Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[usmanakbar1]

dear talha yr thread is very much helpful i really appreciate it, i have two excide batteries 190 with 2000 ups and charging amp of 24 since one yr , i have checked the sg with hydrometer it is same in all cells just touching the green mark ecept in one cell which is above red, my batteries dont have that ups output as before the caps are turned mildly blackish what should i do,my battery got overcharged for 6-7 times and got heated as there was problem with its ic which got fixed by now,what should i do now with the batteries should i replace them or wash them as u mentioned in the thread
on ups voltmeter it is always showing 160 -170 volts when ups is on
this is my no 03149071613 if u can just message me yr no i will just take 2 mins of yrs to discuss the matter .i will bw thankful to u

[talhawaleed]

Dear Usman,
first of all, for 190 AH battery the correct charging rate should not exceed 19 Amperes, now two batteries are connected in series so you will have to make sure that charging current does not exceeds 19 Amperes as current remains same in series. under the current conditions, you are fast charging your batteries thats why you can see the caps turning black from inside and batteries should not last for longer.

Since you said that specific gravity of all the cells are touching green mark and one of them is in RED region this means that this cell is about to fail.

trust me, flushing your system at this point in time will not only restore the backup time but will also extend the life of these batteries. Rest output voltage under loadshedding is very wrongly set and this can easily blow the electronic equipment connected to the UPS systems. This is controlled by the variable present on the UPS board. Ask an expert to adjust these variables. in simple your UPS requires a lot of adjustment.

If i would had been at your place, then i would have set the charging rate to maximum 10 amperes or 8 amperes as slow charging is very good for batteries.

Rest i will try to call you tomorrow

P.S: if ever you want to perform flusing, then do it at your own risk as its dangerous to deal with sulphuric acid.

P.S: If you want to ask an electrician to adjust the UPS system, then goto the earlier posts where i have clearly written the checks.

[usmanakbar1]

thanks talha for the reply, first of all i want to tell that i have flushed the batteries with tap water 6 time and someblack clay like material came out ,the material was still coming but i stopped flushing more to avoid damge to batteries and the same acid i poured again tell me that it is right or wrong.
other thing, i went to two batteries store and talked to technician one of them told me that yr one of the battery cell needs to be change and other told me that yr battery is of no more use ,tell me what should i do under such circumstances

[talhawaleed]

First of all, he wants you to buy a new battery and wants you to dispose the older one. This is their business and they can’t help it out. Secondly they themselves are so dam illiterate and that they would never give you an honest opinion.

No, you should have used new Sulphuric Acid; I can understand that most of the people cannot prepare it by themselves. Again perform the flush and drain the batteries for two times with tab water and take it to the battery shop and ask him to fill this battery with new acid with gravity of 1250. Then adjust the charging rate of UPS (Slow charging of 10 AMPS) and put it back on charging.

Test the gravity again after two weeks by your own self with hydrometer.

How would he change one of the cells, he is making you fool. Negotiate first so that he should not charge you more then 300 Rs for filling the batteries with Acid with CG: 1250.

[itsgumbys]

Guys,

I am selling 2, 108 AMP AGS batteries which have been used for 9 months without a single trouble.

Now i dont need them anymore since electricity is no more a issue for me.

I am willing to sell them at 4k (both).

Anybody interested please let me know.

Regards,
Gumby.

[umans]

Prepared Mixture last Saturday for new Osaka IT1500 battery.
here are my findings

• mixed 2.75 litter sulfuric acid with 8 litter deionized water to achieve 1260-1265 gravity
• about 6/7 hours required to cool down the mixture to room temperature
• weight of 4littire sulfuric acid is between 7.5 to 8 kg
• plates in battery will absorb about 80% of water of their volume

Cost

• Hydrometer Rs:140
• 30 litter Deionized Water fro Pyro Rs: 400
• Sulfuric Acid Rs:40/kg
• Osaka IT1500 Rs:11500 (not sure about capacity of battery,Volta office says 220AH,their official sales man says 180AH,some dealers says 200AH or 190Ah)

i filled the battery with electrolyte and leave it for 4 hours to settle down.then attached it with new UPS(Aurora AR77 1400VA 700W).

