Generator Engine Overhauling & ATS Dedicated Thread ( Advice , DIY, Repair ,Install)

[OmRON]

@babarhailian

Only adjust Tappets when engine is very cool, Almost not working for 4 -6 hours. If we adjust tappets when engine is warm is a big problem.

Check tappet plate, if it has some cuts replace it with good one, Normally exhaust push rod start to cut tappet plate after few hundred hours of running. This is main problem on 5K + Chinese generators.

In night time check spark plug wire , it is not leaking current to generator's metal parts, The one which came with generator normally start to tease. You can get spark plug black wire (which is connected to ignition coil) from car auto store, Use a thick sleeve. Hardly a 50 Rs fix.

You can dismantle Ignition coil and observer its metallic transformer like core, If it has rust on it, clean it with Kerosene oil or WD40. If still no success, Change the Ignition coil with a bigger one which can fit in your generator.

I have gone through similar problems a year ago. Now My generator obey first self every time since a year. It tease after every 3 months for tappet plate change only.

I hope that will help, but in either case tell me,

Thanks

OmRON

Hello Guys,

Another silent reader of the thread here. I bought a used generator 7.5K Chinese, a couple of months back, the first tweak I did to it was replacing its stock exhaust silencer with a FX silencer; the reason was obviously pathetically loud noise; it did reduced the volume by about 20%. Second thing was that I built up an auto kill switch and added a 150 amp relay to switch to grid upon availability, then, to that auto kill switch I added auto ignition and the ATS was complete. But the problem was that generated didn't use to start on first crank, some times it had to cranked 8 to 10 times; to resolve that issue I came across this thread and managed to read all the 144 pages by now in about two months. By modding my NG kit, changing the plug to Denso and adjusting it's gap to 0.4mm and adjusting tappets, generator was starting in first crank; but I did the mod a bit differently; my NG kit had a push button on the side facing generator, which is usually called GAS CHOKE, it's function, I noted, was that it opened up the plate stopping NG when generator is off and engine is not sucking NG. I unscrewed that push button from base and pushed and fixed it by sticking a needle to it and screwed it back to place but didn't fully screwed it, rather just gave it a couple of turns, now I use to screw it a turn or a half to increase idle gas amount and unscrew it to decrease idle gas amount. A flame of half an inch worked for me so I didn't do the petrol trick as done by Hanimughal and Moizirfan; I am satisfied with a tiny leak. I'll upload all the pics soon.

But right now I am badly in need of your help; Agoodfriend, Hanimughal, Moizirfan, Makniazi or anyone else who can help. I got the engine overhauled about 10 days ago because it was eating up huge amounts of oil, after that it worked fine for about 2 days after that the bad time started, Engine won't start... In my area power comes and goes about 8 to 10 times in 24 hours and the generator hardly start once a day; when it has to start, it starts on first crank; but when it doesn't start on first, it won't start in even 30 attempts, plus hundreds of rope attempts. What I have already done to get rid of this problem is that I have changed spark plug adapter, it worked fine for one day after that, I then changed spark plug, it again worked fine for one day, then I adjusted tappets, checked ht coil gap, disconnected oil sensor, removed my ATS, but no success; then I opened up it's head last night and checked valves for any leak; upon putting petrol in intake and exhaust ports, it was seeping from both valves (not dripping). I grinded both valves and there was not leak then. fixed the head back; carb was clean. then I fixed every thing back, used new set of gains. Generator started on first crank but when I killed it and started again, it didn't till now. I'll be back with pics that I have but at the moment I badly need help.

[babarhailian]

@babarhailian

Only adjust Tappets when engine is very cool, Almost not working for 4 -6 hours. If we adjust tappets when engine is warm is a big problem.

Check tappet plate, if it has some cuts replace it with good one, Normally exhaust push rod start to cut tappet plate after few hundred hours of running. This is main problem on 5K + Chinese generators.

In night time check spark plug wire , it is not leaking current to generator's metal parts, The one which came with generator normally start to tease. You can get spark plug black wire (which is connected to ignition coil) from car auto store, Use a thick sleeve. Hardly a 50 Rs fix.

You can dismantle Ignition coil and observer its metallic transformer like core, If it has rust on it, clean it with Kerosene oil or WD40. If still no success, Change the Ignition coil with a bigger one which can fit in your generator.

I have gone through similar problems a year ago. Now My generator obey first self every time since a year. It tease after every 3 months for tappet plate change only.

I hope that will help, but in either case tell me,

Thanks

OmRON

Thanks OmRON for your concern;I adjusted the tappets at morning engine was off whole night, moreover there is no problem with the plate because I changed it's head with everything in it about two weeks back; however last night I disassembled it's head and checked the valves by pouring Patrol in intake and exhaust ports, both the valves were seeping (not like dripping) so I grind the valves and they were then leak proof; today generator has successfully started most of times (Just one failed start) but the generator is not running very stably.

