on Sunday, and he reckons the team is miles ahead of the rest.

Williams confirms Monaco crashes' cause
Williams has confirmed the causes of the separate accidents suffered by Rubens Barrichello and Nico Hulkenberg during Sunday's Monaco Grand Prix.

Ferrari says F-duct improvement is keyFerrari thinks it's vital to get its F-duct working better at the Turkish Grand Prix if it is going to close down the gap to Red Bull Racing.

[UncleKracker]

Karma is a bi**h. What goes around comes around.

I am against the penalty but the pass was not on, never. The changes to 2010 regulations are pretty clear. The safety car goes in on the last lap just so the winner, who has worked hard for his win, can take the chequered flag not behind safety car. It's just one of those things, to make it look good, it's artificial.

40.11 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message "SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP" will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car's orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if necessary, fall more than ten car lengths behind it.
In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.
As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be displayed until the last car crosses the Line.

40.12 Each lap completed while the safety car is deployed will be counted as a race lap.

40.13 If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

The appeal has no hope. It will most likely be withdrawn by Mercedes, even before hearing. If not, the decision will be upheld, if anything the penalty might be removed because of " exceptional circumstances " giving Schumacher 7th place, which he should have had, but the stewards had no choice once it was clear it was not a legitimate pass. If they hadn't, teams behind him would have appealed.

[genius83]

@UK
The whole point is what Line they are referring, the Start/Finish line or the first Safety Car line. If 4.11 applied then 4.13 nullified if 4.13 applied they are contradicting to what actions they have taken.

They have not change any rule regarding Safety car apart from the first Safety Car line rule. What if they are assuming the Safety Car Line as the Line then it means after that everyone is allowed to try something to gain a position, which Hamilton did by pushing wide Webber and gets away with that.

4.13 cannot be applied because for that a Melbourne or Monza 2009 type situation is necessary, which was not happens at Monaco. They have called the safety car in which was not happens in Melbourne while In Monza Safetty Car never cameout because of the last lap but the cars finish in the same order as they were just before the SC deployed and Yellows waved.

[m_waqas]

Tyre choice between Pirelli and Michelin

hmm..interesting...no cheap (cost wise) cooper anymore..i've a hunch that they'll go for Michelin though Perilli is so far favorite...
steve shall we continue our tyre war discussion now?...

@UK and all..
it seems very typical (almost like F1 team's attitude) that everyone's interpreting those rules at his behest...reading b/w the lines in way which favor their driver ... very natural and understandable... though i m convinced by UK's justification but at the same time i m also sure that someone will point out some flaw in those rules still..

No thats why F1 is popular and thats what Bernie wants.

haha..ya rite...bernie must be ecstatic...

[genius83]

@m_waqas
Yes, so answer these questions in what you think is right.

what you think of Tyre war?
what it really means? Is it just a commercial aspect or Is it something related to racing.
Do you think that it is expensive or not?

The discussion will commence as soon as you answered these questions.

[m_waqas]

hmm...so m i in some kind of quiz show or what...just kiding..
here u go..

what you think of Tyre war?
i think it at least sounds very cool...but its not a war in real sense as its just an effort to get a contract...it would be a war if both or multiple suppliers were allowed and they would fight for supermacy in F1 through their performance in races.

what it really means? Is it just a commercial aspect or Is it something related to racing.
commercial aspect??..didn't get that..its definetly related to racing as tires are the essential/critical component of any car...

Do you think that it is expensive or not?
i guess so..its kind of expensive if team are going to pay for their tires...
but its good to see teams not opting for cooper because of financial feasiblity...it means teams are ready to spend some reasonable amount on tires. As u've said somewhere before that from next year budget cap will be enforced so all the teams will have to restrict their expenditure in that cap. So i think its practical.

[RedBull_ar]

as other said, everyone reads the rules to their advantage, im gonna do the same

if the race was ended under safety car, rule 40.11 doesn't apply.

its the rule 40.13 which is applied, in which case, there is no mention of green flags being waved.

but since they displayed SAFETY CAR IN message and green flags, it appears, rule 40.11 was applied, in which case, racing and overtaking was allowed from the "line"

which line? according to 40.7, "overtaking is forbidden until the cars reach the first safety car line after the safety car has returned to the pits."

MS had crossed the SC line. hence he is safe

but i dont think penalty will be reversed and merc might just decide to move on.

[genius83]

@m_waqas
Thanks for the answers, my first question was for the old days not the future, tyre war of the old days has give us 2 controversies from 2003 and 2005. It may look like a bias of FIA towards Ferrari and Bridgestone as both the times they were beneficaries but in reality Michelin has done equal share of stupidity in those years.

Commercial Aspect, is a big question for any company, Imagine if Cooper or Kumho companies wins the contract then they get publicity of their brands across the whole world which could give them a healthy boost in the sales department also people knows their name more then they knows now.

Racing only comes when you are providing equal circumstances, not when one is having a huge advantage, because to overcome that the one who is behind has to invest heavily and making the costs upwards.

Budget cap will makes it even more difficult, because now if Michelin wants 8 Million pounds per team for a season then out of the budget cap of 45 Million pounds for the car development including salaries of the team members excluding the drivers could hampered. As some one said that with such a budget cap designers like Adrian Newey will not be available for any team at all. The value of the budget cap is for real and not a make up as this has been decided by the teams last year.

Tyre war always referred to when 2 or more tyre manufacturers are in the sports, Michelin wants at least 2 tyre manufacturers in the sports. While Pirelli is ready to become a sole supplier. Teams excluding McLaren, Renault and Ferrari wants Pirelli to returns while these 3 teams wants Michelin.

If any one asks me I am also in favour of Pirelli because of Michelin's track record espcially the 2005 Tyre Fiasco. But because of Jean's presence as the FIA boss I have a feeling Michelin will be the sole supplier. I am also don't want more then one tyre supplier because for last 3 seasons had provide excellent racing and am sure that this season will also provides excellent racing.