Opening doors to India: Trade liberalisation must be gradual says automaker

[DesiBoy]

Without competition, how can there be improvement?

Please embrace change instead of rejecting or fear change.
Be Positive!!

Agree with you. Change is the key

[STUNNER]

There can always be a win-win situation and not win-lose situation!

For people who have the view of not opening the door to competition, than please stop complaining that the local manufacturers are producing low quality cars! Because thats what you guys want.

Without competition, how can there be improvement?

Please embrace change instead of rejecting or fear change.
Be Positive!! We are already at the worse, can it still be worse?

Since Independent till now, have our economy ever been good???

If you can produce a win-win situation that would be great. But I hope you live by the lines of reality and I dont see a win-win situation. So as per trade policy, what are you expecting? In the auto sector, you would just see Indian cars in our market. You would have after sales service, dealerships, marketing, spare parts dealing and stuff like that. Previously government had plan with Yamaha to put a plant here, and that is what competition is and our industry kept crying cuz they dont want to improve and cant compete like this (I dont know where that plan went.....).

Alternatively when you look up to China you always expect them to invest in infrastructure for such kind of projects. That would be great. If India sets up plants/assembly lines here (which I dont know why they would) it would be great and you can have that win-win kind of situation. Other wise killing local industry for sake of competition is a selfish option. I understand local cars are crappy, they need competition. Indian cars in Pakistan wont have very different business model compared to car bulks that are already being imported (expect that now our government would have proper business line to feed upon).

Just my opinion, this artificial competition wont help for long.

[dr3vil]

LOL classic indo pak fight
plus may i add this was just govt trying to get more $$$$ from local Assemblers so no indian car coming here i
m not a hatter but my personal opinion i want old JDM cars back EG9 Ae 86 etc so india has no car like that

[chinyoti]

^ Yeah, keep driving Ae86 for ur entire life while the world goes ahead. Just because u dont wana import from India. keep it up.

[RAGERACE]

it is very very good if indo pak trade opens because it will provide equal opportunity for both to acheive positions in market. India may be good in automotive sector and we may be in textile sector and other fields and it do encourage competition in the market which will create vast choices for consumers (CITIZENS) at end. and WELFARE OF CITIZENS is the main priority to any country.

And as far as STATUS OF MUSLIMS IN INDIA is concerned, i can say that they have equal opportunities in all area of life as other citizens, my relatives lives in there and they are quite happy and enjoys friendly relations with others belonging to other religions.

we have to see people first as a human, and all are equally respectable.

[bilal4g15]

We simply know this:

Ay Tair E Lahoti, us rizq say mout achi
Jis rizq say aati ho parvaz mein kotahi

I think we should move toward China and Iran as their technology is much better than our eastern neighbour, Secondly they r positive about us but not india, as is clear from Afghanistan and Kashmir.

this option can only be exercised when there is Flag of Pakistan on the Lal Kila of Dehli

[majedkhan]

Boys Boys !! plz grow up.
Lets go and watch RA ONE 1st and than continue our tirade.
By the way ! when is it coming on our screens.

[kamee4u]

I favor the trade between india and pakistan but on equal bases not just we buy indian product and let the trade surplus increase ,the only problem when some one offer our trade minister a 20+ bride he let the traffic one way:P

[onlyfaith]

sorry to bust the bubble of hope for some friends but economy doesnt follow the way you guys think...

if we cant manage to reduce the JDM cars price while their import is open how can we expect the government not to impose tax on the Indian cars..

Quality Cars are much cheaper in Japan rather than India, a car that costs abt 3000US$ in Japan auctions is sold in Pakistan for around 10000US$ and more, after adding up all the taxes and transportation charges.
transportation charges dont contribute too mch to the increased price of cars..however the original price of cars imported from India will be more than if that car is imported from Japan.. So whats the use then..Just a lollipop for the sake of news only..

For the consumers what is required is a price reduction in he price of cars be it India or Guinea-Bissaue,

even if this trade policy comes into practice the price of cars will be too high so whose gonna buy them then:S.. yes i agree the price of Indegenous Indian cars will be a bit low but just imagine whose gonna buy Tata Nano for 4 lakhs or more here, after the taxes, if they can get Mehran for 5 lakhs, considering the performance of Indian cars.. viewers are advised to google for Indian quality issues on their car forums..:o
in the current scenario price reduction after implementation of this policy seems a dream, far from reality..

