@genius83
So please clear one thing for me too, RedBull in its all previous forms have ever won a title or not. Because I remember a certain team chief being the boss of another team who wins back to back title back in the mid 90's under the banner of Benetton. And just to be more specific that comment about the difference between teams's experience to fight for the title is your's and not mine.
It must have been my comment, the one about a team's experience etc. To quote Jean Alesi, " all his success is down to only TWO drivers. Micheal Schumacher and Fernando Alonso " Alesi was talking about the man you are talking about, Flav. Again i don't see the point you are trying to make. So they won two titles in '94 and '95, and?
Red Bull was what, Jaguar and Stewart GP before that. That was almost always a Ford operation. Jackie Stewart and Ford go back a long way and they bought the team off him and renamed it Jaguar (which Ford owned) So we should count the years Ford has been involved in F1 in some way? Your choice, if you want to go back 20 years, we can go back 40 years too.
Again, if someone thinks Red Bull is just " some team " then they are delusional. Adrian Newey does not work for just " any " team and Red Bull is not your Murussia or HRT. They have thrown millions and millions at F1, they owned two F1 teams and still do for all practical purposes. So it's not like an underdog upsetting the applecart, David vs Goliath.
In 2005 and 2006, I was routing for the driver from Ferrari so I can't be happy with what happened but whatever you say about those years, you still can't say that Renault pysched out Ferrari like RedBull did. It was just like Pakistan beating Brazil in a Football match, everyone would say that they expect the other way around result in such a match and will be astonished as to how could this result happens.
Does that not go against everything you have said all along? You biggest argument, as much as i can recall is, Red Bull being the underdog and you wanting a NEW team to win etc etc. Much like you are enjoying it this year when the established teams are being challenged. How is 2005 and 2006 different then? It, Renault, was a very small team compared to the mighty Mclaren and Ferrari and beat them with half the budget. If that wasn't enough, they ( Renault ) beat Adrian Newey and Rory Byrne designed cars!
You have always shied away from your liking of Vettel so i assumed you ONLY liked Red Bull because they were taking on the big boys and not because you secretly always liked Vettel;)
Why, I think RedBull have the upper hand and Ferrari struggle is based on the same assumption that I did just around the end of first 4 races this season. RedBull's performance in last 2 years combining with the first 4 races give me the idea that in 2010 RedBull wins all the aero dependent tracks, like Barcelona, Silverstone, Sepang, Suzuka. While in 2011 RedBull's performance comes on the Montreal, Spa, Monza, Singapore. Only Monaco was the track where they won in both seasons, again this season they have performed excellently on both aero dependent and mechanical dependent tracks. They have won Monaco, Silverstone, Bahrain, apart from penalty have the pace in Hockenheim. Leading the Valencia race until mechanical failure, the pace showing in Hungaroring in the last 10 laps were outstanding. In China work the strategy that was less favourable, Sepang was wet dry race with no significant deduction possible, Barcelona and Montreal were worked out better then they thought.
Before i answer that, here is another of your quote after the GP of Bahrain.
@UK
The domination period is started bro, mark my words.
RedBull will win the next 2 GPs and then Canada will give us another chaotic race before the European season kicksoff with Valencia.
I tried to look for another one but couldn't find it. I missed quite a bit of last season and some where in this thread you informed me that Red Bull was suffering even last year on aero dependent tracks last season too and the example you gave was Red Bull losing at Suzuka.
It's interesting that everything you say is based on what happened last year or the year before, in the era of blown diffuser and what not.
The way i see it.
This year the cars are so closely matched-that one small difference, track layout, track temperature up or down by a few degrees, tire compounds etc make a huge difference from race to race. The difference is not just one or two points but can be the difference between winning and finishing 5th or 8th whatever.
