Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[nasirjavaid]

the homage ups which i have model mentioned earlier have only one setting button on the back which states settings narrow and wide. i have no idea where it should be currently it is on narrow as it came from the retailer. please guide me on that.

As per Homage manual the narrow/wide is the input line sensitivity control. In narrow mode the UPS operates within 170-280 VAC input with 230 VAC output (transfer time 15ms). In wide mode it operates within 90-280 VAC input with 230 VAC output (transfer time 48ms). This setting is designed to accommodate voltage fluctuation on the input line. Wide is recommended for Pakistan because we have the occasional voltage fluctuation due to unreliable service.

[whiteangel]

If we buy a pure sine wave ups, will it have all these problems of inductive and resistive loads?

A pure sine wave UPS outputs power that is similar to the electricity you get from Wapda. It is suitable for all appliances.

[unstopabl3]

@talhawaleed , @ishtiaq778

Kindly reply to my queries soon as I need to get it fixed today. Thanks

[talhawaleed]

I checked the battery cells gravity and all was in the Good zone on the hydrometer, so I think it's the UPS issue.
Will get it checked in the morning, but could you please advice the recommended parameters for my batteries???

Currently I had the cutoff set at 28.30V, will there be any advantage other than saving time if I get it set to 28.10 or 28V??? This won't undercharge the batteries would it???

And what should be the low voltage cutoff during backup for both batteries??? Is it fine if I set it to 21V??? Would this mess up the 220V discharge cutoff voltage or are these two independent settings??

Thanks

Cut of voltage at which charging stops can be adjusted anywhere between 28 to 28.8 Volts. 28.8 Volts is the limit, sometimes little below this is ok, if ever your ups runs out of calibration, then it won’t harm you.

Low cut of Voltage can be adjusted to 20.6 Volts, 21Volts is also ok but you can re-calibrate it, if you like.

Everything is ok, its just you need to verify the charging rate as that can only be a reason that its taking more time to charge. If it has trickle charging like at 1 amperes once it reaches 28Volts, then you are good and no need to worry about even if taking more time as batteries are already ready for next cycle of lead shedding.

If it’s a local UPS, then adjust the output voltage under backup mode once batteries are in fully charged state and put into backup to 250 to 255Volts, so that once voltage on battery terminals will reach 10.3 or 20.6Volts then output voltage should be somewhere above or near 225Volts. This is because once batteries discharge then output voltage decreases on these local ups.

[siraj_7]

Thanks bro, also let me know about:

I am planning to buy a pure sign wave UPS, can you tell me a cheap way to charge the batter from solar setup with the help of a mppt charger and panels. Is it possible to completely stop the UPS from charging batter and act as an inverter only?

Saw couple of Chinese ups available in the market who are pure signwave.

A pure sine wave UPS outputs power that is similar to the electricity you get from Wapda. It is suitable for all appliances.

[whiteangel]

Thanks bro, also let me know about:

I am planning to buy a pure sign wave UPS, can you tell me a cheap way to charge the batter from solar setup with the help of a mppt charger and panels. Is it possible to completely stop the UPS from charging batter and act as an inverter only?

Saw couple of Chinese ups available in the market who are pure signwave.

You need a solar panel and a charge controller. Connect solar panel to charge controller and connect charge controller to the battery. Keep the UPS connected to the battery as well. Both are going to charge the battery simultaneously. Since both are automatic chargers, they will not overcharge the battery.

[nfsmostwanted]

@talhawaleed thank you for your reply

I just checked the battery voltage when the ups was charging it

They were exact 13.48 volts
Are these voltage fine?

Sent from my iPhone using PW Forums

[Ishtiaq778]

I checked the battery cells gravity and all was in the Good zone on the hydrometer, so I think it's the UPS issue.
Will get it checked in the morning, but could you please advice the recommended parameters for my batteries???

Currently I had the cutoff set at 28.30V, will there be any advantage other than saving time if I get it set to 28.10 or 28V??? This won't undercharge the batteries would it???

And what should be the low voltage cutoff during backup for both batteries??? Is it fine if I set it to 21V??? Would this mess up the 220V discharge cutoff voltage or are these two independent settings??

