My world record of Fuel Economy in Honda City 09

[z06]

ahem...that is shocking...

[BilalYusrat]

That 26.4 Kmpl was a record of City i-vtec. Not i-dsi. I read a whole article about this when I was deciding between a XLi and a City. And this really convinced me to buy City.

And hey, if you search for "Honda City Fuel Economy Record" on Google, you won't get the 26.4 Kpl guy, you'll get ME!

Honda City fuel economy record - Google Search

Yayyyyyyyy! So now I am officially the world record holder!

I had almost 100% plans of putting CNG. But come to think of it, I don't think I'll spend 35 - 45 thousand rupees on this which:

1. Voids the warranty.
2. Gives a chance to local mechanics to tune the car.
3. Changes the sound of the engine.
4. Always keeps one worried about the 'starting.' The fear of getting Petrol and Gas mixed. I mean the way EFI shifts from Gas to petrol (or vice versa) really scares me. Its almost like the car is going to turn off while shifting.
5. Saves 40,000 Rupees.

And there are many many other things that I cannot think of.

[VCheng]

You're absolutely right.

Thank you for accepting that.

But I have one more confusion.

If you have only one more confusion, you are far ahead of me already.

I mean the logic is perfect, and its absolutely acceptable to me too that smaller tyres/rims obviously make more revolutions.

More revolutions per mile travelled.

What I am confused about is how come the smaller (or larger) tyres don't put any impact on the speedometer?

Yes they do, in direct proportion to the change in size from stock.

I had an Alto, and its tyres were bigger than the factory tyres. It had 14" tires I think and factory ones are 12".

Instead of thinking in terms of the diameter of the wheel, think of the rolling diameter of the wheel/tire combination and go from there.

But I calculated its speed with GPS and it was 99% the same as shown on the speedometer. I won't say 100% because the speed on GPS updates after a second or two, but in the car its real time. That's why GPS wasn't able to catchup with the speedometer.

If the factory 12" wheels had a tire with a larger sidewall, and the replacement 14" wheel had a tire with a small sidewall so that the number of revolutions per mile was the same, there would be no change on the speedometer or odometer.

Also, GPS signals in Pakistan are intentionally not accurate, unless you were using a dual WAAS enabled receiver.

Anyways, if this is such a small impact on the speedometer, its even smaller on the odometer and the trip calculator, right? So this difference can probably be neglected.

"Probably" is right up there with "assume" as a dangerous intellectual shortcut that will lead you astray unless you know all the applicable facts.

[VCheng]

That is because the profile of sidewall must ve been decreased accordingly to keep the overall diameter or tire plus rim same as that with 12inch rim...

see,

my city had 165/80/r13 as stock size
i changed them to 185/65/r14 (or 185/70/r13)
the over all diameter or rim plus tire remains the same so the speedo is accurate or has very little error... max acceptable error is 3% btw...

Thank you for that relevant example.

[BilalYusrat]

Thank you for accepting that.

If you have only one more confusion, you are far ahead of me already.

More revolutions per mile travelled.

Yes they do, in direct proportion to the change in size from stock.

Instead of thinking in terms of the diameter of the wheel, think of the rolling diameter of the wheel/tire combination and go from there.

If the factory 12" wheels had a tire with a larger sidewall, and the replacement 14" wheel had a tire with a small sidewall so that the number of revolutions per mile was the same, there would be no change on the speedometer or odometer.

Also, GPS signals in Pakistan are intentionally not accurate, unless you were using a dual WAAS enabled receiver.

"Probably" is right up there with "assume" as a dangerous intellectual shortcut that will lead you astray unless you know all the applicable facts.

So yes.. its really irrelevant, right? Doesn't put a lot of difference.

Also, no body I know of has ever put smaller wheels or tires than the ones supplied from the factory. People mostly go for larger ones.

So its an irrelevant discussion.

[Temojin]

If CNG is installed, local mechanics tune the car and if not, mechanics from Japan do it???? Pun apart, the people at honda centres are generally worse than our "local" mechanics.
Congratulations on the satisfactory performance of your car though.
Cheers mate.

[BilalYusrat]

If CNG is installed, local mechanics tune the car and if not, mechanics from Japan do it???? Pun apart, the people at honda centres are generally worse than our "local" mechanics.
Congratulations on the satisfactory performance of your car though.
Cheers mate.

