Moonjee's Quest of SQ - The Focal Utopia Build

[Talhadon]

Stj174 : Shukar Ap ne Pw ka chakar tou lagaya

[blacklist1]

Enclosure designs ftw

I'm pretty much stuck in them rite now :D:P:D

[moonjee]

To back Nauman bhai, here is the booklet screenshot I was going through last night, Focal actually recommends three sizes of enclosures for this sub. 30, 40 and 50 liters. Depending upon your liking you can decide.

F3 in 50 liters is 39.1 Hz as shown.

I went thought ear tests couple of times, and believe me none of us has golden ears at this age. Upper and lowed ends are gone for us so why care about it? I was calculating sub enclosure and I did not include material thickness (MDF), that's when Nauman bhai rescued me. Building a box with 0.75 MDF one cannot go wrong like this. 100 liter box is not recommended by Focal, therefore I'll settle down with 50 liters for now

[roms]

Welcome back Nauman bhai, really glad to see you back in action. I don't consider myself enough to argue with you on this knowledge based material
I will conitnue just for the sake of discussion and learning.

Sir the 50 liter design is given by Focal itself for "deep and articulate bass". Also the F3 is 39.1hz not 41 hz.

Sir you will admit that the manufactures always recommend a small size enclosures which can fit in any environment. But for optimal performance, the recommendations from the manufacturer are no way near. They suggest a standard enclsoure which have more comrpomises than being tailored for perfection. Because each car accoustics and cabin gains are different and the generalized enclsoure from the manufacturer will sound different. I can not challenge you (and never will) but i have modeled this sub in the bassbox pro and the results i came up with are surprising. On a high resolution graph with proportianality to the 50 litres, the reading of F3 is 41Hz (+ - 0.5hz).

Also what you are ignoring here is the "in car transfer function" (cabin gain in our case) which automatically increases the low end frequencies when the enclosure is put inside the car. The design discussed by you or the FR graphs being discussed are of open environments, where the "transfer function" of the cabin is not taken into account. The lower end will automatically be improved once the enclosure is put inside the car.

The in car transfer fuction is different for different vehicles because of space, accoustic properties, reflections and the cabin peak. For instance lets consider that transfer fuction is constant for every vehicle (suppose only), the cars usually have cabin gain in 35hz to 50hz region. Now in case of 50 litres of enclosure, the gain will start to kick in from 35hz and will continue till the 50hz. Will we hear a peak in that region? May be yes. The mids of moon start to roll off at 50hz (thats what he told me).

Now here is an example of the transfer function i mentioned. Look at 20hz, as per the enclosure graph its 72db at 20hz BUT the actual in-car level reaches up to 91db at 20hz that a 19 db GAIN..!! and the f3 you mentioned is only a 3db difference.

The above graph is for Kappa perfect, i am using it in a sealed allignement. Its Fmax is 50hz and enclsoure F3's at 35hz. Senstivity of this sub is 89db, Do you think it will yield highest SPL at 20hz? May be never in this allaignment. It will yield highest SPL at the Fmax. My cabin gain starts to roll of from 25hz because of compact nature of cabin.

100 liters for a sub with the vas of 76 liters ???????

You will agree that the qtc of 0.707 is taken as ideal for any sub to play neutral between the low and high frequencies. I mean to maintain flatest response possible.
With 50 litres of enclosure, the qtc will remain at 0.85, the enclsoure of 100 litres will have the qtc of 0.71, clsoe enough?.

That would be more like putting the sub in a free-air or infinite baffle environment. Do you want to do that ?

We all know what happens to a sub which is designed for a sealed enclosure application, when put in an IB application, bye bye sub :P. Not to mention the poor power handling capability of the sub aswell..!!

No sir it wont be IB. The mms is only 0.35 g, its very light with bL of 9.96n/a , so i dont see a problem there.

20hz is inaudible and to most of our OLD EARS even frequencies much greater than 20hz is inaudible, then whats the point to tuning a sub to an extent which we cant hear?

Now lets talk about the Ported Enclosure:

33V2 as per the EBP values, this sub is NOT suitable for Ported Application. So lets just simply rule out the ported design altogether.

---

Now lets just assume we can make a 100 liters enclosure or a ported 22 hz enclosure. I see no point actually, specially in the integration part . If you disagree with me let me know, I got a few question about your designs which i will be more than glad to ask

Humain hering has a natural roll off and have some attenuation in lower and higher end of the audio spectrum from 20hz to 20,000 hz in order to focus on middle spectrum of sound which we listen everyday. For SQ biulds, flatest responcse is pursuied same as we get in pink noise. So we can't simply rule out 20's region.