What I believe is that HT coil or wire is the culprit; I'll try cleaning the coil as you mentioned and if it won't work I'd try changing the coil and would let you know what happens.

below are the pics of the head I bought for 1900 with valves, springs, tappets, and everything in it.

[babarhailian]

FX silencer installed two months back.

[nabeelryk]

finally i received all these parts required to make PCB circuit board:)


a closer look with tickers


second part of closeup with tickers


finally all components are placed on bread board for BETA testing the circuit
this is the first bread board with ICs gates rsistance transistors capacitor led triggers volumes.


the second bread board contains 4 relays only.(lost picture will post it tomorrow along with video of working )

till now this contains
1. loose connection/spark protection
2. startup waiting timer(adujstable)
3. oil alert
4. Petrol solenoid timer(adjustable)
5. Trigger timer (adjustable)
6. self on timer (adjustable)
7. self off timer (adjustable)
8. self Tries (adjustable)
9. power-on timer (adjustable)
10. High-low voltage monitor
11. Extended first self
12. waiting timer on failure
13. Kill switch Timer (adjustable)
14. UPS mode
15. manual mode
16. auto mode
17. semi-auto mode
18. LED indicators

and will contain ( i am working on it)

1. gas leakage protection
2. petrol leakage protection
3. Rat repellent
4. remote controller (to rest , force shutdown, lockdown, start)
5. Gas level monitor + stabilizer (using heatgun air pump )

[MoizIrfan]

@MoizIrfan
what about these two points in the picture?they r not connected to anything but in another picture one point is going to +ve of battery and other is connected to 14 point relay.
they are circled in green

these points are to power the gas solenoid if you are making the system of directly starting on gas.
if u are starting on petrol & then converting to gas like I did, then u don't need these connections.

[OmRON]

@babarhailian
Check the spark plug cable , in night (dark) when engine is running. In 2 min , you can see sparks coming out and grounding in generator metal parts if its leak. This is something which no mechanic can care about, But its a big problem, It happened with me , I changed the whole cable with thick sleeve last summer and it going good till now.

This is the black wire which run from coil to spark plug cap, It must be of very good quality like car, plus you must use a very thick wire sleeve on it as generator run very very hot. If you change or tight ( make new connection on both ends) will help you out.

Last thing see that transformer like cores, if rusted you can clean them with Mitti Ka Teal or WD 40,

Always keep OIL sensor connected, If your engine is low on oil it will prematurely ruin your engine.

if your plug is neat, your tappets are rightly adjusted then I hope it will definitely solve your problem.

[OmRON]

@nabeelryk
Very nice project, It will take time but I hope its worth it. By the way you can have KIT ready made from hall road , those kits are cheap and have a proven record. Like digitech, Electronic 2K and rabbit.

That can even bring your cost down.

[OmRON]

@hanimughal

even made a small UPS with 12v 4amp battery ups, so no more restarting router its directly workin no 12v 4 amp battery via a circuit and charger.. as soon as electricity comes back it switches again on charging the small 12v battery

dear

[I] I love to see your router UPS , battery arrangement, circuit and charger. I want to make one for myself. If you post picture of all these things and give us hints. It will be a great favour.

First I thought to connect router with 12V battery and parallel attach a charger to direct charging the battery from 220V ac through a charger.

But you can help me out and it will also help lots on Pakwheels.

Thanks in Advance,

OmRON

[/I]

bro iam not really sure how ur honda lasted for only 1500 hours?
right now you know what the situation is...
if iam not wrong its bn 2.5years now and still going... not sure about exact hours but it has done more then 5000 hours...ALHAMDULILLAH..right now working for 10hours daily...
well the guy i called after opening its head cleaned it all .. it was all dirty inside .. so just for the sake of it i told my bro to change the oil after every max 60hours now..
he's bn too lazy and i asked when was the last time u changed the oil? he said last month .. it was running heavy.. after all the cleaning it is as smooth as new again...
and yea ..

about water cooled for sure.. we can use it non stop..i told you to get ur hands on honda 6500's engine if you can.. if not that one can for sure make it with some other engines.. what if we get our hands on some yamaha's liquid cool bike engine? or something similar? i guess it can be done.. with little modification..

about car engine's coupling with alternators .. they consume more gas?then our air cooled ones? how much more?
right now bill exceeding 7000rs.. besides that the advantage is they are liquid cool..no time limit.

exactly all goin with the same situation.. on every electricity failure my router use to restart... and after every few days.. i have to adjust the proxy and every settings again... using.. linksys router on ptcl...
even made a small UPS with 12v 4amp battery ups, so no more restarting router its directly workin no 12v 4 amp battery via a circuit and charger.. as soon as electricity comes back it switches again on charging the small 12v battery

iam not sure about honda seals any good authorized dealer..
as you know the situation rightnow.. after someone even generator parts will be available at Superstores . rightnow har banda he generator sahi karne wala bangia hai :S

[nabeelryk]

@nabeelryk
Very nice project, It will take time but I hope its worth it. By the way you can have KIT ready made from hall road , those kits are cheap and have a proven record. Like digitech, Electronic 2K and rabbit.