Thanks

kindly upload pic of your ups kit

[siraj_7]

My aim is to have no charging current coming from KESC so to finish the cost of charging batteries on UPS and only charge during the night. Its not possible to turn off the UPS charger during the day and automatically turn it on at night?

You need a solar panel and a charge controller. Connect solar panel to charge controller and connect charge controller to the battery. Keep the UPS connected to the battery as well. Both are going to charge the battery simultaneously. Since both are automatic chargers, they will not overcharge the battery.

[unstopabl3]

Cut of voltage at which charging stops can be adjusted anywhere between 28 to 28.8 Volts. 28.8 Volts is the limit, sometimes little below this is ok, if ever your ups runs out of calibration, then it won?t harm you.

Low cut of Voltage can be adjusted to 20.6 Volts, 21Volts is also ok but you can re-calibrate it, if you like.

Everything is ok, its just you need to verify the charging rate as that can only be a reason that its taking more time to charge. If it has trickle charging like at 1 amperes once it reaches 28Volts, then you are good and no need to worry about even if taking more time as batteries are already ready for next cycle of lead shedding.

If it?s a local UPS, then adjust the output voltage under backup mode once batteries are in fully charged state and put into backup to 250 to 255Volts, so that once voltage on battery terminals will reach 10.3 or 20.6Volts then output voltage should be somewhere above or near 225Volts. This is because once batteries discharge then output voltage decreases on these local ups.

Thanks for the reply, you didn't address my main issue bro:

""""""""

Purchased two Phoenix UGS 175 last week for my 1000W 24V UPS as per your recommendation and got them filled with Pyro Electrolyte.

Everything was working fine until today when I saw the UPS kept charging the batteries since 3 hours and not cutting off the charging. I checked with the multimeter and voltage for both batteries was 26.60V, checked after an hour voltage was 27.80V, checked after half an hour voltage was 14.10, stood there to check if it goes up but it didn't it would drop to 14.01 , 14.04, 14.06 then reach 14.10 and then same drop again. Checked after another half an hour voltage was now 14.36V and UPS was still charging even though I had previously configured the cutoff at 14.30V. Then after a few minutes voltage dropped below 14.30 and the charging continued and it never got cutoff and then the light went out and I couldn't confirm the cutoff.

Any idea what has suddenly happened to cause this??? I did notice that wapda voltages were around 210V on the UPS meter and not 220V, could this be the reason for this weird charging???

""""

Today when batteries were fully charged I turned them on backup mode for hardly 30 seconds and the voltage dropped down to 25V in a matter of seconds, then when I put the charging mode back on, even after 2 hour of charging the voltage was 26.80V only meaning either the batteries are being charged very slowly because UPS used to completely charge these same batteries after 1h 20mins, but since a couple of days it keeps charging even after 2.5 hours and still not fully charged.

Do you think faulty batteries (even though the gravity is 1250 and they are not hot at all and give proper backup on loadshedding) or do you think faulty UPS or do you think the UPS needs to be adjusted??? Or do you think this is due to Wapda not giving full 220V???

Thanks

[unstopabl3]

kindly upload pic of your ups kit

I'll get the pics in a bit bro but can you tell me a few things please.

1 When checking the charging rate of UPS, amp meter should be set to DC or AC setting???

2 When checking the charging rate of UPS, the amp meter clamp should be connected to the black wire connected both the terminals together or the red wire connected at positive terminal??? I'm asking because if I connect it to red wire I get higher reading and when connected to black wire between the two terminals I get a bit lower reading, and if I move around the clamp meter on this wire again the reading fluctuates, so what's going on????

[unstopabl3]

If it?s a local UPS, then adjust the output voltage under backup mode once batteries are in fully charged state and put into backup to 250 to 255Volts, so that once voltage on battery terminals will reach 10.3 or 20.6Volts then output voltage should be somewhere above or near 225Volts. This is because once batteries discharge then output voltage decreases on these local ups.

Will this automatically happen/adjust if I set the output voltage to 260V on backup mode??? Or are these two different settings/variables???