UPS showed the battery status 100% but kept on charging.

After 4 hours it stopped charging continuously and only charge battery periodically for about 20 seconds in every 2 minutes and showed the status 100%.
Now when I switched off the main supply (wapda) ,it goes to inverter mode and showed the battery status 84% (no load is attached)
When I apply load of about 150 watt it shows battery status 44%.

After 18 hours of charging.
It shows status 100% and charge the battery periodically only
When I switched of wapda it shows the battery status 84% without any load

When I apply load of about 120watt it shows the status of battery 64%

i don't have voltmeter to check voltage of battery.i don't know about accuracy of value shown on UPS LCD.what should i do?how to check battery?
i filled the battery a little above from marked level and i just open the caps for 1st 24 hours.

looking for opinion from experts.....

[whiteangel]

I am also using Aurora UPS AR55 model for the last two years. I recently purchased a new battery Exide 150AH. My UPS also acts in a similar way, as you stated.

It shows battery charge level to be 100% and then it keeps charging and stops after a few hours. But when the power goes out, on 30% load, it shows 44% battery capacity remaining.

I think my UPS is overcharging the batteries, because after 1 week of using the new battery, I can see faint black build-up under the battery caps.

I don't have a DC Ampere meter so I can't be sure of the charging current. I plan on calling Aurora to have someone come over and check the UPS.

[umans]

I am also using Aurora UPS AR55 model for the last two years. I recently purchased a new battery Exide 150AH. My UPS also acts in a similar way, as you stated.

It shows battery charge level to be 100% and then it keeps charging and stops after a few hours. But when the power goes out, on 30% load, it shows 44% battery capacity remaining.

I think my UPS is overcharging the batteries, because after 1 week of using the new battery, I can see faint black build-up under the battery caps.

I don't have a DC Ampere meter so I can't be sure of the charging current. I plan on calling Aurora to have someone come over and check the UPS.

Well before buying i discussed some specification with their representative on email.i'm copying it here for you interest.

1st Mail
Dear Sir,
Many thanks for showing interest in our product please checked the answers of your inquiry.
I'm willing to buy Aurora UPS - LCD-AR55 1000VA / 600W
Sorry sir this model is discontinued the new model is LCD-AR77 1400VA / 700W else the shape and features is same.
Please provide me the following information
Is it possible to change the charging current value.in brochure its stated as 18A max.can i change to some lower value?either it has 2 step or 3 step charger?please explain
Yes, it is computerized chip system control the charging amp, when battery is low then charged up to max 18 Amp and when battery is 50% charged come to 10amp and when battery fully charged up to 90% it will stop charging.
What about warranty?
One year fully with parts warranty.
is it suitable for inductive load like fans, tube-lite etc.
Yes it is best for tube lights and fans.
can i attach 200Ah wet conventional battery with it?
Yes you can attach max 230ah battery.
from where i can buy this and price?
You can buy from aurora outlet hyperstar address is as follows:
Shop: 15, First Floor opposite Hyperstar Café, Hyperstar Fortress Stadium, Lahore Cantt ,Pakistan
Tel: 92-42-36623171-2
Contact Person: Mr. Asif, and Mr. Tanveer
its local made or imported?
It is fully imported
I'm looking forward to hear from you.
I hope you will get detail, still if you have any query feel free to discuss with me.
Regards:
MOHAMMAD RAZA ANJUM

2nd mail
Dear Sir,
Please check detail s
Thanks for prompt response.i really appriciate that.I'm now more inclined to buy it.just want to clear few more things.(i'm computer engineer so can give technical detail if required:-) )
Whats the purpose of communication port?Is it read only port just to see the status of UPS on computer which is also visible on LCD or i can change some parameter of UPS like cutt off voltage and charging current?
Yes you are right it ready only port just to see the status of UPS on computer which is also visible on LCD and it is more efficient.
Does it has 3 step charger including float charger to avoid self discharge of battery or it has only 2 step charger
Yes, 3 step charger including float charger for to control self discharge of battery.
From where it is imported, china or some other country?
From China.
Suggest battery for it(as its 24V i think i have to use two batteries in series)
thanking you in anticipation.
The Model I suggest you LCD-AR77 and even old model LCD-AR55 is 12V, that mean you have to connect one battery 12V.
If you required Backup Time 2 Hours or more than 2 hours I suggest to use Excide 190AH Battery, If less than two hours than Excide 150AH Battery is convenient.

