The EV Thread. Fully Electric Vehicles Exclusive Discussion

[pwuser167550015690]

Nishat? They're probably among one of the biggest conglomerates in Pakistan and already own Hyundai.

I'm assuming the reason they've established another subsidiary company is because Hyundai Nishat is 40% owned by Hyundai so Nishat can't start selling Chery vehicles under that arm.

Chery has partnered with different companies locally for their sub-brands.

Omoda and Jaecoo are with Nishat
Jetour is with United
Chery (brand) are with Master (Changan) - though this announcement only mentioned NEVs so not sure what happens to ICE vehicles that were sold in partnership with Gandhara.

[mgalaxy3]

Not Nishat.

I’m wondering how big and how reputable are these weird sounding EVs Omoda and Jaecoo what’s their perception in China itself and global, if any global presence.

It also seems to be a terrible strategy by Chery - they’re not launching with one strong and big group. Just fragmenting their vehicles and partnering with weak groups.

[pwuser167550015690]

Nishat and Master are pretty strong.

Nishat is well Nishat and Mansha family have enough of a market across various industries (and enough political connections) to keep their assets afloat.

Master has been in the industry a long time, being in the commercial vehicle segment before partnering with Changan. They've arguably been the most successful assembler to bring in a Chinese brand and making it mainstream. In fact, all 4 Changan models they've offered so far have been very successful in their respective segments.

Their EV efforts with Deepal do seem like a bit underwhelming but that's likely why they partnered with Chery as well to bring more NEV products. That said, I've been to different Changan dealerships twice in the past couple of months and both days I saw people booking the the S07.

[pwuser167550015690]

As for Jaecoo and Omoda, these are brands* Chery uses in oversees markets. They're not sold within China and usually they're mostly rebadges of some other Chery models optimized for export markets. They might sound weird, but you'd see them all over the middle-east for example with dealerships peppered all over.

---

*Chery is one of the largest manufacturers in China, and like most large Chinese automakers, they sell their cars under various sub-brands because of the sheer number of different models they have. This also means that each brand can have a distribution (or assembly) agreement with different groups in a country and still be able to offer exclusivity.

Some of the popular Chery brands include:

• Chery
• Jetour
• Fulwin
• Exeed
• Luxeed
• iCar
• Omoda
• Jaecoo
• Exlantix

[jsm0098]

Yesterday i went to the show room of Dongfeng Box by Chawla group. Its located inside the Ball room event complex on raiwind road Lahore. There is no sign, no board, nothing. The gate of event complex is half closed. You cant know its inside unless you have called them and talked to them.

Inside, there are 3 cars available. One for test drive. The sales manager guy pheww..he was wearing a tight black jeans with leaopard print silk tea shirt with opened upper button and to be frank he reeked of weed/hash out of his mouth while i was test driving. I could be wrong but hey telling what i felt. anyway back to the car.

No its not bigger than Swift, at least not in length. Quality is not that high as i was expecting, the door and dash board are all hard cheap plastic, finishing is no better than the swift. Interior "leather" is okay i guess but nothing extraordinary. The electric seats make a loud sound while being adjusted, the test drive Unit was making exceptionally loud noise and the sales guy said "its not been assembled correctly/people used it roughly etc etc" The seats are very soft but not bigger than swift's. The arm rest area and wireless charging area looks and feels like cheap material. Wireless charging is very slow and worst for ur phone, it heats up unless you have put your phone precisely on the coils which we cant see.

The display screen is big but its was struggling in the direct sunlight for display, it was a bit difficult to read as the brightness couldnt resist the sunlight. The automatic parking function is just a gimmick, the sales guy couldnt rotate the parking logo on the screen, even i couldnt.
On the drive side, it was okay to drive, not the acceleration i hoped for but it was Okay. The hurdle was that you can only drive inside the event complex parking. He said we were not allowed to go outside so i couldnt test its suspension properly and brakes either.