Red Bull and no name team aka Lotus love warm conditions. Bahrain, Valencia and to some extent Hungaroring were all tracks where we had high temperature. So when ever conditions are like that, those two teams will do very well. You can see the same performance pattern in no name teams showing this season. The few races where they got really close to a win were tracks where the temperature was on the high side, Bahrain, Valencia, Hungaroring to name a few.
It's based on that, that I have maintained Raikkonen not winning Spa unless Spa this year produces an almost unbelievably hot weekend. The last time a Spa weekend was almost completely dry was when? The average temperature is in the 20's. Hardly conditions where Raikkonen's car should excel even though it should be well suited to the track.
Monza, the temple of speed, it can get quite hot at Monza but how often does Red Bull do well at an out and out power track? This is not 2011. Red Bull will need high track temperature to out perform Mclaren, Ferrari, Mercedes and Lotus on that track.
Singapore, if for a second we go by your logic which is, Raikkonen has always gone well at Spa and so he must win this year then Alonso should pretty much own Singapore, right? Even in 2008, with all that happened, there was never any doubt in how fast he was there throughout the weekend, same for '09 and 2010. But he won't win there because Ferrari has a problem with low speed corners. That should be more a Red Bull, Lotus, Mclaren track.
Suzuka, another track where rain is a possibility and one that is quite similar to Silverstone. If my memoray serves me right, a certain Spanirad, driving a Ferrari was leading at Silverstone in the dry:S And i should also point out that you are wrong about Ferrari struggling with hard compound. Again it's like you are living in 2011. They had problems with hard tires last year and the year before. This year the problem is soft tires not hard.
South Korea, two races there in total and again you analysis are based on what happened last year and the year before. Do you remember the rain of 2010? Guess what, this year there have been a couple of wet qualifying sessions and a dry/wet/dry race. Who has been on top in those conditions this year? But lets leave that aside for a moment because who can have a forecast. One thing we know though, it should be anywhere from mild to cold given its in the middle of October.
Indian GP, one race, i didn't watch it i think. Maybe watched the highlights, no sure but if it's an aero dependent track with few slow corners then based on what we have seen this season and your own statement, that Red Bull suffers on aero dependent tracks, it should not be a walk in the park for them and guess what, yes, some how that race should be in mild conditions aswell given it's right at the end of October.
On to the famous Yas Marina. It could be anything from mild to slightly on the hotter side but nothing like 40 C or something given it's a pretty late start but yes that can be a dicey one.
Austin. No idea but it's in November. The average maximum high for November is around 22 C:-#
Brazil, humid, high possibility of rain, can be warm, can be anything and possibily the title fight will be over by that time too. It might actually be over by the time we get to Austin or maybe someone will be in there with a mathematical chance.
That's how i see them based on how the cars and drivers have gone this year in the first 11 races of the season.
For Spa and Monza, the tyre choices are Hards and Softs, hards are Ferrari's weakness and that is what I am basing my whole assumptions on.
I think you should check again. First of all, the tires being brought for Spa and Monza are Hards and Mediums, not Hards and Softs as you say. Second of all, Ferrari do not struggle on hard compound but on softs. As you said, all your asumption is based on the Pirelli compounds, then maybe it's time you reassess?
They have won Monaco, Silverstone, Bahrain, apart from penalty have the pace in Hockenheim. Leading the Valencia race until mechanical failure, the pace showing in Hungaroring in the last 10 laps were outstanding.
Not going to get into the penalty at Hockenheim, but who won that race? A race that was run in dry conditions. Where was Fangio. The modern day Fangio in clearly a much faster car than the Ferrari could not over take even with DRS?
Bro, what pace are you talking about in the closing stages of Hungaroring? The pace with a very light car. That pace impressed you my friend? I'll attach their respective lap times sheets, Alonso, Raikkonen and Vettel .Alonso pitted on lap 43 and Raikkonen on lap 45 and went to the end of the race pacing themselves compared with Fangio's last stint of 11 laps with a fresh set of tires. That is the story of " oustanding pace "
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