Regards:
M.Raza Anjum

[umans]

I am also using Aurora UPS AR55 model for the last two years. I recently purchased a new battery Exide 150AH. My UPS also acts in a similar way, as you stated.

It shows battery charge level to be 100% and then it keeps charging and stops after a few hours. But when the power goes out, on 30% load, it shows 44% battery capacity remaining.

I think my UPS is overcharging the batteries, because after 1 week of using the new battery, I can see faint black build-up under the battery caps.

I don't have a DC Ampere meter so I can't be sure of the charging current. I plan on calling Aurora to have someone come over and check the UPS.

is this behavior is from day 1st? u r using it from 2 years, tell me your experience.please update me about their response.i mailed him about this and i'll let u know about their response.Please pm me ur contact no

[whiteangel]

It is a reliable machine considering that it has never failed. On one particular occasion a power surge burnt out several of my appliances but the UPS was unaffected.

However it does behave strangely sometimes as far as charging is concerned. It's not like this from day 1. It has started doing this with the new battery. With the previous battery which was an Exide 145AH it would show that the battery charge level, for eg it would show 50 or 60% charge and then gradually charge to 100%. It would still keep charging when showing 100% and then would stop charging after a few hours. When the light went out it would show the battery charge at 80% or so.

But with the new battery it shows it charged 100% most of the time. But when the light goes out it shows 50-44% charge on the battery. Other than that it is working fine.

Although I do feel that it is overcharging the battery, because of black buildup under the battery vent caps, but besides that the battery is not overheating, I guess I would need to get a DC ampere meter to check the charging current.

[umans]

It is a reliable machine considering that it has never failed. On one particular occasion a power surge burnt out several of my appliances but the UPS was unaffected.

However it does behave strangely sometimes as far as charging is concerned. It's not like this from day 1. It has started doing this with the new battery. With the previous battery which was an Exide 145AH it would show that the battery charge level, for eg it would show 50 or 60% charge and then gradually charge to 100%. It would still keep charging when showing 100% and then would stop charging after a few hours. When the light went out it would show the battery charge at 80% or so.

But with the new battery it shows it charged 100% most of the time. But when the light goes out it shows 50-44% charge on the battery. Other than that it is working fine.

Although I do feel that it is overcharging the battery, because of black buildup under the battery vent caps, but besides that the battery is not overheating, I guess I would need to get a DC ampere meter to check the charging current.

what about backup time.as u r using it from 2 years, when it used to show 80% what was the backup time? check the backup time with same load with this new battery which its showing 44%.try to figure out either LCD is showing wrong value or battery is not fully charged.
To me if battery is not getting hot and not reducing water level either,then its not overcharging.dirtry cap can be due to impurities of electrolyte.i may be wrong as well:-(

[whiteangel]

With 145AH battery the back-up time was about 3-4 hours. Maximum load was about 3 fans and 4 energy savers.

I haven't checked maximum back-up time with the new battery, since the load shedding duration is much less now a days. But now that you mention, it I will check the back-up time on full load.

Black caps could be due to impurities in electrolyte. My previous battery died suddenly, and I did not get time to prepare electrolyte myself, had to get it done from the shop. Now I will buy the acid and prepare the electrolyte myself. Where did you buy the acid from, I went to the market near Urdu Bazar, where they sell lab equipment, they were selling lab grade Sulphuric Acid for Rs. 800 and the bottle contained 2.5 Litres, whereas you say you bought it for Rs. 40 per Kg. What is the difference between the two?