That can even bring your cost down.

if thats true i will buy them , but the problem is i am in my home town & i love to play with electronics so i made this one.
(one can probably say TIME PASS project )
at first i used atmeg micro controller to do the job, that was costly and only pros can build that so i just switched to ICs and ALL IS WELL
i have market this circuit , i got very good response publicly , believe me all those functions were never mine requirement they all are public demands
and #omron how much that KIT cost, any idea of cost and functions ?

BTW thanks for suggestion your words of wisdom well received.
i like cost-cutting so would be glad to buy if they are cheap in cost and pose same functions.

[nabeelryk]

@hanimughal

even made a small UPS with 12v 4amp battery ups, so no more restarting router its directly workin no 12v 4 amp battery via a circuit and charger.. as soon as electricity comes back it switches again on charging the small 12v battery

dear

[I] I love to see your router UPS , battery arrangement, circuit and charger. I want to make one for myself. If you post picture of all these things and give us hints. It will be a great favour.

First I thought to connect router with 12V battery and parallel attach a charger to direct charging the battery from 220V ac through a charger.

But you can help me out and it will also help lots on Pakwheels.

Thanks in Advance,

OmRON

[/I]

believe me i also did that for the same purpose but mine was so simple.
as we know the LAW of physics says
current flows from higher potential to lower potential so just bridge connect a battery with adapter wires like parallel circuit.
when mains is low the battery will be used and when mains (that is adaptor) current is high then battery the battery will start charging and your router will be on adapter, as adapter provides stable 12 or 12.5 voltage so the charging will be stopped and battery will not be over charged ( according to LAW because both potentials will be at same value so no flow).
here your battery is working like a capacitor
hope this one helps

[OmRON]

@nabeelryk
thanks for replying that quick,

These kits are also IC based as Micro-controllers need lot of low level programming skills, These are available from 1800 - 4800 Rs from hall road.

These have all those functions and feature you mention earlier, Now they have compensation for Petrol and Gas Solenoid operations. Plus they are all repairable, Sturdy design and have all the intelligence one can opt from a solid AMF panel. ATS is really cheap to build. Either by relays or Contactors.

How you will print your circuit on these plain copper PCBs. Just by marker or by inkjet. I love to do such stuff but testing is always a pain for me. But keep doing as you have all the right stuff infront you.

Pls also guide us the prices of these instruments and component.

Your work is really appreciated and very valuable for the forum and rest of the tech world.
Just keep us updated with picture breakthroughs.

God Bless YOU
OmRON

if thats true i will buy them , but the problem is i am in my home town & i love to play with electronics so i made this one.
(one can probably say TIME PASS project )
at first i used atmeg micro controller to do the job, that was costly and only pros can build that so i just switched to ICs and ALL IS WELL
i have market this circuit , i got very good response publicly , believe me all those functions were never mine requirement they all are public demands
and #omron how much that KIT cost, any idea of cost and functions ?

BTW thanks for suggestion your words of wisdom well received.
i like cost-cutting so would be glad to buy if they are cheap in cost and pose same functions.

[MoizIrfan]

@babarhailian

Is your problem of starting on petrol as well?

What is the status of your problem after replacing the HT coil.

[nabeelryk]

@nabeelryk
These kits are also IC based as Micro-controllers need lot of low level programming skills, These are available from 1800 - 4800 Rs from hall road.

How you will print your circuit on these plain copper PCBs. Just by marker or by inkjet. I love to do such stuff but testing is always a pain for me. But keep doing as you have all the right stuff infront you.

Pls also guide us the prices of these instruments and component.

OmRON

thats good to know that circuits are available in market with that cheap price one can easily afford

well i have other plan to do that using reflector paper that is easy way and just 5 to 6 mins and your PCB is ready.
where as laserjet photopaper tracer paper that cost u alot of time and one can get frustrated in ramzan doing that

just visit your nearest press market they will charge you 30 rupees for A4 size.

once i finalize this i will go and by the required stuff only and put a copy of bill over here for everyone , till now i have bought some extras so can not calculate actual value.
according to rough calculation only KIT (circuit board with 220v relay+base included) will be ready in 1800 to 2000 rupees.
other items
casing = 500
wires = 700
petrol solenoid = 500
hour meter = 450

[babarhailian]

@omron @moizirfan

I pulled out Flywheel cover and found this thing inside

There wasn't much rust on it, most of the stuff on it is dust, I think the itching thing was this HT coil wire which my mechanic managed to crush between engine block and air muffler when he reassembled the engine after overhauling

Since I was too much annoyed of this missing, blasting and starting problem, I bought this whole set of HT Coil, wire and plug adapter for Rs. 450; I couldn't get thicker wire and sleeve from auto parts shop as advised my OmRon because I live in Sargodha now a days and they observe holiday here on Friday.