[nickatnite]

sorry to bust the bubble of hope for some friends but economy doesnt follow the way you guys think...

if we cant manage to reduce the JDM cars price while their import is open how can we expect the government not to impose tax on the Indian cars..

Quality Cars are much cheaper in Japan rather than India, a car that costs abt 3000US$ in Japan auctions is sold in Pakistan for around 10000US$ and more, after adding up all the taxes and transportation charges.
transportation charges dont contribute too mch to the increased price of cars..however the original price of cars imported from India will be more than if that car is imported from Japan.. So whats the use then..Just a lollipop for the sake of news only..

For the consumers what is required is a price reduction in he price of cars be it India or Guinea-Bissaue,

even if this trade policy comes into practice the price of cars will be too high so whose gonna buy them then:S.. yes i agree the price of Indegenous Indian cars will be a bit low but just imagine whose gonna buy Tata Nano for 4 lakhs or more here, after the taxes, if they can get Mehran for 5 lakhs, considering the performance of Indian cars.. viewers are advised to google for Indian quality issues on their car forums..:o
in the current scenario price reduction after implementation of this policy seems a dream, far from reality..

Sad commentary on the state of mind of the educated Pakistani. This trade policy if it happens is not about cars, it is about TRADE.

This is about an Indian manufacturer of any product investing in an ancillary plant to source components( due to exchange rate differential as in NAFTA) that would benefit people of both countries, for eg resulting in more avenues for employment and upliftment for the average man on the Pak side and more profits and less prices on the Indian side. It isn't easy catering to a populace of 1.2 billion with a middle class of 350 million and growing with the same purchasing power as the US middle class. This is the perfect moment for Pakistan to cash in. But, alas, it isn't going to happen and in a way i'm glad. Reading some of the comments here have made even a moderate like me disgusted and alarmed. Someone else said "flag on Lal Qila!":o. You didn't say it but you meant the same thing.

Without the strike at the Swift plant Maruti-Suzuki had more than 120,000 booking s for the new Swift. Figure that one out as a manufacturer and work out a timetable to get those cars to the customer without losing reputation. The strike has only added to the delay. If Maruti-Suzuki could source components from a Pak source it would help in speeding up the production process and better than this if Maruti-Suzuki could manufacture the new Swift in Pak for the Indian market then?. Think about this my friends. GM or Ford don't manufacture it's entire lineup in the US. Atleast half are sourced from Canada and Mexico. This means the same models are sold in these countries too. Think about all this again.

I hope that at the least one to one friendships and cultural/travel exchanges happen first to change the mindset before anything else.

[STUNNER]

Trade agreements are supposed to do good and I hope it goes well here (if it happens). Im particularly not favoring the auto sector (just as I wont favor media) as its gonna kick in Pakistani-auto sector's ba**s after some time. However people really need to learn ethics, PWers! You can discuss and argue political and personal issues on forums made for this purpose, I would frankly tell im VERY harsh on Indian agenda (political and social) regarding Pakistan, but this is PW!!!! Learn what to say when to say how to say, it would help some folks in future.

[plague27]

I think changing ones mindset only happens over time,but even then you can't please everybody.an educated person can also be close minded,some people are just intolerant to any opinion/way of life other then their own.
coming to the topic I hope I goes through,although Pakistan will have more to gain then India.and if Indian cars do end up here is rather buy them then local crap quality.

[UsmanAnsari]

USA has to be the biggest enemy to China, its is even said that US is penetrating this region to control China! even then GM remains the second best seller in the huge Chinese car market... why?

[plague27]

because gm makes decent cars and younger Chinese generation like American products.
what do think obama sits in his office with his security council to discuss defeating China by selling American cars? and with that theory China should be ruling us aswell.
It's just good business decision that's what companies and countries do to succeed.
don't get caught up in conspiracy theories because that's all they are.

[onlyfaith]

^^^
@usman Ansari
cheap labour for manufacturer and quality cars for a good price for the consumer my friend, thats the reason..

[chinyoti]

Sad commentary on the state of mind of the educated Pakistani. This trade policy if it happens is not about cars, it is about TRADE.

This is about an Indian manufacturer of any product investing in an ancillary plant to source components( due to exchange rate differential as in NAFTA) that would benefit people of both countries, for eg resulting in more avenues for employment and upliftment for the average man on the Pak side and more profits and less prices on the Indian side. It isn't easy catering to a populace of 1.2 billion with a middle class of 350 million and growing with the same purchasing power as the US middle class. This is the perfect moment for Pakistan to cash in. But, alas, it isn't going to happen and in a way i'm glad. Reading some of the comments here have made even a moderate like me disgusted and alarmed. Someone else said "flag on Lal Qila!":o. You didn't say it but you meant the same thing.