[umans]

Just got the response for Auroa

Dear Sir,
Answer of your following questions.
My Questions are
· When it charges the battery periodically (as showed in battery bars of LCD) and showed the status 100% does it means that battery is fully charged?
Ans: When ups is on charging mode it always shows 100%, but it does not mean that the battery is 100% charged, it means that ups applying his 100% force to charge the battery, and we get information that the charger is perfectly ok.
· It shows 100% capacity of battery and charge periodically only(no continuous charging) then why it goes 84% when power source it off and even without any load?
Ans: When main wapda power source is off, then we get actual reading of our battery that how much percentage is charged by ups. But we get maximum accuracy with power load attached with ups.
· Why it goes 84% to 44% instantly when I apply load?
Ans: These ups lcd is designed for Maintenance free dry cell batteries, because in international market our liquid acid batteries is vanished, that’s why we did not get 100% results from LCD, but if the ups lcd shows battery is greater than 45% then we consider it that the battery is 80% charged
· There is no periodic beep (as mentioned in manual) from UPS when I apply the load of 120watt for 2 minutes is it normal?
Ans: Please brief again of your question.
· Also back fan of ups is always on in inverter mode(wapda off) and during charging its synchronized with charging(continuously on when continuous charging and periodically on with periodic charging) is this correct?
Ans: Yes the fan setting is auto, no need to worry, when ups is warm up it will start automatically and when it is cool is will stop.
I seriously doubt about accuracy of LCD status. Is there any problem in my unit or its normal?
Dear Sir, Please do not worry your ups is perfectly ok.
Please confirmed from where you purchased this ups.
Waiting for your reply,
Regards
M. Raza Anjum

[whiteangel]

I am not convinced about his answer to the first question. If 100% means that the UPS is giving 100% charging current (ie. 18 AMPS) then the charging percentage should keep reducing gradually because the UPS automatically reduces its charging amperes as the battery gets charged.

Before fully charging the battery, the charging percentage should reduce to 20 or 10% because the battery is now almost charged and the UPS does not need to give it 100% charging current. If it charging the battery at 100% current continuously, then it means that the charging system is malfunctioning.

[umans]

With 145AH battery the back-up time was about 3-4 hours. Maximum load was about 3 fans and 4 energy savers.

I haven't checked maximum back-up time with the new battery, since the load shedding duration is much less now a days. But now that you mention, it I will check the back-up time on full load.

Black caps could be due to impurities in electrolyte. My previous battery died suddenly, and I did not get time to prepare electrolyte myself, had to get it done from the shop. Now I will buy the acid and prepare the electrolyte myself. Where did you buy the acid from, I went to the market near Urdu Bazar, where they sell lab equipment, they were selling lab grade Sulphuric Acid for Rs. 800 and the bottle contained 2.5 Litres, whereas you say you bought it for Rs. 40 per Kg. What is the difference between the two?

Well!! Lab grade is definately better but 800 for 2.5 litter is not value of money.I got 98% pure sulfuric acid which commonly used for electrolyte and its pufectly fine to use it in battries(did lot of research on net).
in market they'll not consider volume,they always quote per kg price.and 1 litter is about 2kg.i bought it from kot lakhpat road .just enter these cordinates on Google u'll get the location. "31.4579265, 74.332552"
there are 2,3 shops there around the Total fuel station.They insist to buy whole cane of 50 litter.some of them refuse to give 4 litter.but i was able to buy 4 littere from 1 shop.40Rs per litter is without bargaining.They are selling 50 littere in 1000-1100.someone told me its also available near "do moria pul".
if u cant prepare distilled water u can buy deionized water from Pyro
pyro
30 litter water will cost you Rs 400 and they'll deliver to ur home.u have to place the order on phone 1 day before.
if u dont want to prepare electrolyte yourself u can buy electrolyte from pyro 12 litter in Rs 580.

