Idling the Cars

[mianaasim]

Reference: Natural Resources Government of Canada (Transportation Initiatives)

Contrary to popular belief, excessive idling is not an effective way to warm up your vehicle, even in cold weather. The best way to warm it up is to drive it.

What's often forgotten is that idling warms only the engine – not the wheel bearings, steering, suspension, transmission and tires. These parts also need to be warmed up, and the only way to do that is to drive the vehicle. Until the engine temperature begins to rise, it's a good idea to avoid high speeds and rapid acceleration.

Fuel combustion is also less efficient in a cold engine, and the air-fuel mixture is richer - in other words, there is more fuel and less air in the mixture. (The mixture of fuel vapour and air must be in proper proportion for efficient combustion.) The combined effect is a sharp increase in GHG and CAC emissions. On top of everything else, the catalytic converter doesn't work efficiently when it is cold. Therefore it is important to drive the vehicle so that it reaches its proper operating temperature as soon as possible in order to maximize fuel efficiency and reduce emissions.

[GoodMan7]

Here is my point brother:

Reference: Chincago Tribune 21-10-2013 Report by Jenny King

Many drivers use or are tempted by remote start devices that will allow the car to warm oil, clear windows and provide a comfy interior temperature. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency suggests that whether via remote or actually climbing in and starting the engine yourself, letting a car idle to warm up hurts fuel economy.

“The EPA is correct,” says Tom Anderson, General Motors' global chief engineer for Ecotec engines. “The vehicle's fuel economy while idling is 0 mpg. It is better to accumulate miles while warming up the vehicle to get some positive fuel economy.”

Another victim of idling is air quality. “Emissions such as hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxides and carbon dioxide are typically measured in grams per mile, so it is better to be accumulating miles, that is, doing useful work, while generating any level of emissions, rather than idling at a standstill.” Anderson says.

When the vehicle is driven cold, the more heavily loaded engine accelerates the warmup process and gets the engine to operate with lower emissions more quickly.

In my 2nd or 3rd post in this thread, I've already mentioned that I've gone through loads of such stuff on wiki & other sites and yes they write a lot about such things about environment friendliness, etc. etc.
I drive daily ~45 KM from home/office & back. 2 min. I do idling in morning and same in evening. Totally 4 min.
Now it takes 50 min. to 1 hour for me to drive each side.
So, compare 4 minute idling on 120 min. drive and one can firmly say that this 2 min. idling is not going to hurt our ozone.

[mianaasim]

In my 2nd or 3rd post in this thread, I've already mentioned that I've gone through loads of such stuff on wiki & other sites and yes they write a lot about such things about environment friendliness, etc. etc.
I drive daily ~45 KM from home/office & back. 2 min. I do idling in morning and same in evening. Totally 4 min.
Now it takes 50 min. to 1 hour for me to drive each side.
So, compare 4 minute idling on 120 min. drive and one can firmly say that this 2 min. idling is not going to hurt our ozone.

Pakistan is a free country and you are a free citizen of Pakistan. Its your free will to do whatever you want to do.

My only point is that with modern day technology vehicles and lubricants. One basically doesn't need to IDLE the engine before driving. I only wanted to address the technicality behind the logic of idling.

[mianaasim]

In modern day EFi, VVTI, IVTEC (ECU Controlled) vehicles, when you cold ignite the car without applying foot to paddle, it starts with slightly higher RPMs, for instance if your car's idling rpm is 650/750, it will start and maintain initial rpm of 1200-1300 and then it will start to drop. This functionality not only controls your idling requirement but also accelerates lubrication of parts and helps protect cold start friction. Once your car's rpms drop to normal idling rpm i.e 650-750, you are ready to go which usually requires not more then 10-15 seconds.

NO NEED TO KEEP Staring at the temperature gauge to reach halfway before putting first gear.

[Xulfiqar]

Sir,
Pardon me for my poor English because of which I cannot put the righteous emotions or can express explicitly through words.
Ok let me explain.
Can you press the cloths right after turning on the Iron? No. because iron need some time to warm up and then you scroll it on the cloths to press them. Right? I think it?s the most simplest example to give.

MAN....

you just wrote a NICE JOKE. Its impossible to compare an iron to an engine. Why dont you do one thing for yourself, remove the tappet cover from your car's engine and start it dead cold - time it with a stop watch and tell us how quickly the oil was flooding your engine bay.

[GoodMan7]

MAN....

you just wrote a NICE JOKE. Its impossible to compare an iron to an engine. Why dont you do one thing for yourself, remove the tappet cover from your car's engine and start it dead cold - time it with a stop watch and tell us how quickly the oil was flooding your engine bay.

so that mean only oil circulation in engine is important rather than idling and let engine to reach its proper temperature before drive?

[GoodMan7]

In modern day EFi, VVTI, IVTEC (ECU Controlled) vehicles, when you cold ignite the car without applying foot to paddle, it starts with slightly higher RPMs, for instance if your car's idling rpm is 650/750, it will start and maintain initial rpm of 1200-1300 and then it will start to drop. This functionality not only controls your idling requirement but also accelerates lubrication of parts and helps protect cold start friction. Once your car's rpms drop to normal idling rpm i.e 650-750, you are ready to go which usually requires not more then 10-15 seconds.

NO NEED TO KEEP Staring at the temperature gauge to reach halfway before putting first gear.