Without the strike at the Swift plant Maruti-Suzuki had more than 120,000 booking s for the new Swift. Figure that one out as a manufacturer and work out a timetable to get those cars to the customer without losing reputation. The strike has only added to the delay. If Maruti-Suzuki could source components from a Pak source it would help in speeding up the production process and better than this if Maruti-Suzuki could manufacture the new Swift in Pak for the Indian market then?. Think about this my friends. GM or Ford don't manufacture it's entire lineup in the US. Atleast half are sourced from Canada and Mexico. This means the same models are sold in these countries too. Think about all this again.

I hope that at the least one to one friendships and cultural/travel exchanges happen first to change the mindset before anything else.

Thats sooper true, Like i said, trade between both the countries would only create socio economic development. Which is beneficial for both the countries.

But since we know its beneficial, thoose "xyz" sources they dont want it to happen.

People having ******** in there minds keep craping about it,

yeh kerleinge, wo kerleinge, Lekin India/Pakistan se nae leinge. Duh... ul pay a zillion more for the same thing to develop another country rather then making strong and better relation ship with your neighbour.

True that its not only about cars, Theres whole lot world beyond cars too.

[onlyfaith]

Sad commentary on the state of mind of the educated Pakistani. .

wow, you completely missed my point of view
OK i ll make it simple for you trade policies dont become successful cause of Love or hate.. there are few basic laws and quality/price reduction r two of them.. Give me a quality manufactured Indian car (if there is any) in low price and i ll be the first one to buy that car..
sorry if i hurt your ever green patriotic feelings for your country's economy however facts should be put straight no matter what the cost.. i was only presenting my views on this trade policy how it will affect the car prices and the quality issues.. nothing bad abt your country was said ..but since you ve quoted my reply, that too with with your inborn eternal feelings for us,i ll try to answer some of your emotions here one by one hope you come up with a better reply this time and that too with figures as to how this policy will affect Pakistani and Indian Market..

btw you should thank God that the mods are so tolerant to allow repeatedly intimidiating statements from you guys and not making a fuss outta it. this is exactly what the educated Pakistani mentality is! not making issues outta pity things..(H)

This trade policy if it happens is not about cars, it is about TRADE .

would you mind please noticing the title of the thread..

It isn't easy catering to a populace of 1.2 billion with a middle class of 350 million and growing with the same purchasing power as the US middle class .

i highly doubt this statement,source please???

can you plz provide GDP and GNP figures for US and India.. can you also quote figures for the Chineeses economy as the chineese market is leading the car manufacturing sector. why shouldnt Pakistan give free access to chineeses cars rather then Indian cars, please provide authenticated figures??

This is the perfect moment for Pakistan to cash in .

like i said only if prices are down and the product is good in terms of quality only then we can seriously think of a practical policy rather than this on papers

GM or Ford don't manufacture it's entire lineup in the US. Atleast half are sourced from Canada and Mexico. This means the same models are sold in these countries too.

GM and Ford manufactures mainly in Mexico and Canada basically cause of 3 main facors ie cheap labour,price and demand of that market for those cars.. so truely speaking do you think Indian cars stand a chance here where peole dont want to go beyond Mehran.. even Cherry (a chineees company) and Santro ve been given a very tough time by the market mindset, dynamics and monoply.. and in 1300cc-1500cc cars why would the people want Indian cars if there is not much of a price difference..

I hope that at the least one to one friendships and cultural/travel exchanges happen first to change the mindset before anything else.

plz be asuured that every one wants friendship, no on wants war.. criticism specially if its not personal and is involving economics should be answered positively with facts not with emotions..(H)

[nickatnite]

wow, you completely missed my point of view
OK i ll make it simple for you trade policies dont become successful cause of Love or hate.. there are few basic laws and quality/price reduction is one of them.. Give me a quality manufactured Indian car (if there is any) in low price and i ll be the first one to buy that car..
sorry if i hurt your ever green patriotic feelings for your country's economy however facts should be put straight no matter what the cost.. i was only presenting my views on this trade policy how it will affect the car prices and the quality issues.. nothing bad abt your country was said ..but since you ve quoted my reply, that too with with your inborn eternal feelings for us,i ll try to answer some of your emotions here one by one hope you come up with a better reply this time and that too with figures as to how this policy will affect Pakistani and Indian Market..