[whiteangel]

My aim is to have no charging current coming from KESC so to finish the cost of charging batteries on UPS and only charge during the night. Its not possible to turn off the UPS charger during the day and automatically turn it on at night?

Someone asked a similar question a while back. I understand what you are trying to do, but that requires a hybrid inverter. A UPS or regular inverter is not designed to work in this way. It might be possible to design a circuit to do this task, but its going to be complicated.

The best solution (if your UPS supports it) is to turn down the charging current of the UPS to the lowest setting and let the solar panel do bulk of the charging.

[talhawaleed]

Thanks for the reply, you didn't address my main issue bro:

""""""""

Purchased two Phoenix UGS 175 last week for my 1000W 24V UPS as per your recommendation and got them filled with Pyro Electrolyte.

Everything was working fine until today when I saw the UPS kept charging the batteries since 3 hours and not cutting off the charging. I checked with the multimeter and voltage for both batteries was 26.60V, checked after an hour voltage was 27.80V, checked after half an hour voltage was 14.10, stood there to check if it goes up but it didn't it would drop to 14.01 , 14.04, 14.06 then reach 14.10 and then same drop again. Checked after another half an hour voltage was now 14.36V and UPS was still charging even though I had previously configured the cutoff at 14.30V. Then after a few minutes voltage dropped below 14.30 and the charging continued and it never got cutoff and then the light went out and I couldn't confirm the cutoff.

Any idea what has suddenly happened to cause this??? I did notice that wapda voltages were around 210V on the UPS meter and not 220V, could this be the reason for this weird charging???

""""

Today when batteries were fully charged I turned them on backup mode for hardly 30 seconds and the voltage dropped down to 25V in a matter of seconds, then when I put the charging mode back on, even after 2 hour of charging the voltage was 26.80V only meaning either the batteries are being charged very slowly because UPS used to completely charge these same batteries after 1h 20mins, but since a couple of days it keeps charging even after 2.5 hours and still not fully charged.

Do you think faulty batteries (even though the gravity is 1250 and they are not hot at all and give proper backup on loadshedding) or do you think faulty UPS or do you think the UPS needs to be adjusted??? Or do you think this is due to Wapda not giving full 220V???

Thanks

Charging rate maybe very slow, reason you are experiencing this is because your ups trickle charges the battery which means that it charges the battery in three different stages at three different rates. Your batteries has no issue, its perfectly normal, as I said that you need an amp-meter to measure the charging rate.

It is normal for the voltage on battery terminal to drop to 25 Volts or 24 volts after charging stops or cutoff voltage if set to 28.8 Volts is achieved, soon charging will stop, this will drop.

Now, in first stage your ups chargers the battery with maybe 8 amperes maybe till 26.06 Volts, then once this voltage is achieved or registered by ups then charging rate slows down to maybe 5 amperes or 4 amperes and then correspondingly to 1 amperes in end. If for example charging rate for 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] stage changes at 27 Volts then you will experience the drop in voltage terminals to 26.6volts so just wanted to say this is normal as charging has also slowed down and in long term it is good for batteries provided ups is able to charge the battery in required time and if not, then this is what you have to see and adjust the charging rate by using on board variables on ups.

Get hold of amp-meter, which tells you about the charging rate. First find out about the charging rate at each stage then change it using on board variable such that at any stage it should not cross the maximum allowable charging rate (13 amperes)

Example: ugs 175 has an amp-hr rating of 130 according to their site, maximum allowable charging rate for this is 13 amperes in start, change the charging rate to 10 or 11 amperes for first step and correspondingly it will also be change for second and third stage.

Charging at 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] and 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] stage will be slower than the first stage. You don’t have to increase it to its maximum allowable charging rate, keep on bringing it near till it serves your purpose and charges the battery in required time.

No it’s not a faulty battery, its not even a fault at all, this is where tuning is needed. you need to tune your charging rate.

[unstopabl3]

Charging rate maybe very slow, reason you are experiencing this is because your ups trickle charges the battery which means that it charges the battery in three different stages at three different rates. Your batteries has no issue, its perfectly normal, as I said that you need an amp-meter to measure the charging rate.

