How about Tata, Mahindra, Bajaj, TVS in Pakistan?

[DesiBoy]

Just have a look how much the Indian made bike the Bajaj Pulsar is popular in foreign countries.

Here are pics of Bike Clubs dedicated to the Bajaj Pulsar in Indonesia where it is sold.

[tiger727272]

Pakistan and Indian have a list of products they are both are allowed to trade with each other and cars are not on that list, until both the governments decide otherwise the situation will not change.

However this is a different point than companies not wanting to sell their products in each others markets, in my opinion Pakistan will have much better opportunites in the Indian market because of the sheer size of the market, however the vehicles are not of the same quality so are highly unlikely to be purchased. However Indian companies could also make a killing in Pakistan as they produce cars for similiar markets and at a much cheaper price imagine an Indian rolla for less than 10lacks new.

[GamezBond]

@DesiBoy
"
Its just that the Indian public do not buy chinese cars/bikes."

Yup, and thats whats mentioned above about the indian products too by imtiaz786 and mafzaltareen above.

As far as the two questions in the thread:
Has the time now come for these companies to enter Pakistan with its products?
If and only IF the indian govt is ready to accept bilateral and equal deals.

Will the Pakistani consumer accept these Indian automobiles?
Already answered by imtiaz786 and mafzaltareen above and I agree 100% too.

Markets are already flooded with Chinese products, we cant have them flooded with chinese AND indian products now can we :d but it would be good for both countries to allow equal bilateral trade though, so both can sell their products.

[DesiBoy]

Indians do not buy Chinese cars and bikes because of its cheap built quality and not out of any Hatred.

The Images of the Bajaj Pulsar Clubs formed by Satisfied Indonesian owners make me sure that Pakistanis will love it too.

[GamezBond]

@tiger727272
hmm is that 10 lakh indian rs for a rolla? :o

[hooker100]

Rather than barring Indian products from entering, Pakistan should let them enter and let the consumers do the talking! Remember, whether their products sell or not, large amounts would be invested in Pakistan and that's for Pakistan to gain and India to lose if the products don't sell.

Regarding Chinese autos, I have read that Chinese bikes were sold in India and sales were brisk initially. But it eventually died down due to quality issues. Indians didn't reject Chinese bikes because Chinese are claiming Tawang. Everyone knows Chinese autos have quality issues.

India for example freely allows tyre imports from China although it is gobling up market domination of local manufacturers like Apollo, MRF, Ceat and JK. However they are fighting back by pricing their goods more competitively (Indians, correct me if I'm wrong).

I travel very frequently to SEA (namely Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand and Singapore). Let me tell you; although Chinese cars (Chery) are available in Malaysia for the past 3 years, I'm yet to see any on the roads. And that despite the fact that 30% of Malaysia are native Chinese! You can even find more M&M Scorpios and Tata Telcolines in Malaysia. I can provide pictures if you wish. If there are any Malaysian PWers here, pls verify what I say with them! Same in Indonesia, Chinese bikes available but demand is low due to quality issues again. Bajaj and TVS doing better.

[GamezBond]

@hooker100
Have you ever travelled to China though?? and if you have, have you ever seen an indian vehicle on the road at all?

I do travel there, and all I see is locally produced cars, and the quality is absolutely superb.

It is true that the quality in the begining wasnt great (not much different from any other case including india) but they have come a loooong way since then. Besides, if india wants quality, then indians have to pay for the quality too, if they are going to buy the cheapest products available, then they will get the cheapest quality unfortunately. It is not a one way street, you get what you pay for.

[haidi123]

i wanna buy the talking indian washing machine. Hear she got sultry voice.

[GamezBond]

@Haidi123
LOL ..................
(Y)(Y)(Y)
:d:d:d:d

[DesiBoy]

One Chinese bike maker is trying to sell a 100 cc motorcycle in India which costs around 20,000-25,000.
100 cc bikes from Hero Honda, Bajaj, TVS starts at 35,000-40,000

This bike maker is called as Global Auto and is a JV with an Indian company and has its plant in Kolkata.

But the quality of this bike is so bad that I haven't seen even a single one here in New Delhi despite its low price tag.

The Indian consumer is very tough to please. He is a total Value for Money guy. But that does not mean that he is ready to pick up any cheap quality stuff because of its low price. He will evaluate the quality to price equation and only then will decide what to buy.

It is because of this type of consumer that Indian Auto Companies have had to produce bikes/cars of decent quality. Those which did not do so had to shut down their business.

[DesiBoy]

Bajaj Pulsar Clubs in Colombia!!