U need be very very very careful while mixing it.rubber gloves are necessary,i used scotch bright rubber gloves which are easily available in market.u need to have Keefe to pour it without leakage.i prepared it in old tub after washing it but after mixing due to heat,the dirt and surf residues which were become the part of tub came of so i have to drain all the mixture and prepare again:-(
make sure ur container is clean, clean it with washroom washing acid or harpic etc otherwise u'll ruin ur mixture.
always add acid to water, never ever add water to acid.calulate the volume of battery and remember, inner plates of battery absorbs about 80% liquid of their volume.so prepare the quantity accordingly.
add the water in container, get a packing material or paper board, make a hole in it and insert the Keefe so that the splashes came out from container will be blocked by sheet.pour the acid slowly and carefully and allow it cool down to room temperature before checking for gravity.
I'll pm u my number. u can contact me if u need any info

[umans]

I am not convinced about his answer to the first question. If 100% means that the UPS is giving 100% charging current (ie. 18 AMPS) then the charging percentage should keep reducing gradually because the UPS automatically reduces its charging amperes as the battery gets charged.

Before fully charging the battery, the charging percentage should reduce to 20 or 10% because the battery is now almost charged and the UPS does not need to give it 100% charging current. If it charging the battery at 100% current continuously, then it means that the charging system is malfunctioning.

u r right.it always shows 100% even when UPS is on trickle charging mode.it charges continuously and after that periodically(roughly about 20 seconds in 2 minutes).to me at this stage battery is fully charged and periodic charging is only to avoid self discharge.
anyways things will be clear when u check ur new battery for backup time.

[whiteangel]

if u cant prepare distilled water u can buy deionized water from Pyro
pyro
30 litter water will cost you Rs 400 and they'll deliver to ur home.u have to place the order on phone 1 day before.
if u dont want to prepare electrolyte yourself u can buy electrolyte from pyro 12 litter in Rs 580.

I think Pyro electrolyte is a good deal. I will opt for electrolyte home delivery. Going all the way to Kot Lakhpat to buy acid will cost more, not to mention the added hassle of preparing it at home.

[umans]

I think Pyro electrolyte is a good deal. I will opt for electrolyte home delivery. Going all the way to Kot Lakhpat to buy acid will cost more, not to mention the added hassle of preparing it at home.

u r right.for 1 battery its relay a hassle unless u have "keera" in u
but i always like to do the things myself:-)
BTW u chose the right option.

[umans]

Thanx to talhawaleed for starting this thread and sharing his knowledge.It motivated me and i read lot more stuff on batteries.I'm thinking to develop a small software utility that will calculate correct charging current,subtitle load,battery backup time and charging time according to given battery parameters.
one thing i want to correct,tlaha says somewhere in this thread that if battery is charged with 15,20 ampere current,its huge enough to run the AC.this is not true.
in ideal case(if ur UPS charger has 100% efficient)
Input power = output power
charger convert 220AC to 12V DC
if its charging at 20Ampare
220*I = 12 * 20
I = (12 * 20)/220
I = 1.09
as voltage is 220
P = 1.09 * 220 = 240watt
if efficiency of charger is 80%
then power consumed by charger when chraging 12 volt battery at 20 ampare is 300watt

[whiteangel]

Thanx to talhawaleed for starting this thread and sharing his knowledge.It motivated me and i read lot more stuff on batteries.I'm thinking to develop a small software utility that will calculate correct charging current,subtitle load,battery backup time and charging time according to given battery parameters.
one thing i want to correct,tlaha says somewhere in this thread that if battery is charged with 15,20 ampere current,its huge enough to run the AC.this is not true.
in ideal case(if ur UPS charger has 100% efficient)
Input power = output power
charger convert 220AC to 12V DC
if its charging at 20Ampare
220*I = 12 * 20
I = (12 * 20)/220
I = 1.09
as voltage is 220
P = 1.09 * 220 = 240watt
if efficiency of charger is 80%
then power consumed by charger when chraging 12 volt battery at 20 ampare is 300watt

I agree with you on that if a UPS is charging @10 DC Amps it does not mean you are consuming 10 AC amps.

By the way can you forward me email of the Aurora guy I want to ask him something.