It wasn't as difficult as it appeared to you, here is how it goes:

If CNG is installed, you're asking local mechanics to tune the car.

If NOT, you're running it on Factory settings for the longest possible time frame. The car might as well not need any tuning for 30 - 50 thousand kilometers. May be more. On CNG you start off by disturbing the factory defaults may be at 5000 kilometers, and then this goes on for the rest of one's life.

Wasn't that easy?

[ahmadbila]

That 26.4 Kmpl was a record of City i-vtec. Not i-dsi. I read a whole article about this when I was deciding between a XLi and a City. And this really convinced me to buy City.
.

You have no other option BUT to agree with me.Trust me, if its about city, theres hardly any chance that im wrong

Honda City i-DSI gets 26.2km per liter in fuel economy challenge

[BilalYusrat]

You have no other option BUT to agree with me.Trust me, if its about city, theres hardly any chance that im wrong

Honda City i-DSI gets 26.2km per liter in fuel economy challenge

Sir I do agree, of course.

But really I remember reading something very similar about i-vtec. Sachi.

[ahmadbila]

That 26.4 Kmpl was a record of City i-vtec. Not i-dsi. I read a whole article about this when I was deciding between a XLi and a City. And this really convinced me to buy City.

And hey, if you search for "Honda City Fuel Economy Record" on Google, you won't get the 26.4 Kpl guy, you'll get ME!

Honda City fuel economy record - Google Search

Yayyyyyyyy! So now I am officially the world record holder!

I had almost 100% plans of putting CNG. But come to think of it, I don't think I'll spend 35 - 45 thousand rupees on this which:

1. Voids the warranty.
2. Gives a chance to local mechanics to tune the car.
3. Changes the sound of the engine.
4. Always keeps one worried about the 'starting.' The fear of getting Petrol and Gas mixed. I mean the way EFI shifts from Gas to petrol (or vice versa) really scares me. Its almost like the car is going to turn off while shifting.
5. Saves 40,000 Rupees.

And there are many many other things that I cannot think of.

1) Yes...voids warrenty
2) Sometimes, good local mechanics are much better then those crooks at honda dealerships.my local mechanic does much much better jobs compared to honda guys...
3) It doesn't! on Efi cars atleast.
4) This will NEVER happen... do u even know how EFI works? bcuz if u do, u wud never post this one... there is no chance of mixing to gas n petrol even if u switch to petrol-cng-petrol-cng 3 times in a second...!!!
5) Yes, but if u drive almost 100kms daily, after some time the price of the kit pays off...

[ahmadbila]

Sir I do agree, of course.

But really I remember reading something very similar about i-vtec. Sachi.

May be someone did a test of vtec version too, but im sure that the 16 valve 1296cc vtec engine can hardly do as much kms as the 1248cc 8 valve idsi ( 8 plug ) engine used to do...

[BilalYusrat]

1) Yes...voids warrenty
2) Sometimes, good local mechanics are much better then those crooks at honda dealerships.my local mechanic does much much better jobs compared to honda guys...
3) It doesn't! on Efi cars atleast.
4) This will NEVER happen... do u even know how EFI works? bcuz if u do, u wud never post this one... there is no chance of mixing to gas n petrol even if u switch to petrol-cng-petrol-cng 3 times in a second...!!!
5) Yes, but if u drive almost 100kms daily, after some time the price of the kit pays off...

1. I am not advocating Mechanics at Honda at all. I am rather saying its the best to keep it on factory default settings. If you give it to any mechanic who changes it, chances are he does a good job, or a bad one, first of all there is a risk, and secondly there is no chance he can make it better than the factory settings. With Petrol, I don't suppose you will need to get your car tuned at least till 50,000 Kilometers. With CNG, you will need to do that right away.

2. I haven't driven new City in CNG, but I have driven XLi in CNG and I felt it was more noisy and I could really hear the engine even when it wasn't running. In City, at times its not possible for a new person to tell if the car is started or off.

3. It would never happen to EFI.. the Mixing.. well I have no experience with EFI cars running CNG. That's why I used the word fear. So really? There is no chance it would mix? That's very nice. When its shifting, it just seems that its going to mix now and then there would be nothing we can do.