The xmax is limited and very low inductance, the sub suits sealed allignments, but a carefully designed can do a good job as well. Same as shahid bhai tried a ported allignment with his focal sub. The 22 hz i suggested it what i would like it to have a response from it. It wont fade till the complete octave and will deviate only 2 db's from the response line at the end of the octave which in this case will be 44 hz. Also don't forget the cabin gain region from 35 hz and up till 50hz

[roms]

To back Nauman bhai, here is the booklet screenshot I was going through last night, Focal actually recommends three sizes of enclosures for this sub. 30, 40 and 50 liters. Depending upon your liking you can decide.

F3 in 50 liters is 39.1 Hz as shown.

I went thought ear tests couple of times, and believe me none of us has golden ears at this age. Upper and lowed ends are gone for us so why care about it? I was calculating sub enclosure and I did not include material thickness (MDF), that's when Nauman bhai rescued me. Building a box with 0.75 MDF one cannot go wrong like this. 100 liter box is not recommended by Focal, therefore I'll settle down with 50 liters for now

Hey moon, Nauman bhai is one of the pioneers, so you should go eyes closed.

[blacklist1]

Always good to learn

[stj174]

Welcome back Nauman bhai, really glad to see you back in action. I don't consider myself enough to argue with you on this knowledge based material
I will conitnue just for the sake of discussion and learning.

Thank you Sir and thanks for your kind words

Sir you will admit that the manufactures always recommend a small size enclosures which can fit in any environment. But for optimal performance, the recommendations from the manufacturer are no way near. They suggest a standard enclsoure which have more comrpomises than being tailored for perfection. Because each car accoustics and cabin gains are different and the generalized enclsoure from the manufacturer will sound different. I can not challenge you (and never will) but i have modeled this sub in the bassbox pro and the results i came up with are surprising. On a high resolution graph with proportianality to the 50 litres, the reading of F3 is 41Hz (+ - 0.5hz).

Here i will disagree to you since Focal has suggested 3 different enclosure recommendation ranging for 3o liters to 50 liters for different acoustic alignments. Its Focal we are talking about not Pioneer entry level subs .

We dont have any means to measure the cabin transfer function of our cars, so its better we take the generalized version for the transfer function.

About the enclosure modeling these free software we use or the cracked version we use are no where near the software used by the high end brands, so they are prone to have bugs and errors and are not dead accurate. Focal have done that for us and given the f3 to be 39.1hz. Thanks to Focal.

The in car transfer fuction is different for different vehicles because of space, accoustic properties, reflections and the cabin peak. For instance lets consider that transfer fuction is constant for every vehicle (suppose only), the cars usually have cabin gain in 35hz to 50hz region. Now in case of 50 litres of enclosure, the gain will start to kick in from 35hz and will continue till the 50hz. Will we hear a peak in that region? May be yes. The mids of moon start to roll off at 50hz (thats what he told me).

Since we dont have the cabin transfer function for moon jee's car sorry that assumption does not stand true.

As far as the Moon's mids are concerned well they WILL have a sudden roll off at 69hz, thats the fs of the 6krx3 and also at fs the speaker impedance of the speaker is maximum, obviously it would NOT be drawing enough power from the amp at that point. . But as per the graph the rool off starts at 150hz..!!!

Also when the driver's fs is 69hz there is no point setting the hpf at 50hz. It should be cutoff above the fs (80hz HPF)

Now here is the FR of 6krx3 driver installed in Moon's car. Red arrow marks the roll off and you can see the steep increase in impedance at fs.

HENCE PROVED.

The above graph is for Kappa perfect, i am using it in a sealed allignement. Its Fmax is 50hz and enclsoure F3's at 35hz. Senstivity of this sub is 89db, Do you think it will yield highest SPL at 20hz? May be never in this allaignment. It will yield highest SPL at the Fmax. My cabin gain starts to roll of from 25hz because of compact nature of cabin.

As per the graph it will. Depending on the cabin gain taken into accout by infinity. BTW how did you measure the cabin transfer function of your car? :P

You will agree that the qtc of 0.707 is taken as ideal for any sub to play neutral between the low and high frequencies. I mean to maintain flatest response possible.
With 50 litres of enclosure, the qtc will remain at 0.85, the enclsoure of 100 litres will have the qtc of 0.71, clsoe enough?.

