Help! Black smoke coming from Cultus'06 Model and Absence of water vapours in exhaust

[winsomeharis86]

@winsomeharis86 :dear friend , i am also facing the little bit same issue.need your guidance .
when i cold start the car it gives black smoke ,not much but it could be felt.later on when it warms up ,there should be steam in this cold weather but still it is continuously giving black smoke which is noticeable if u examine closely.
water is droping from silencer but its not as much as it was before .now very little water and that too is totally black.
water droping from silencer on floor is totally black water.
what could be the problem?

@usman_haider84

Dear usman bhai,

            Probably your car is running rich on fuel. The carb or injector is throwing more fuel as compared to what is required for proper burning. Which car do you have? Before taking my car to mechanic, it was giving black smoke and on revving hard, used to give dense black smoke. So he cleaned  the spark plugs, serviced the whole carburetor, replaced butterfly in venturi with qabli one and inspected choke. All set. Car was still giving black smoke but pick was improved as a result of above process. Then it turns to be bad air-to-fuel ratio and ignition timing. So he adjusted the A/F mixture ratio and set the ignition timing back to 10 deg BTDC on petrol. On CNG, the timing is advanced in the range of 13-17 deg BTDC. Now car runs fine and black smoke vanished like Dirtu...:) 

        Also check air filter, choke and set your radiator fan to auto with thermostat valve installed during winter. This helps in optimizing your car engine temperature, which otherwise is not possible with direct fan.

[usman_haider84]

thermostat is installed wd auto fan.car is same as yours.cultus 2006.
and i am getting the average of 17km/litre on highway.so i dont think so that it is running rich on fuel.
so i think i should check only air to fuel mixture ratio?am i right?
and why it is throwing black water ?
before it was pure water with no contamination.[QUOTE=winsomeharis86;4194517]@usman_haider84

Dear usman bhai,

            Probably your car is running rich on fuel. The carb or injector is throwing more fuel as compared to standard one in the cylinder. Which car do you have? Before taking my car to mechanic, it was giving black smoke and on revving hard, used to give dense black smoke. So he cleaned  the spark plugs, serviced the whole carburetor, replaced butterfly in venturi with qabli one and inspected choke. All set. Car was still giving black smoke but pick was improved as a result of above process. Then it turns to be bad air-to-fuel ratio and ignition timing. So he adjusted the A/F mixture ratio and set the ignition timing back to 10 deg BTDC on petrol. On CNG, the timing is advanced in the range of 13-17 deg BTDC. Now car runs fine and black smoke vanished like Dirtu...:) 

        Also check air filter, choke and set your radiator fan to auto with thermostat valve installed during winter. This helps in optimizing your car engine temperature, which otherwise is not possible with direct fan.[/QUOTE]

[winsomeharis86]

thermostat is installed wd auto fan.car is same as yours.cultus 2006.
and i am getting the average of 17km/litre on highway.so i dont think so that it is running rich on fuel.
so i think i should check only air to fuel mixture ratio?am i right?
and why it is throwing black water ?
before it was pure water with no contamination.

Yeah check the A/F mixture ratio... And regarding black water i think your silencer or exhaust is filled with soot which combines with steam to give black water in condensed form....But again that presence of black soot is an indicative of unburnt fuel being thrown out from the cylinder....Also check your ignition timing....More advanced or more retarded timing also affects the combustion process leading to unburnt fuel thrown out....so check A/F ratio and ignition timing....

              Thats my two cents....Other experts are more welcome to give their feedback...

[usman_haider84]

ok friend
tomorrow i will check these two things .
[QUOTE=winsomeharis86;4195342]Yeah check the A/F mixture ratio... And regarding black water i think your silencer or exhaust is filled with soot which combines with steam to give black water in condensed form....But again that presence of black soot is an indicative of unburnt fuel being thrown out from the cylinder....Also check your ignition timing....More advanced or more retarded timing also affects the combustion process leading to unburnt fuel thrown out....so check A/F ratio and ignition timing....

              Thats my two cents....Other experts are more welcome to give their feedback...[/QUOTE]

[umarkhan1]

@winsomeharis86
how did you adjusted ignition timing??
from stap 00b or from distributor??
if you have done it from distributor,then your car wont run on CNG

[winsomeharis86]

@winsomeharis86
how did you adjusted ignition timing??
from stap 00b or from distributor??
if you have done it from distributor,then your car wont run on CNG

@umarkhan1

Dear umar bhai,

      I think he adjusted the timing with the help of distributor. But again CNG is not available here in fsd for 3 months. So i think distributor can be made to advanced when CNG become available.

         Btw what is the function of stap 00b?

[nm0587752]

dear i am from islamabad, i have also cultus 2003. yesterday i also met with the same problem of black smoke while going to office yesterday in the morning. my car was knokking continously even in proper speed, soon i feel smelling of burning oil as well i notice black smoke is outing from silencer. however its temperature gauge was not on danger point

[nm0587752]

dear frineds, i want to know, if radiator becomes empty (for any reason), in cultus non-efi, and car becomes hot.
1) will temeprature gauge not show hot level?
2) will it produce black smoke from silencer and plugs side?