It is normal for the voltage on battery terminal to drop to 25 Volts or 24 volts after charging stops or cutoff voltage if set to 28.8 Volts is achieved, soon charging will stop, this will drop.

Now, in first stage your ups chargers the battery with maybe 8 amperes maybe till 26.06 Volts, then once this voltage is achieved or registered by ups then charging rate slows down to maybe 5 amperes or 4 amperes and then correspondingly to 1 amperes in end. If for example charging rate for 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] stage changes at 27 Volts then you will experience the drop in voltage terminals to 26.6volts so just wanted to say this is normal as charging has also slowed down and in long term it is good for batteries provided ups is able to charge the battery in required time and if not, then this is what you have to see and adjust the charging rate by using on board variables on ups.

Get hold of amp-meter, which tells you about the charging rate. First find out about the charging rate at each stage then change it using on board variable such that at any stage it should not cross the maximum allowable charging rate (13 amperes)

Example: ugs 175 has an amp-hr rating of 130 according to their site, maximum allowable charging rate for this is 13 amperes in start, change the charging rate to 10 or 11 amperes for first step and correspondingly it will also be change for second and third stage.

Charging at 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] and 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] stage will be slower than the first stage. You don’t have to increase it to its maximum allowable charging rate, keep on bringing it near till it serves your purpose and charges the battery in required time.

No it’s not a faulty battery, its not even a fault at all, this is where tuning is needed. you need to tune your charging rate.

But I'm baffled that why the batteries would be fully charged in 1.5Hours a week ago when they were brand new and I checked they were being charged at 10-13A initially but now I've checked this value has reduced to 8-9A initially and then goes down to 5A and then 3A and then 1A as you have mentioned it should. So how come these settings have changed all of a sudden, even though I've not changed them.

I want my UPS to charge both my Phoenix UGS 175 batteries in 1.5Hours after 1 hour of normal use on loadshedding.
So I will go to UPS guy tomorrow and get these settings done, please advise if they are perfect:

Initial Charging Rate: 13A
Cutoff Voltage: 28.10V
Output Voltage: 260V
Low Voltage Cutoff: 20.6V

Anything else I need to be aware of???

Also wanted to ask that if Wapda is not giving proper 220V and instead I'm getting 200-210V does this effect the charging time??? If so would getting a stabilizer and hooking it up with the UPS help in quicker charging???

Thanks a lot for your help

[unstopabl3]

Also wanted to ask you that if it's taking 3 hours for the UPS to charge my batteries NOWADAYS, does that mean MORE electricity bill for me???

Or does this slow charging get compensated due to lower charging rate/amperes meaning longer times for charging but SAME bill???

[talhawaleed]

Thanks bro, also let me know about:

I am planning to buy a pure sign wave UPS, can you tell me a cheap way to charge the batter from solar setup with the help of a mppt charger and panels. Is it possible to completely stop the UPS from charging batter and act as an inverter only?

Saw couple of Chinese ups available in the market who are pure signwave.

Good question, are you willing to invest 7-8 lacs on solar panels, I think, if you can import it then you can do two things with it, first charge the battery and simultaneously use the output to power rest of the ups line. You can only save cost by importing it, get more units on lesser price. During day, batteries will be charged and simultaneously provide you with output using solar controller and during night, you will entirely be on backup mode.

Understand the limitations, you need enough solar panels to simultaneously charge the batteries and run your load. You cannot leave your lead acid batteries in discharged state for longer as otherwise they will be ruined in days? time, that?s why you need to charge near maximum allowable charging rate and for that you need many solar panels. You would also need deep cycle batteries that can be discharged to 50% of its capacity without being damaged.

Solar controllers will eliminate the need of ups inverter in-between as it has a built in inverter. This is can be done, provided if you have lots of money which you want to spare it for your project, you would need understanding, bigger bank of deep cycle batteries, plus lots of solar panels so that you don?t end up killing your batteries by letting it remain in-discharged state.