QTC is a roll off and roll off is a roll off, IT WONT STAY FLAT. QTC 0.7 is desirable since it has a smoother ROLL OFF it wont stay FLAT...!!! Please show me a graph with the QTC you mentioned giving a FLAT response. There will be no such graph.

No sir it wont be IB. The mms is only 0.35 g, its very light with bL of 9.96n/a , so i dont see a problem there.

OMG. Let me post an image which will clears things for you.

Any volume which a sub sees exceding its vas will be INFINITE BAFFLE.

Now the pic below is taken from xtant web site (these are NOT my words). Clearly saying that the 100 liter enclosure for Focal polyglass 33v2 IS and WILL be an infinite baffle or free air application.

http://www.xtant.com/archives/html/techsupport/enclosures.cfm

HENCE PROVED.

Humain hering has a natural roll off and have some attenuation in lower and higher end of the audio spectrum from 20hz to 20,000 hz in order to focus on middle spectrum of sound which we listen everyday. For SQ biulds, flatest responcse is pursuied same as we get in pink noise. So we can't simply rule out 20's region.

Actually its not the flattest response ..!! ideally the highs have a roll off and the low end frequencies are slightly boosted. Thats why its called REFERENCE CURVE not flat response.

The xmax is limited and very low inductance, the sub suits sealed allignments, but a carefully designed can do a good job as well. Same as shahid bhai tried a ported allignment with his focal sub. The 22 hz i suggested it what i would like it to have a response from it. It wont fade till the complete octave and will deviate only 2 db's from the response line at the end of the octave which in this case will be 44 hz. Also don't forget the cabin gain region from 35 hz and up till 50hz

A sub with an fs of 28.71 hz you want to tune it at 22hz ???? sab theek hay na ??

Please also with 22hz what net enclosue volume will you recommend??

Sorry for the short but comprehensive reply, busy in office. But i can go all day on this.

So the bottom line is:

1. Any volume greater than vas is Infinite Baffle.
2. 100 liters for this sub is impractical.
3. This sub can not be tuned at inaudible 22 hz (since the sub's fs is 28hz)
4. Cabin transfer will account for increase in low end frequencies.
5. Qtc 0.7 is NOT a flat FR its just a smooth roll off.
6. If qtc 0.7 is desired, better change the sub.
7. KRX3 should not be cut at 50hz.
8. Integration of drivers and transparency is more important than getting 22hz response.

[moonjee]

When did I say that? I always cut my mids before 69 Hz, I would like you to remind me if we had such conversation. I tried between 70 to 80 Hz to be honest, never tried going lower than 69 Hz cause of the natural driver roll off.

Nauman bhai and my setup is almost identical now, therefore I rely on him maybe way too much, but today's post shows I got to study more for myself either. This is like going beyond the data sheets hehe!

Welcome back Nauman bhai, really glad to see you back in action. I don't consider myself enough to argue with you on this knowledge based material
I will conitnue just for the sake of discussion and learning.

Sir you will admit that the manufactures always recommend a small size enclosures which can fit in any environment. But for optimal performance, the recommendations from the manufacturer are no way near. They suggest a standard enclsoure which have more comrpomises than being tailored for perfection. Because each car accoustics and cabin gains are different and the generalized enclsoure from the manufacturer will sound different. I can not challenge you (and never will) but i have modeled this sub in the bassbox pro and the results i came up with are surprising. On a high resolution graph with proportianality to the 50 litres, the reading of F3 is 41Hz (+ - 0.5hz).

The in car transfer fuction is different for different vehicles because of space, accoustic properties, reflections and the cabin peak. For instance lets consider that transfer fuction is constant for every vehicle (suppose only), the cars usually have cabin gain in 35hz to 50hz region. Now in case of 50 litres of enclosure, the gain will start to kick in from 35hz and will continue till the 50hz. Will we hear a peak in that region? May be yes. The mids of moon start to roll off at 50hz (thats what he told me).

The above graph is for Kappa perfect, i am using it in a sealed allignement. Its Fmax is 50hz and enclsoure F3's at 35hz. Senstivity of this sub is 89db, Do you think it will yield highest SPL at 20hz? May be never in this allaignment. It will yield highest SPL at the Fmax. My cabin gain starts to roll of from 25hz because of compact nature of cabin.