[winsomeharis86]

dear i am from islamabad, i have also cultus 2003. yesterday i also met with the same problem of black smoke while going to office yesterday in the morning. my car was knokking continously even in proper speed, soon i feel smelling of burning oil as well i notice black smoke is outing from silencer. however its temperature gauge was not on danger point

Get your piston rings and ignition timing checked. Gauge shows engine temperature.

[argtr65]

dear frineds, i want to know, if radiator becomes empty (for any reason), in cultus non-efi, and car becomes hot.
1) will temeprature gauge not show hot level?
2) will it produce black smoke from silencer and plugs side?

1)If there is no water in cooling line,then temperature sensor will work properly,because it can not sense steam temperature.
2) Yes,an over heated enginge will produce knocking sound with balck smoke due to poor combustion.

[umarkhan1]

[QUOTE=winsomeharis86;4195988]@umarkhan1

Dear umar bhai,

      I think he adjusted the timing with the help of distributor. But again CNG is not available here in fsd for 3 months. So i think distributor can be made to advanced when CNG become available.

         Btw what is the function of stap 00b?[/QUOTE]

it is a device connected in series with the ignition coil.it is used to retared the ignition timing when the car is being used on petrol and brings back the timing adjusted on the distributor when the car is used on CNG.
it is only available in ff cng cultus

[shereabdullah]

it is a device connected in series with the ignition coil.it is used to retared the ignition timing when the car is being used on petrol and brings back the timing adjusted on the distributor when the car is used on CNG.
it is only available in ff cng cultus

is it same as advancer??? is it also present in non efi version???

[umarkhan1]

is it same as advancer??? is it also present in non efi version???

not advancer but retarder.efi one is fitted with stap 50b

[searchingeyez]

how to adjust bad air fuel ratio in efi car

[winsomeharis86]

how to adjust bad air fuel ratio in efi car

@searchingeyez

check air flow sensor or MAF as well as clean your throttle body

[xain10]

Aoa dear Pakwheelers and experts,

Well there's a strange problem in Cultus 2006 which i am stuck nowadays and need expert opinions. Mine Cultus 2006 model has completed 106000 kms on odometer and radiator fan is automatic with Thermostat valve installed. Few days back, when CNG supply was banned here in Faisalabad, we converted to Petrol (though, we used to drive a day or two in a week on petrol when CNG was available) and did the necessary adjustments required by the car to run on petrol such as setting RPM, removing the air blockage. Thereafter converting to petrol, the car started giving black smoke and fuel consumption was severely disturbed. Also there were not any water vapors or water coming out in such a cold weather.

Being a silent Pakwheeler, I visit this website regularly and have gained a lot in understanding car engine's basic functionality. So I searched forums here pertaining to black smoke problems and came with following suggestions posted on other threads by experts:

---> stuck choke plate
---> Proper mixing and adjustment of air/fuel ratio
---> Carburetor service
---> Butterfly problem in venturi
---> Petrol fuel filter cleaning
---> Plugs service
---> Float level height in carb can be high

So I went to the mechanic yesterday and told him the problem and he said carburetor requires service as it has never ever been serviced since we bought the car in 2006. So he serviced the carburetor and changed the butterfly in carburetor. He adjusted mixture ratio and also checked choke and plugs. All fine according to him. He started the car, rev up the car and black smoke problem was still there with no water or vapours coming out. I asked him whether the float level in the carburetor was according to the desire level and whether jets within carburetor need further cleaning. He said no problem in float height and jet servicing. So right now I am puzzled what could be the problem. The car runs perfect MashAllah. Pick is awesome after carburetor service. If everything is fine according to mechanic and according to my understanding, then why car is giving black smoke throughout driving even when the engine is warm and why water or vapours are not present in such cold weather when ideally it should give vapours out. Dear Pakwheeler and experts, I leave it to you. What could be the possible problem and what could be the remedies possible. Waiting for you replies.
Thanks.

Update (1-1-2014):

The real culprits were bad air-to-fuel ratio and ignition timing. So adjusted the A/F ratio to correct settings and ignition timing set to 10 deg BTDC on petrol. Before, it was 15 deg BTDC for CNG purpose. Moreover, following things were also done:

1. Carburetor service
2. Replacement of carb butterfly with Qabli one
3. Spark Plug service

Now the car runs fine MashAllah and giving water droplets as well. Thank you guys for your valuable inputs.

brother my cultus has similar problems and i will have to come to fsd for these repairs kindly recommend me a trustworthy mechanic of fsd /from whom you got your work done and estimated cost for carby repair/service

[winsomeharis86]

brother my cultus has similar problems and i will have to come to fsd for these repairs kindly recommend me a trustworthy mechanic of fsd /from whom you got your work done and estimated cost for carby repair/service

@xain10

brother these problems were not solved by a singe mechanic....i had to go to different mechanics......i have done carburetor service and timing adjustment from the mechanic on Sargodha Road....His name is Shafeeq and shop name is Diamond Autos....after carburetor service, the car was still giving black smoke though less......so I went to 2nd mechanic at Shell Petrol Pump Kotwali Road.....kashif is his name.....he correctly adjusted the timings, cleaned spark plug and adjusted air-fuel ratio and did other diagnosis.....and the problem was gone.