Installed it and now generating is starting on first cranking; tested about 5 times and is running very stably. But now it doesn't pick up required RPM when 1.5 Ton AC turns on and lights start to flicker. I have tried adjusting NG bolt in kit and governer screw but it still doesn't produce required RPM; may be it's due to very low NG pressure.

Thanks a lot for your help OmRon and for your concern MoizIrfan!

[dr3vil]

I have loncin 2.5kva now i ran in to a prob as it would start but 0electricity changed the circuitnbreaker but no avail then i opened up the cover on dynamo found a nipple qas loose from some wire and bolts which hold wires were loose tight them and its good now working like new plus a lot of dust was in dynamo so cleaned it with a blower
I want info on some things
Can i run a half ton window ac on it as i see it running on my friends jd gen same power
Plus can you guys help me to how to build an ats for thia genn like step by step it will be very good help for me
Plus now a days if i wana shift to a big gen which one to buy in china made ones or is it better to build one using 660cc engine
Thanksnand plz write step by step ats how to do it thanks

Sent from my A10 using Tapatalk 2

[nabeelryk]

Can i run a half ton window ac on it as i see it running on my friends jd gen same power

Plus can you guys help me to how to build an ats for thia genn like step by step it will be very good help for me

for first scenario i would suggest you to note down the surge and working Amp of your AC then check the rating of your gene.

ATS is already explained step by step By Mr. agoodfriend so just browse through first 20 pages, better if you go through all 145 pages.
it took me almost 18 hours to study 130 pages
you will enjoy it.

[MoizIrfan]

I have loncin 2.5kva now i ran in to a prob as it would start but 0electricity changed the circuitnbreaker but no avail then i opened up the cover on dynamo found a nipple qas loose from some wire and bolts which hold wires were loose tight them and its good now working like new plus a lot of dust was in dynamo so cleaned it with a blower
I want info on some things
Can i run a half ton window ac on it as i see it running on my friends jd gen same power
Plus can you guys help me to how to build an ats for thia genn like step by step it will be very good help for me
Plus now a days if i wana shift to a big gen which one to buy in china made ones or is it better to build one using 660cc engine
Thanksnand plz write step by step ats how to do it thanks

Sent from my A10 using Tapatalk 2

these days Firman generators are good. have bought 2 for my friends both working trouble free. one is 1 year old and other one is almost 2 months old.

For ATS. basically two different ATS are built in this forum....
One starts on gas directly & other one starts on petrol and converts to gas....
If your generator easily starts on gas when you push the button behind the gaskit then u have both the options....
if u want petrol starting your choice...

first step. determine which setup u wanna built...

[dr3vil]

for first scenario i would suggest you to note down the surge and working Amp of your AC then check the rating of your gene.

ATS is already explained step by step By Mr. agoodfriend so just browse through first 20 pages, better if you go through all 145 pages.
it took me almost 18 hours to study 130 pages
you will enjoy it.

its 6.5 or 7amp not more and i am plaing to buy it as they consume less electricity and are small in size plus if they are running for 2 hours even in a big room the still its better a lot better then a room cooler
available in karkhano market Peshawar many ppl bought them and i have a split 1.5tons which won't even start on electricity needs big A$$ stablizer puls load sheeding in my area is immense light comes for 5 mins then again goes for 10 mins its like hell 24/7 same thing

[dr3vil]

these days Firman generators are good. have bought 2 for my friends both working trouble free. one is 1 year old and other one is almost 2 months old.

For ATS. basically two different ATS are built in this forum....
One starts on gas directly & other one starts on petrol and converts to gas....
If your generator easily starts on gas when you push the button behind the gaskit then u have both the options....
if u want petrol starting your choice...

first step. determine which setup u wanna built...

i have seen fireman build quality seems better then loncin or jd
now mine gen starts on first self on gas even in winters just 20 mins gas falls down esle its full on
i rarely run gen on petrol when ever tuning it like after some time i clean carb with carb cleaner filter cleaning etc
plus using Zic 10 40 A oil since day 1 in it so engine is healthy even after 3 years of use

[MoizIrfan]

just 20 mins gas falls down else its full on

didn't get it. please explain

Now you have to modify the gaskit such that your gen easily starts on first attempt without disturbing the carburetor choke or pushing the button behind the gaskit for few seconds

by the way m also using Loncin from 1st April 2011 with ATS and only on gas. running great now. it starts on petrol and converts to gas