You will agree that the qtc of 0.707 is taken as ideal for any sub to play neutral between the low and high frequencies. I mean to maintain flatest response possible.
With 50 litres of enclosure, the qtc will remain at 0.85, the enclsoure of 100 litres will have the qtc of 0.71, clsoe enough?.

No sir it wont be IB. The mms is only 0.35 g, its very light with bL of 9.96n/a , so i dont see a problem there.

Humain hering has a natural roll off and have some attenuation in lower and higher end of the audio spectrum from 20hz to 20,000 hz in order to focus on middle spectrum of sound which we listen everyday. For SQ biulds, flatest responcse is pursuied same as we get in pink noise. So we can't simply rule out 20's region.

The xmax is limited and very low inductance, the sub suits sealed allignments, but a carefully designed can do a good job as well. Same as shahid bhai tried a ported allignment with his focal sub. The 22 hz i suggested it what i would like it to have a response from it. It wont fade till the complete octave and will deviate only 2 db's from the response line at the end of the octave which in this case will be 44 hz. Also don't forget the cabin gain region from 35 hz and up till 50hz

[roms]

Thank you Sir and thanks for your kind words

Here i will disagree to you since Focal has suggested 3 different enclosure recommendation ranging for 3o liters to 50 liters for different acoustic alignments. Its Focal we are talking about not Pioneer entry level subs .

We dont have any means to measure the cabin transfer function of our cars, so its better we take the generalized version for the transfer function.

About the enclosure modeling these free software we use or the cracked version we use are no where near the software used by the high end brands, so they are prone to have bugs and errors and are not dead accurate. Focal have done that for us and given the f3 to be 39.1hz. Thanks to Focal.

Since we dont have the cabin transfer function for moon jee's car sorry that assumption does not stand true.

As far as the Moon's mids are concerned well they WILL have a sudden roll off at 69hz, thats the fs of the 6krx3 and also at fs the speaker impedance of the speaker is maximum, obviously it would NOT be drawing enough power from the amp at that point. . But as per the graph the rool off starts at 150hz..!!!

Also when the driver's fs is 69hz there is no point setting the hpf at 50hz. It should be cutoff above the fs (80hz HPF)

Now here is the FR of 6krx3 driver installed in Moon's car. Red arrow marks the roll off and you can see the steep increase in impedance at fs.

HENCE PROVED.

As per the graph it will. Depending on the cabin gain taken into accout by infinity. BTW how did you measure the cabin transfer function of your car? :P

QTC is a roll off and roll off is a roll off, IT WONT STAY FLAT. QTC 0.7 is desirable since it has a smoother ROLL OFF it wont stay FLAT...!!! Please show me a graph with the QTC you mentioned giving a FLAT response. There will be no such graph.

Any volume which a sub sees exceding its vas will be INFINITE BAFFLE.

Now the pic below is taken from xtant web site (these are NOT my words). Clearly saying that the 100 liter enclosure for Focal polyglass 33v2 IS and WILL be an infinite baffle or free air application.

Xtant Tech Support - Enclosure Design & Construction

HENCE PROVED.

A sub with an fs of 28.71 hz you want to tune it at 22hz ???? sab theek hay na ??

Please also with 22hz what net enclosue volume will you recommend??

Sorry for the short but comprehensive reply, busy in office. But i can go all day on this.

So the bottom line is:

[LIST=1]
[*]Any volume greater than vas is Infinite Baffle.

[*]100 liters for this sub is impractical.

[*]This sub can not be tuned at inaudible 22 hz (since the sub's fs is 28hz)

[*]Cabin transfer will account for increase in low end frequencies.

[*]Qtc 0.7 is NOT a flat FR its just a smooth roll off.

[*]If qtc 0.7 is desired, better change the sub.
[*]KRX3 should not be cut at 50hz.
[*]Integration of drivers and transparency is more important than getting 22hz response.
[/LIST]

Well the bugs in these software will remain as minute details mess up the graphs, i am not pro than the focal but surely i want to have a go on the specs.
I am not defending anything just sharing my thoughts on it,
SQ competion car's have done IB's due to its better response than the sealed allignments.
Fs is measured the reonance in free air. When the driver goes into the chamber/ enclsoure, the reonance of the box should be considered known as fb.
Moon told me that his cut off was 50 hz. may be with a -24db slope.
MS8 will solve the integration issues, cuz group delay in small sealed boxes is higher than large allignments.

50 litre may be ideal but if i was supposed to biuld a enclsoure for v2, than i would have definately tried 100 litres if i had space.