I've a little question sir.
If you keep idling at signals specially in summer, then does the "auto fan" of your car turns on? It’s the same fan that runs directly when we turn on the A/C.
If the answer is yes, then could you explain why it turns on?

[GoodMan7]

In modern day EFi, VVTI, IVTEC (ECU Controlled) vehicles, when you cold ignite the car without applying foot to paddle, it starts with slightly higher RPMs, for instance if your car's idling rpm is 650/750, it will start and maintain initial rpm of 1200-1300 and then it will start to drop. This functionality not only controls your idling requirement but also accelerates lubrication of parts and helps protect cold start friction. Once your car's rpms drop to normal idling rpm i.e 650-750, you are ready to go which usually requires not more then 10-15 seconds.

NO NEED TO KEEP Staring at the temperature gauge to reach halfway before putting first gear.

On more thing Sir. Plz observe it even tomorrow morning in your car especially when you will start it first.
Am also not sure either I would able to have it explain in English exactly upto the point or not. But am gonna try.

As, upon starting the engine automatically its RPM are little higher (1.2 ~ 1.3K) but it drop to 650/750 within a minute when we are not driving it.
Now, here is my observation.

Upon cold start, when RPMs drop to 650/750 (hopefully less than a minute), then shift the first gear and drive car just 1~2 meter and stop. It will immediately set the rpms again at 1.2~1.3k. Because engine has not got its optimum working temperature.
But if you let the car idle for couple of minutes till its cold light lamp is turns off, then drive it, and rpms will not shoot to 1.2~1.3 again. Because engine has already got the optimum temperature by idling and system doesn't feel to increase its rpm again.

I insist to observe it prior to reply this post. Tks.

[xrahat2011]

Pae, me to apni mehran ko hamesha sy petrol py chala raha hu, subha 6bjay uth k, seedha gari me betha, sulf mara voh b gear k sath and sath he clutch chor k gari chalana shuru. I don't care. Pura rasta den tappo tapp full race dubbaa k chalao. Lol! :'D

[GoodMan7]

Pae, me to apni mehran ko hamesha sy petrol py chala raha hu, subha 6bjay uth k, seedha gari me betha, sulf mara voh b gear k sath and sath he clutch chor k gari chalana shuru. I don't care. Pura rasta den tappo tapp full race dubbaa k chalao. Lol! :'D

nothing special sir. We all have different intelligence & wisdom to drive cars.

[usman_arooq2]

he gentleman wrote that diesel cars dont need to idle. And on that point other gentleman asked "are you sure".
Its my comprehension after reading above posts.
By the way, diesel cars NEED MORE idling for better functionalities. And especially in pak. where fuel quality is surprizingly substandard.

Xulfiqar might be able to explain more about this but to the extent of my knowledge, idling is hard on diesel engines and valve seals are affected by long idling. so it's better to drive the engine gently till it reaches the normal operating temp.

[xrahat2011]

nothing special sir. We all have different intelligence & wisdom to drive cars.

Roger that.. Bilkul saee kaha!

[Xulfiqar]

so that mean only oil circulation in engine is important rather than idling and let engine to reach its proper temperature before drive?

The engine will warm up regardless, the thermostat will make sure the temperature is reached quickly and maintained, its a useless technique to warm up in modern engines unless you are starting it in -20C and need to warm up the engine for cabin heat

[vagabondpiper]

Once your car's rpms drop to normal idling rpm i.e 650-750, you are ready to go which usually requires not more then 10-15 seconds.

NO NEED TO KEEP Staring at the temperature gauge to reach halfway before putting first gear.

10-15 seconds ?
My car needs an idle running of almost 7-10 minutes in order to acheive idle rpm after a cold start .Temp guage is almost 30 % by that time .
All factory settings.

[mianaasim]

10-15 seconds ?
My car needs an idle running of almost 7-10 minutes in order to acheive idle rpm after a cold start .Temp guage is almost 30 % by that time .
All factory settings.

I am not sure but it may vary vehicle to vehicle and it may also be dependent on whether temperature. But as @xulfiqar said "its a useless technique to warm up in modern engines unless you are starting it in -20C"

[GoodMan7]

I am not sure but it may vary vehicle to vehicle and it may also be dependent on whether temperature. But as @xulfiqar said "its a useless technique to warm up in modern engines unless you are starting it in -20C"

sir g, well I don't think we are having such modern engines already here in Pak. Because even 2nd hand JDMs are far better than New GLI, City, etc. w.r.t. engine technologies.
Also, it was zulfiqar who said in my other thread "I bet you never noticed it" that most of the engines in Pak. are based on old technologies and hence SG, SH oils are ok to be use. Etc.
Now for me, both of these statements are confusing.

[Xulfiqar]

Old engines requiring this were built in the 1920s to about the 1950s.

[qasimmalik]

i start my car, wait for rpm needle to settle and wait for max 10 secs
mean while i look around for any overlooked obstacle or nearby parked vehicles

[warewolf1]

Bhai I've read my Honda civic Vti 2001 prosmatec manual book. It says the car needs 60 seconds of idling even if its freezing outside... after that u can drive slowly to bring engine to optimal temperature. I can't recall properly if it was 30 seconds or 60 seconds so I've written 60 seconds to be on the safe side. Let me find out the manual book and it will put an end to this debate!

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2

[warewolf1]

There you go.....