Solar, wind turbine controllers are available on aliexpress.com, difference between solar controllers and ups are that ups relies on input from WAPDA whereas it takes input from solar panels, wind turbines, rest both operates in a similar fashion. J

[talhawaleed]

Also wanted to ask you that if it's taking 3 hours for the UPS to charge my batteries NOWADAYS, does that mean MORE electricity bill for me???

Or does this slow charging get compensated due to lower charging rate/amperes meaning longer times for charging but SAME bill???

First, suppose your cutoff voltage is adjusted to 28.8 Volts then you would want to reach least 28 Volts in least amount of time. Least amount of time is what you need to determine by looking into your load shedding schedule. If later it starts to charge you battery at 1 amperes or 2 amperes of current then least this will protect your batteries from forming sulfate crystals, keep it topped up for the load shedding which may arrive at any moment.

Bill is a tricky question, power which will go into topping up the batteries will consume more bill, more units down the line. Alternate to this is that you adjust such that your ups charges the battery in last stage at 3-4 amperes of current. Sooner, it will hit your cutoff voltage then charging will stop at all. If last stage charging is at 1 amperes then it may keep on charging the battery for around 8-9 hours maybe.

Example, if cut of voltage is adjusted to 28.5 volts, then you would want to hit it soon by tuning the ups otherwise it may never stop but since you can see it is above 28 volts so you know you are safe or batteries are ready. There is a slight tradeoff, if you want to see a good battery gravity then this one amperes of charging at last stage is very good, you can tune this to hit 28.5 little sooner and avoiding more bill. Making sure, bill and specific gravity readings remains in balance.

More, you will play around, more you will see things and make out what is better for you. I say, in last stage, it should not take so much time, as otherwise bills haunt us later. That is a problem on imported ups that we cannot do anything about it as what set by factory is set for good but in local, we can play around.

[talhawaleed]

But I'm baffled that why the batteries would be fully charged in 1.5Hours a week ago when they were brand new and I checked they were being charged at 10-13A initially but now I've checked this value has reduced to 8-9A initially and then goes down to 5A and then 3A and then 1A as you have mentioned it should. So how come these settings have changed all of a sudden, even though I've not changed them.

I want my UPS to charge both my Phoenix UGS 175 batteries in 1.5Hours after 1 hour of normal use on loadshedding.
So I will go to UPS guy tomorrow and get these settings done, please advise if they are perfect:

Initial Charging Rate: 13A
Cutoff Voltage: 28.10V
Output Voltage: 260V
Low Voltage Cutoff: 20.6V

Anything else I need to be aware of???

Also wanted to ask that if Wapda is not giving proper 220V and instead I'm getting 200-210V does this effect the charging time??? If so would getting a stabilizer and hooking it up with the UPS help in quicker charging???

Thanks a lot for your help

You can tune the charging rate by using on board variables. Maybe your brand new batteries were empty in start, once batteries are empty or in greater discharged state then ups charges them initially with heavy current. Let it discharge it fully, then put it back into charging, you may experience the same charging rate which you saw in the start.
Since it charges the battery in three different stages and you want it to be ready soon so adjust the first stage of charging rate to 12 or 13 amperes, charging rate for rest of the stages will automatically increase.
Remember, you cannot exceed the charging rate at first stage beyond 13 amperes which in your case is a maximum allowable charging rate.

[talhawaleed]

Will this automatically happen/adjust if I set the output voltage to 260V on backup mode??? Or are these two different settings/variables???

We have different variables for different jobs and adjusting all these are very important and very easy if you understand.
1. Charging rate, dictated by your batteries amp-hr rating. you got to read whats written on your batteries and tune your ups.
2. Voltage at which charging stops, cut off voltage 28 to 28.8volts maximum
3. Low cut off voltage at which ups should trip 10.3Volts, this is happens once batteries have become discharged.
4. One for frequency, (leave it as non of the shops I saw had a proper meter to adjust this) should be 50 for Pakistan.
5. Overload variable, if someone accidently put an iron on ups line. This variable determines the maximum allowed load and shuts down immediately on foul play, which is very imported.
6. Output voltage variable.