Also, I heard from someone that if in a non-efi car, the gas and petrol mix up, you can open the air filter and it petrol will evaporate away. But in EFI if this happens, you'll have to take the car to a mechanic. Please tell me if this is right.

Regarding how EFI's work.. You see, regardless of how they work, they are definitely not designed for CNG. The cars that have been designed for CNG basically run CNG only, or may be CNG + Propane. They don't have petrol option. And they are designed by engineers at big companies (Ford for example). We cannot compare them with our mechanics. Really.

Regarding the last point of driving 100 kilometers a day. You see that's not always applicable. A cousin of mine has Honda Civic 1.6L and he gets up to 90 Kilometers in one full cylinder. My car is 'cheaper' than this in Petrol. He gets up to 150 Kilometers on Highways. Most big cars get up to 160 Kilometers in one cylinder on highways. So at 160, it becomes about 17 Kilometers/KG (Rs 3.2/KM@ Rs.55/KG). And getting 21 Kilometers/L (Rs 3.5/KM @ Rs. 75/L) is easy in Petrol (at least in Honda City) . You save 0.37/Kilometer with CNG as compared to Petrol.

This way, it will take about.. 108108 Kilometers to Pay off the price of a 40,000 Rupees wali CNG Kit.

That's a lot of time. I drive about 30,000 Kilometers per year. It will take me about 4 years to negate the price of the CNG kit.

[vik_vik]

1) Yes...voids warrenty
2) Sometimes, good local mechanics are much better then those crooks at honda dealerships.my local mechanic does much much better jobs compared to honda guys...
3) It doesn't! on Efi cars atleast.
4) This will NEVER happen... do u even know how EFI works? bcuz if u do, u wud never post this one... there is no chance of mixing to gas n petrol even if u switch to petrol-cng-petrol-cng 3 times in a second...!!!
5) Yes, but if u drive almost 100kms daily, after some time the price of the kit pays off...

Well I guess I am the right person to answer these CNG related questions as I own 2010 HONDA CITY and I installed CNG when ODO was showing 8000 and now it is 13000 and trust me same pick as Petrol and by the way HONDA guys where I go for tuning and stuff, also agrees that this city gives same result as on petrol.

1) Yes.... but I am still getting free checkups so far from HONDA e.g they changed the oil, air filter and oil filter plus cleaned the plugs for free. I mean no labor charges. No one said that you put CNG so we can not stamp your warranty book any more. IT was stamped.

2) Sometimes, good local mechanics are much better then those crooks at honda dealerships. My local mechanic does much much better jobs compared to honda guys...

Totally agree with you dude, I have been tuning my CNG cars with one guy only for the last 5 years now and he is perfect in his profession

3) It doesn't! on Efi cars atleast.

TRUE

4) This will NEVER happen... do u even know how EFI works? bcuz if u do, u wud never post this one... there is no chance of mixing to gas n petrol even if u switch to petrol-cng-petrol-cng 3 times in a second...!!!

Well I am really surprised that Bilal will be saying this, That is why he is not willing to accept CNG in CITY .

5) Yes, but if u drive almost 100kms daily, after some time the price of the kit pays off...

I will start a thread soon when I pays off the price of the kit as I used to drive 100km daily plus I am getting Rs.2.2/km so far on CNG.

[ahmadbila]

1. I am not advocating Mechanics at Honda at all. I am rather saying its the best to keep it on factory default settings. If you give it to any mechanic who changes it, chances are he does a good job, or a bad one, first of all there is a risk, and secondly there is no chance he can make it better than the factory settings. With Petrol, I don't suppose you will need to get your car tuned at least till 50,000 Kilometers. With CNG, you will need to do that right away.

2. I haven't driven new City in CNG, but I have driven XLi in CNG and I felt it was more noisy and I could really hear the engine even when it wasn't running. In City, at times its not possible for a new person to tell if the car is started or off.

3. It would never happen to EFI.. the Mixing.. well I have no experience with EFI cars running CNG. That's why I used the word fear. So really? There is no chance it would mix? That's very nice. When its shifting, it just seems that its going to mix now and then there would be nothing we can do.

Also, I heard from someone that if in a non-efi car, the gas and petrol mix up, you can open the air filter and it petrol will evaporate away. But in EFI if this happens, you'll have to take the car to a mechanic. Please tell me if this is right.