[crazy_rider]

awesome idea
ilike indian bikes

this is the only way to get rid from profiteers in pk
in pk car n bikes r manufactured only 4 trade not to ease us

[GamezBond]

I copy these very wise words from another member datzburier from a similar thread (I hope datzburier doesnt mind me copying these here):

Business relationships are good ONLY when you have TWO way trade and equal Leverage. If we just get ONE way investment from India into Pakistan, this will give India an Upper Hand, and that means they can control the people in the Pakistani government by buying them off.

The same is true the other way around, if only Pakstani Companies go in India, they would also get Political Inflence in India by buying people off, that is one reason why Pakistani investments in India seems to have been frozen.

That is also the reason why some in India are also protesting against US's companies investing in India's Nuclear related Civilian companies, that way US will have a considerable leverage and controlling influence over India's nuclear program.

Everything has a logical explaination. We just need to be smart about what we allow in our country. If they also allow Pakistanis and Pakistani companies into India, then and only then we should give some access to India investors and Companies into Pakistan. The whole world works on these solid fundamental principals and what benefits there self interests.

[DesiBoy]

India is now open to Nuclear Trade with Not only US but other countries as well.. the Indian democracy has given the green signal and so has the international NSG (Nuclear Suppliers Group). Its Full and Final Now.

India has benefited immensely over the last 15 years due to opening up its economy to foreign trade. Even Pakistan would benefit from doing the same.

its a time of Globalization now.

[GamezBond]

@DesiBoy
So that means india will immensely benefit from imports from Pakistan too.

[DesiBoy]

Why not? That's what Bilateral trade is all about right?

[GamezBond]

yes.
Good, so we all agree that it should be done (only) on bilateral trade basis, so both countries can benefit (ofcourse while looking after their own economies too).

[DesiBoy]

What else are we expecting?
Trade will definitely be bilateral.

When India opened up its economy to other countries -mainly USA, USA got a huge market in India to sell its products and on the other hand lakhs of Indian youth got employed in the hi-tech sector of American companies.

Slowly India's own hi-tech companies emerged and now due to this process, a strong middle class segment has emerged in India.

Similarly the open economy made it easier for Foreign companies to produce and sell its cars and bikes in India. In return in order to stay competitive, Indian Car/Bike makers had to make sure that they remain competitive by improving quality and making cars/bikes which can complete with the international established brands.

And now due to this healthy competition, a few companies like Tata and Bajaj have emerged as big players not just domestically but have serious international ambitions as well.

Just goes to show what an Open Mind and Open Economy can do to a nation's fortunes.

[Nannu]

I have only seen Shaan masaka and pickles in India. And to be honest their quality is much better than Indian pickles. Our household loves them and we pick them up whenever available in the supermarket. Likewise there is an excellent Karachi halwa. Its laden in generous quantity of ghee but otherwise heavenly.

India has been importing cement from pak. I think 3 or 4 companies applied and met the ISI specifications. But I believe it’s a temp phenomenon. The need for pak cement came up due to sudden spurt in demand. Now the demand is slowing down and combined with expansion in Indian cement production capacity may lead to fall in Pakistani cement import.

Then we have the most visible pak import that is musicians and performing artists. Pakistani rock bands are dime a dozen in India. Even small towns and their college festivals feature some pak rock band. Most shopping mall lobbies will have a pak band performing. I like their attitude and talent. They so quickly acquire a gang of hot groupies too !

I had once met the head of millat tractor who was visiting India to deliver the keynote address for Indian Foundarymen association. He is a certified authority in automotive castings. His company was trying to export casting to Mahindra tractors for its Indian and global plants. This was in 2005. I don’t know how it went but understand they made a very competitive bid. Between 2005 to 2007 there was a huge capacity constrain in Indian auto part supplier industry. This was the best window of opportunity to tap into Indian supply chain. I think only two companies Millat and Shahid mannan forging made any worthwhile attempt to do that.

Of all the replies in this thread tiger727272 has provided the best answer. As long as automobiles are in restricted list its fruitless to talk about letting Tata or Mahindra sell in pk. And he is also right on the corolla cost. CIF Pakistan cost of Indian corolla will be about 40% less than Indian list price. In India taxes make up about 40% of the total cost. For export this is reduced to only about 10%. And they also exempt from that stupid gas guzzler tax that was imposed on cars with higher than 1600cc capacity few months ago.

All in all I am in favour of pruning the negative list and letting the buyer in each country decide what is best for them.

[GamezBond]

"What else are we expecting?"
Well, I cant see the word "bilateral" used by you above, so you should tell us exactly what you were expecting while we were continously talking about bilateral trade???