All this cost me around Rs. 4000 including labour. Have you previously done carburetor service for your car? Whats the total mileage of the car uptill now? Is your car equipped with thermostat and auto fan? If thermostat is not there, then start diagnosis by first installing back thermostat valve and set your fan to auto. This will help in achieving optimum engine temperature required for proper burning of fuel; which otherwise will remain un-burnt at cold temperature and come out as black residue.

One thing more, after diagnosing and solving my car problem from 2nd mechanic (kashif), he said that drive it with full rpm stretch so that any carbon residues can be drained out from exhaust pipe......if problem is still there then slide within carburetor need to be examined and checked......But my problem was solved at that stage so there was no need to examine the carburetor slide.......So i will suggest you that even after carburetor servicing and other adjustments, if your car is still giving black smoke do check slide within carburetor.

[xain10]

well my car has clocked 89000km so far its 06 ff cng cultus i have to add that my doesnot give black smoke it used to give in winter on cold start the main problem is shaky rpm on cng and the cars inability to keep on working on a fixed rpm or race i.e if i get my cars rpm and mixture set to 900 rpm on idle at auto choke it moves to 1500 and comes down to 1100 after autochoke disengages the rpm soon moves to 1600 though after fiddeling with the carby settings i have managed to bring it on 1100 rpms but no plesure in drive and car has started drinking fuel abnormally as i fiddled with the mixture nut and throttle pin without much knowledge but the point being even the mechanics of my area were unable to solve it the problem is far worse on cng the car has to be set on high rpm to run on cng 1500-1600 rpms even i have a problem of rpms on ac esp on cng the mechanic is unable to fix them to 1100-1300 rather the rpms shoot to 2000 rpms the engine takes lot of load and unbearable noise which i had never heard on my cultus ac secondly did you use STAP for timing settings?

[winsomeharis86]

well my car has clocked 89000km so far its 06 ff cng cultus i have to add that my doesnot give black smoke it used to give in winter on cold start the main problem is shaky rpm on cng and the cars inability to keep on working on a fixed rpm or race i.e if i get my cars rpm and mixture set to 900 rpm on idle at auto choke it moves to 1500 and comes down to 1100 after autochoke disengages the rpm soon moves to 1600 though after fiddeling with the carby settings i have managed to bring it on 1100 rpms but no plesure in drive and car has started drinking fuel abnormally as i fiddled with the mixture nut and throttle pin without much knowledge but the point being even the mechanics of my area were unable to solve it the problem is far worse on cng the car has to be set on high rpm to run on cng 1500-1600 rpms even i have a problem of rpms on ac esp on cng the mechanic is unable to fix them to 1100-1300 rather the rpms shoot to 2000 rpms the engine takes lot of load and unbearable noise which i had never heard on my cultus ac secondly did you use STAP for timing settings?

@xain10

Ok....you have fiddled with mixture settings which you should have not in the first place.....regarding shaky rpm,

1. Install Thermostat valve and set fan to auto

2. Clean spark plugs, air filter.

3. Check carb butterfly....is it in good shape or not? If not, then replace it with qabuli one.

4. Check ignition timings

5. Ask mechanic to adjust mixture in correct ratio. Adjust from CNG kit and carb.

6. Look for any vacuum leaks.....check vacuum pipes ..... is there enough vacuum present within engine to suck proper fuel when car is properly idling at around 1000 rpm. And check carb dashpot...known as vacuum dibi according to mechanic.......dashpot is like a vacuum port that maintains rpm or vacuum something like this when you remove your foot from the race paddle after reving it.

7. High RPM at AC and unbearable noise on AC could be due to improper ISC (Idle solenoid control) adjustment which is located at right side of carb beneath the air filter box with you looking at engine bay. Also check your compressor as well.

8. If above solutions not working, I will suggest you a complete carb overhaul.

    I use distributor for timing settings, not STAP.  I have heard (not confirmed though) that there is no need to adjust timing from STAP because it performs the functions automatically as it is connected in series. But for that you need to set the distributor to advanced settings for CNG. When converted to petrol, the STAP automatically retards the timing. If your car is running fine on fuel, then do not fiddle with any settings.

[pwuser150763885295]

purchased cultus 2005 vxr. Due weak pressure Changed gasket after mechanic advise. Then faced smoke issue So i changed Ring. Smoke issue resolved but only for a month. Little white smoke again... Now i have been advised for SEAFOAM for cleaning. Please advise what to do...