Regarding how EFI's work.. You see, regardless of how they work, they are definitely not designed for CNG. The cars that have been designed for CNG basically run CNG only, or may be CNG + Propane. They don't have petrol option. And they are designed by engineers at big companies (Ford for example). We cannot compare them with our mechanics. Really.

Regarding the last point of driving 100 kilometers a day. You see that's not always applicable. A cousin of mine has Honda Civic 1.6L and he gets up to 90 Kilometers in one full cylinder. My car is 'cheaper' than this in Petrol. He gets up to 150 Kilometers on Highways. Most big cars get up to 160 Kilometers in one cylinder on highways. So at 160, it becomes about 17 Kilometers/KG (Rs 3.2/KM@ Rs.55/KG). And getting 21 Kilometers/L (Rs 3.5/KM @ Rs. 75/L) is easy in Petrol (at least in Honda City) . You save 0.37/Kilometer with CNG as compared to Petrol.

This way, it will take about.. 108108 Kilometers to Pay off the price of a 40,000 Rupees wali CNG Kit.

That's a lot of time. I drive about 30,000 Kilometers per year. It will take me about 4 years to negate the price of the CNG kit.

Sir u r mistaken on many points, even a petrol driven car requires tuning after every 20,000kms and i get my cng-ed city tuned after 20,000kms too.and it runs perfect even if i stretch it to 25k or even 30k. have u ever opened the maintainence chart for ur car? tappet adjustments and throttle body cleaning required at 20k kms, though many ppl wud just skip it.so dont say that u can run a petrol driven car for long without tuning.a well tuned cng-ed car wud last almost the same as a petrol one.

3) the noise DO NOT increase at all on cng (for new efi cars) though ppl push their car harder on cng when the performance isnt good enough so the car screams, but this is normal.

4) Yes, cng n petrol would NEVER mix,if u want, i can make a video of it and show u.u just press the button once n it shifts to cng frm petrol widout a hiccup. and there is no mid point where both fuels are closed, its direct conversion frm one fuel to another.i wonder who this SOMEONE is who is mis guiding u, but u dont need to take a fuel mixed carby car to mechanic at all.the car wud easily start after 3-4 selfs.may be it will do missing for a kilometer or two, but wud eventually come back to the original position. fuel mixing is a normal thing, happens almost everyday with everyone having carby cars.

5) there ARE some cars which have CNG plus PETROL option.theres a merc which has cng n petrol both side by side ( i ll post pix, wait). Efi engines are easier to run on cng then carb.and may be u dont know, cng kits for efi are not the same as those for carby.efi kits have advancers n emulators to control things, so dont think cng kits r just a stupid think that u put into ur engine.

as for economy, cng sure is a device for economy and it delivers it too.for ppl who drive less, they may chose not to install it for for ppl like me who drive more then 100kms a day certainly need it.

[Temojin]

@Bilal yusrat, mate eik to bhai naraz bohat jaldi ho jata hai. You simply tried to convert an easy comment into something which would ignite a big discussion with lots of irrelevant remarks.
The people at Honda centre don't know much as compared to real ustaads out there. And by the by, japanese technicians are never there to attend you but local. Innit?
Even if your car ends up mixing both CNG and gasoline, there is no harm done at all.
About the mileage issues and all, my car is 1.6 vtec and gives 120-140 in Lahore, mostly in the northern part of it which is congested as the word claims and on highways, I once went 190 kms with a badly tuned one, after getting it tuned and before getting the tires balanced (a bit wobbly), traveling at 150 kph for 70 kilometers, only Rs. 190 worth of CNG was spent, had I drove at 90-100 KPH, it would have had been much better. This was all to encounter a bit of reasoning that you have provided while discussing with ahmed. People can't afford patrol on a daily basis and that is simple, innit my mate And CNG never ruins an engine, its the driving style and the way one takes care of his vehicle's engine that counts at the end.
And at the end, my mate, when someone comes easy at you, try to reciprocate in the same manner rather trying to impose self created seemingly intelligent answers.
Cheers mate.

[VCheng]

Guys: Just a suggestion for now: Please make comments related to the ISSUE being discussed, and not the PERSON. Thanks!