btw you should thank God that the mods are so tolerant to allow repeatedly intimidiating statements from you guys and not making a fuss outta it. this is exactly what the educated Pakistani mentality is! not making issues outta pity things..(H)

would you mind please noticing the title of the thread..

i highly doubt this statement,source please???

can you plz provide GDP and GNP figures for US and India.. can you also quote figures for the Chineeses economy as the chineese market is leading the car manufacturing sector. why shouldnt Pakistan give free access to chineeses cars rather then Indian cars, please provide authenticated figures??

like i said only if prices are down and the product is good in terms of quality only then we can seriously think of a practical policy rather than this on papers

GM and Ford manufactures mainly in Mexico and Canada basically cause of 3 main facors ie cheap labour,price and demand of that market for those cars.. so truely speaking do you think Indian cars stand a chance here where peole dont want to go beyond Mehran.. even Cherry (a chineees company) and Santro ve been given a very tough time by the market mindset, dynamics and monoply.. and in 1300cc-1500cc cars why would the people want Indian cars if there is not much of a price difference..

plz be asuured that every one wants friendship, no on wants war.. criticism specilly if its not personal and is involving economics should be answered positively with facts not with emotions..(H)

My mind is abuzz with the roar of the F1 motor this week, but i'll try and answer your post as clearly as possible. India Pak trade is not just about cars. There isn't a single Chinese or Indian car sold in either countries but trade between India and China is at USD100 billion currently and growing.

http://www.indiachinachamber.com/

India is currently the world's 10th largest economy in nominal/real GDP terms and 4th largest in PPP GDP. Please feel free to search all over the net or refer UN , Govt. and world Central Bank data for the same.

http://www.economywatch.com/economies-in-top/?page=full

Please click on the links below to learn more about trade benefitting diverse nations across continents:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India-Brazil-South_Africa_Dialogue_Forum

The Suzuki Swift sold in the UK andother world markets is made in India.The Suzuki A-Star, Alto too. The Nissan Micra sold worldwide is made in India. The VW Polo sold worldwide is made in India. The Hyundai Santro, i-10 and i-20 sold worldwide is made in India. The Ford Figo and Fiesta sold worldwide is made in India. This is what my Indian F1 GP buzzed brain can think of at this moment. You can search for more info on India's car exports at leisure and i'm not including any Indian manufacturers in this list.

http://www.siamindia.com/ ( for info on Indian car exports)

Regarding the Indian middle class, click on the links below:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/global-middle-class.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/09/21/india-likely-to-replace-japan-as-worlds-third-largest-economy/

Cheers!

[onlyfaith]

skewed and irrelevant facts wont make me or any one else getting attention of your point of view, you ve to do better than this..i ll try to lift the haze of uncertainity from people minds with the below mentioned points..

Man.. you were supposed to say something about the parity of Indian and USA middle class:P

Global Middle Class
^^
this one is a blog expressing personal opinion..

India Likely To Replace Japan As World's Third Largest Economy - Forbes

^^
this one is although authenticated magazine only expresses the opinion of Indian macroeconomist.. Its not the magezine's personal opinion(H)

India China Chamber of Commerce & Industry

^^
you can trade with whoever you want to. if India is looking forward to China for economy thats good then for bothof you..

The World?s Largest Economies | Economy Watch
^^
my frnd i was asking for a sane comparison of US and Indian middle class as you said were equal,, but this is just PPP GDP (depends on how you define it..

my answer from the same forbes magezine
http://www.forbes.com/2011/04/12/forbes-india-hillary-clinton-black-carbon-stoves-indian-kitchens.html

Mind looking at this
List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^ from these figures India is 129 and Pakistan is 137, like i said depends on how you define it.. also my figure shows the amount of wealth for an average person and your figure shows the total wealth.. USSR also had a quite high figure of total wealth then but the people were poor(H)

BRICS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IBSA Dialogue Forum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^
BRIC , India Brazil South Africa forum,
whats the relevance of putting it in here..

we ve got trade agreements with countries too..
but you were supposed to say something about the middleclass, USA, economy:S

SIAM India - Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers | Vehicle Manufacturers Association in India.
now this site shows some figures..however total no of vehicles exported to a specific country are missing

and abt Suzuki Swift that is a Japeneese car brand..you may export it to UK but it doesnt represent the indian Industry quality cars manufacturing indegenous capability.. same is true for Polo, figgo,fiesta,santro and alto(H)

after seeing your

but my friend you ve totally gone off topic i ll make it more plain for you hope you get it this time,,
i was just asking how do you think a Pakistani consumer will buy Indian made Japeneese cars and not Pakistani made Japeneese cars when they are already manufactured here, when the price will be the same or more.. we are only left with Indian manufactured cars those too after implementatation of taxes will be be too dear to buy..

cheers(H)

[nickatnite]

skewed and irrelevant facts wont make me or any one else getting attention of your point of view, you ve to do better than this..i ll try to lift the haze of uncertainity from people minds with the below mentioned points..