Please don't go back from PW. Its request from all members

[roms]

Hey moon, what are your initial thoughts on the HU Amazing.isn't it?

[roms]

Moon you told in whatsapp, when you bought krx3. ANyways leave it. Btw left hand drive is very irritating in start. When i first drove in dubai, i took the round about in convential way but got away from the cops.

[stj174]

Well the bugs in these software will remain as minute details mess up the graphs, i am not pro than the focal but surely i want to have a go on the specs.

Yes sir, sorry but it went wrong.

You did your home work by modeling and designing on the software you are using. But it only took me a minute to conclude:

• 100 liters will not be suitable.
• 100 liters will be IB application.
• This sub is not designed for ported application due to its EBP values.
• This sub can not be tuned at 22hz due to higher fs of the sub= 28hz.

and you are still preaching the same.

If you put in the parameters and tell the software to design a box for qtc 0.7, obviously its just a software and lacks the common sense to tell you that 100 liters will not be a sealed enclosure so it designed a 100 liter for you.

I am not defending anything just sharing my thoughts on it,

Sir you totally denied many of my point and still are, such as

• My 50 liters recommendation.
• That 100 liters will not be IB. (thanks to xtant wala link which set things straight)
• You still are defending for that 100 liter and now for the free air application, which the sub and also the moon jee install is not suited for.
• Still opting for 22hz tuning, which i have proven by showing you its below the fs.
• Still opting for ported enclosure which i have shown you through EBP value.
• Totally ruling out the cabin gain scenario.
• List goes on.

SQ competion car's have done IB's due to its better response than the sealed allignments.

How do you define better? Is it just the low end (22hz response) which only makes the response better?

Let me add, since you are giving competition car example; Yes they sometimes use IB, also they prefer NOT going passive and i have NEVER seen rear-fill in a stereo competition install.

You are giving completion car examples but you yourself did not follow any of those competition car setups.

Also the sub that you have (Kappa VQ) is capable of running IB why dont you start by yourself. If IB is that good, Run your sub free-air/ IB.

You are giving examples and recommendations but totally not following them yourself.

Now about the IB application in the competition installs:

Yes i am well aware that IB are used. But does throwing a sub in an IB make you win competition? I guess not.

When using IB application, it is taken into account the rest of the driver application and capabilities and xo points. Usually when using IB, multiple subs are used or/and larger mid-bass drivers (say 8, 9 inch) are used so that that are well capable of going lower than the typical 80hz and the mid-bass drivers are loud and fast enough in the higher sub-bass octaves so that the IB application of the sub do not sound laggy or slow. TRANSIENT RESPONSE.

Fs is measured the reonance in free air. When the driver goes into the chamber/ enclsoure, the reonance of the box should be considered known as fb.

Fb is always greater than Fs. Period.

Sir i know what "Fb" is (lol), I am designing and playing around with these softwares and enclosure building a v long time ago and back then no one at PW even knew what it was. People who know me from worldcall car AV forum do know what i am talking about.....!

Been there done that bro.

Moon told me that his cut off was 50 hz. may be with a -24db slope.

Before simply throwing my design in the dust bin right away, you should have checked the 6krx3 specs yourself. Atleast I knew what i was taking about before this argument started.

MS8 will solve the integration issues, cuz group delay in small sealed boxes is higher than large allignments.

I think one should be more worried about the group delay caused by the ported enclosure. hmm?

BTW i had the very 1st MS-8 at Pakwheels

50 litre may be ideal but if i was supposed to biuld a enclsoure for v2, than i would have definately tried 100 litres if i had space.

But 1st try the VQ in an IB application

Please don't go back from PW. Its request from all members

So nice of you Sir. I have no car audio setup atm, although i do have a 100% complete setup for the Mark X ready to be installed. Had no intention to join PW before the setup was complete. By sadly i received an sms from a PW member, who wanted me to check out your post which simply threw my recommendation in the dust bin. Thats why i came in to set things straight.

Also i received a text to give my input in the "coaxial vs component" wali debate (lol), read it, but did not post since it did not concerned me. So i stayed out of the fuss.

[roms]

Sir i never said to throw your design in the bin, but the moon was emphasizing in lower end in whatsapp txt.
I wish i could do IB with Vq but it is not possible because i have a hatch back. May be in future.
Will definitely be stalking your upcoming biuld in Mark x.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stj174]

Sir i never said to throw your design in the bin, but the moon was emphasizing in lower end in whatsapp txt.
I wish i could do IB with Vq but it is not possible because i have a hatch back. May be in future.
Will definitely be stalking your upcoming biuld in Mark x.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure things Roms Bhai, i will post my Mark X setup when i am done

[saqib84]

Hey naveed???u went to Dubai???when??