[BilalYusrat]

@Bilal yusrat, mate eik to bhai naraz bohat jaldi ho jata hai. You simply tried to convert an easy comment into something which would ignite a big discussion with lots of irrelevant remarks.
The people at Honda centre don't know much as compared to real ustaads out there. And by the by, japanese technicians are never there to attend you but local. Innit?
Even if your car ends up mixing both CNG and gasoline, there is no harm done at all.
About the mileage issues and all, my car is 1.6 vtec and gives 120-140 in Lahore, mostly in the northern part of it which is congested as the word claims and on highways, I once went 190 kms with a badly tuned one, after getting it tuned and before getting the tires balanced (a bit wobbly), traveling at 150 kph for 70 kilometers, only Rs. 190 worth of CNG was spent, had I drove at 90-100 KPH, it would have had been much better. This was all to encounter a bit of reasoning that you have provided while discussing with ahmed. People can't afford patrol on a daily basis and that is simple, innit my mate And CNG never ruins an engine, its the driving style and the way one takes care of his vehicle's engine that counts at the end.
And at the end, my mate, when someone comes easy at you, try to reciprocate in the same manner rather trying to impose self created seemingly intelligent answers.
Cheers mate.

So you're getting up to 190 in 1.6 civic? That's excellent. I don't know of any one getting this. Infact, one person I know has Civic 1.6 (2003 or 4 I think) automatic transmission, he fills the tank to top (for about 480 rupees) and goes from Risalpur to Peshawar and back. And when he's back, CNG is finished. This about 100 kilometers total distance. Though in Peshawar the traffic is real bad, but hey?

I'm not very well versed with vtec, or vti or exi civics. What I do know, is that all the people I know of who own a civic 1.6 hardly get 140 - 150 KMs on highways, and get about 80-90 in local. That's not just one person. I mean about 3 or 4 people.

[BilalYusrat]

@Bilal yusrat, mate eik to bhai naraz bohat jaldi ho jata hai. You simply tried to convert an easy comment into something which would ignite a big discussion with lots of irrelevant remarks.
The people at Honda centre don't know much as compared to real ustaads out there. And by the by, japanese technicians are never there to attend you but local. Innit?
Even if your car ends up mixing both CNG and gasoline, there is no harm done at all.
About the mileage issues and all, my car is 1.6 vtec and gives 120-140 in Lahore, mostly in the northern part of it which is congested as the word claims and on highways, I once went 190 kms with a badly tuned one, after getting it tuned and before getting the tires balanced (a bit wobbly), traveling at 150 kph for 70 kilometers, only Rs. 190 worth of CNG was spent, had I drove at 90-100 KPH, it would have had been much better. This was all to encounter a bit of reasoning that you have provided while discussing with ahmed. People can't afford patrol on a daily basis and that is simple, innit my mate And CNG never ruins an engine, its the driving style and the way one takes care of his vehicle's engine that counts at the end.
And at the end, my mate, when someone comes easy at you, try to reciprocate in the same manner rather trying to impose self created seemingly intelligent answers.
Cheers mate.

Regarding mechanics: You guys mostly miss the replies in between your post and the response. I wrote above (and I'm writing it again here) that I am not at all advocating the Honda guys. They are not my mamo ka baita why would I be on their side? I was just suggesting that its only reasonable to run the car on factory settings for as long as it is possible. May be when my car requires me to tune it (even on Petrol) I might give a thought to putting CNG as well. I wouldn't take the car to get it tuned if it doesn't ask me to get it tuned. In my personal opinion, this is a very good practice.

I have not tried to be rude with any one in my entire history of discussion on Pakwheels. People assume that. I have written this a good couple of times in my responses too that people assume I am being rude only because I don't write 'hahaha' or 'heheheh' or LOLX kind of stuff... ROFL.. and the list goes on. I don't use smilies so extensively, as some other people may be?

When I say it wasn't difficult to understand, I didn't mean "Tumhara demag kharab hai." I actually meant: "Hey, its not difficult to understand." You assumed I was being rude.

You know if my statements were actually rude, had I ever use abusive language or swear on the forum, I would have been banned along time ago. I don't know what's wrong with everyone, why do people end up assuming I am being rude with them? I should probably put pink panther's picture on my avatar to let people come with a different paradigm.

[han1911]

my PIJRO gives 6 to 8 km per liter with ac is that good on 70 or 80km/h or not

[VCheng]

This is my second time saying this: Please talk about the ISSUE and NOT the PERSONS making the posts.