Man.. you were supposed to say something about the parity of Indian and USA middle class:P

Global Middle Class
^^
this one is a blog expressing personal opinion..

India Likely To Replace Japan As World's Third Largest Economy - Forbes

^^
this one is although authenticated magazine only expresses the opinion of Indian macroeconomist.. Its not the magezine's personal opinion(H)

India China Chamber of Commerce & Industry

^^
you can trade with whoever you want to. if India is looking forward to China for economy thats good then for bothof you..

The World?s Largest Economies | Economy Watch
^^
my frnd i was asking for a sane comparison of US and Indian middle class as you said were equal,, but this is just PPP GDP (depends on how you define it..

my answer from the same forbes magezine
http://www.forbes.com/2011/04/12/forbes-india-hillary-clinton-black-carbon-stoves-indian-kitchens.html

Mind looking at this
List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^ from these figures India is 129 and Pakistan is 137, like i said depends on how you define it.. also my figure shows the amount of wealth for an average person and your figure shows the total wealth.. USSR also had a quite high figure of total wealth then but the people were poor(H)

BRICS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

IBSA Dialogue Forum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

^^
BRIC , India Brazil South Africa forum,
whats the relevance of putting it in here..

we ve got trade agreements with countries too..
but you were supposed to say something about the middleclass, USA, economy:S

SIAM India - Society of Indian Automobile Manufacturers | Vehicle Manufacturers Association in India.
now this site shows some figures..however total no of vehicles exported to a specific country are missing

and abt Suzuki Swift that is a Japeneese car brand..you may export it to UK but it doesnt represent the indian Industry quality cars manufacturing indegenous capability.. same is true for Polo, figgo,fiesta,santro and alto(H)

after seeing your

but my friend you ve totally gone off topic i ll make it more plain for you hope you get it this time,,
i was just asking how do you think a Pakistani consumer will buy Indian made Japeneese cars and not Pakistani made Japeneese cars when they are already manufactured here, when the price will be the same or more.. we are only left with Indian manufactured cars those too after implementatation of taxes will be be too dear to buy..

cheers(H)

Re: Indian economy, this is as far as i'll take bait:P , below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

Roll with it.

i was just asking how do you think a Pakistani consumer will buy Indian made Japeneese cars and not Pakistani made Japeneese cars when they are already manufactured here

:oYou got only three Japanese manufacturers with two majors under licence to a local partner each producing only one or two models. PakSuzukis cars should be on display in a museum.lol

Can i interest you in a factory issue made in India by Nissan Motor Corp., 2012 Micra hatchback and 2012 Sunny sedan?. Or a Honda BRIO?. Or an exclusive to India Toyota Liva hatchback(similar in dimension to Yaris) or an Etios sedan?. May i offer you a 2012 Suzuki Swift, Suzuki Ritz, Suzuki SX4, Suzuki A-Star, Suzuki D'Zire and many others i can't remember?. I'm sticking with Japanese. Do you manufacture Mazda and Subaru cars in Pak?. All Japanese cars i've listed are made in India 100% ground up, offered brand new from factory and still cheaper at current list price with exchange rate than a 2-5 yr import car price you pay for currently.These are manufactured both for domestic and export markets by the respective manufacturers.

If you prefer, i can offer you German, Italian, French, British and American marque/branded cars made or assembled in India with local components at less price than what you pay for used import cars of dubious distinction with import tax thru dubious dealers with no authorized service backup. I can offer you that too if you would allow me access to your market. I can also invest in the auto ancillary industry but that's for another discussion. I'm interested in how i can leverage your lower cost of production, cheap labor due to exchange rate differential to my advantage provided you can assure me of a stable environment.I will in turn facilitate access to my market for goods and services you have on offer. Tax concessions on both sides must apply. That's where i'm at.

Cheers!(A)

p.s. visit respective manufacturers website for breakup of export and domestic models produced in India. For example,

http://www.hyundai.com/in/en/main/