[moonjee]

All hail to Nauman bhai.. I can picture you saying all this to me, the way you usually do haha like a boss.. But I like it!

Enclosure coming up soon, I hope my hand made box would come upto the mark. Last minute tips would really help though hehe

Whenever I dig through old threads I always bump into you, and it feels like I have missed a lot that you been gone through, but everything is documented, and it helps me a lot. I wish you good luck with your Mark X, I am sure it would be a great sound system, to your liking of course..

And Roms bhai, the DVD when I auditioned it in Nauman bhai's car, I thought to myself, I want one too.. hehe no match to SQ in DVD HU's.. I wonder how would it sound with everything in place and tuned..

Thanks for your support and help, enjoyed and learnt a lot from the constructive discussion, that is rare now on this forum..

Lastly, Roms bhai told me Nauman bhai auditioned his setup, I would like to hear it from him about how it was. I would one day like to demo it myself. Kindly post your reviews Nauman bhai.. According to Talhadon it was magical and out of this world

[roms]

All hail to Nauman bhai.. I can picture you saying all this to me, the way you usually do haha like a boss.. But I like it!

Enclosure coming up soon, I hope my hand made box would come upto the mark. Last minute tips would really help though hehe

Whenever I dig through old threads I always bump into you, and it feels like I have missed a lot that you been gone through, but everything is documented, and it helps me a lot. I wish you good luck with your Mark X, I am sure it would be a great sound system, to your liking of course..

And Roms bhai, the DVD when I auditioned it in Nauman bhai's car, I thought to myself, I want one too.. hehe no match to SQ in DVD HU's.. I wonder how would it sound with everything in place and tuned..

Thanks for your support and help, enjoyed and learnt a lot from the constructive discussion, that is rare now on this forum..

Lastly, Roms bhai told me Nauman bhai auditioned his setup, I would like to hear it from him about how it was. I would one day like to demo it myself. Kindly post your reviews Nauman bhai.. According to Talhadon it was magical and out of this world

No doubt about Nauman bhai, he is one of the pioneers of car audio scene in pakistan along with shahid bhai. Healthy discussion should take place, thats how we learn. Errors are the first indication that you are trying to learn to achieve some thing.

Again Nauman bhai was the first to use this HU and refered me to it as well, its just amazing and your MS8 can take it to next level.

Yes Talha said it was magical but dont take his words seriously . As when i met nauman bhai that day, i was prepared to buy Alpine H650 that night but after nauman bhai audition he said there is no need for DSP at the moment and everything is accounted perfectly. Rest he can tell better wheter it was so so or ok.
For me now, i am very tired and engaged in some hectic scenes. So at the moment i am stopping by at this state until i get some time out from some extensive routines.

[moonjee]

Yes bro I have moved abroad, in middle east, not just in Dubai, I am looking for a place to settle down.. Whats up there? I hope all is well..

Hey naveed???u went to Dubai???when??

[moonjee]

Best thing about car audio is that you cannot get things right the first time, you GOT TO experiment until you get to something. I love it!

Nauman bhai will be back with a brand new rap soon.. Hes probably going even bigger this time..

Lets hope the magic continues and charms you everyday.. Tired, lazy and old. You're dying bro, get up live the rest of your life pursuing SQ..

No doubt about Nauman bhai, he is one of the pioneers of car audio scene in pakistan along with shahid bhai. Healthy discussion should take place, thats how we learn. Errors are the first indication that you are trying to learn to achieve some thing.

Again Nauman bhai was the first to use this HU and refered me to it as well, its just amazing and your MS8 can take it to next level.

Yes Talha said it was magical but dont take his words seriously . As when i met nauman bhai that day, i was prepared to buy Alpine H650 that night but after nauman bhai audition he said there is no need for DSP at the moment and everything is accounted perfectly. Rest he can tell better wheter it was so so or ok.
For me now, i am very tired and engaged in some hectic scenes. So at the moment i am stopping by at this state until i get some time out from some extensive routines.

[Talhadon]

The above discussion is simply flied over my head
But Glad to know ,that someone learnt something from here ......Without concerning with mods to banned and delete the post of particular member