The back seats are bit smaller, you will struggle for thigh support. No arm rest or rare AC vent or charging ports. Trunk space is okay for the size of the car. So overall experience was not so good. I was expecting something better for a 7 million EV car. They really have to up their game in order to survive.

[pwuser167550015690]

No its not bigger than Swift, at least not in length.

I should preface that I have only seen the car on road and not test driven (or even touched) it, but:

• Swift (3rd gen) (L x W x H): 3,845 mm x 1,735 mm x 1,500 mm, Wheelbase: 2,450 mm
• Nammi 01 (L x W x H): 4,030 mm x 1,810 mm x 1,570 mm, Wheelbase: 2,660 mm

So on paper, it's bigger than the Swift we currently have in Pakistan in every dimension, and quite significantly as well. Maybe looking at them side-by-side might provide better context?

I was expecting something better for a 7 million EV car. They really have to up their game in order to survive.

I seriously don't think they plan on taking any marketshare. It's just some random group trying to make a quick buck on the back of the EV policy with relaxed import restrictions and virtually no competition in the segment.

Now, it is more feature rich than most other cars we have in Pakistan in this price bracket (BR-V, HR-V for instance, but they're all ICE so it's not really a good comparison). Still, I don't think anything in this segment offers a full ADAS suite, Heated and Ventilated seats with Memory, 360 cameras, voice control, fully digital instrument cluster with wireless Android Auto and Car Play etc.

This segment will only see good competition and actual sales momentum if BYD (with Dolphin) or Geely (with a global Xingyuan variant) launch with a competitive price, but both seem more interested in the higher end of the market for the foreseeable future.

[pwuser164163568474]

Now, it is more feature rich than most other cars we have in Pakistan in this price bracket (BR-V, HR-V for instance, but they're all ICE so it's not really a good comparison). Still, I don't think anything in this segment offers a full ADAS suite, Heated and Ventilated seats with Memory, 360 cameras, voice control, fully digital instrument cluster with wireless Android Auto and Car Play etc.

I agree with all instances, but when someone looks at options for 7 million a used MG HS comes up or a Peugeot 2008 with many of these features. This really is pushing everyone's mindset of what a feature loaded car should be when in reality these cars just have bad resale and bring more value due to that. Nonetheless this isn't a fair comparison by any means with new cars vs old and ICE vs EVs.

[mirza.ghalib]

The much-hyped 2025-2030 EV policy is finally out.

https://www.brecorder.com/news/40368626/govt-launches-national-electric-vehicle-policy-2025-30

On first look, its exactly what was expected, i.e. nothing much, except overambitious green-washed targets (30% BEV market share by 2030, for example, without there ostensibly being the means to achieve such high numbers). Would love to hear what others think.

[mgalaxy3]

Yeah.. if there are no incentives like zero tax zero duties on ALL EVs plus subsidies on EV chargers and infrastructure and low electricity prices.. we’re not getting to even 5% by 2030.

Rock solid EV cars with good range at around 3 to 3.5 million mark also have to be introduced with zero taxes and duties to reach a bigger market. Right now we only have toys up to 7 mil range from China . Similar to Prince Pearl and United Bravo era.

[m.aamirsher]

New Number Plate Policy for Electric Vehicles Introduced in Punjab

[mirza.ghalib]

And as if selling any number of government-subsidized electric three and 2 wheel vehicles can lead to magic 30% figure in 5 years

[mgalaxy3]

Yes most focus seems to be on two and three wheelers for some reason.

[pwuser167550015690]

Because they are the vast majority of our traffic and annual vehicle sales.

In the current fiscal year so far, PAMA registered manufacturers have sold:

• Passenger Cars: 94,388
• SUVs and Pickups: 31,706
• Trucks and Buses: 4,495
• 2 and 3 wheelers: 1,378,131

So cars + SUVs + pickups + buses + vans + trucks combined are barely 10% of the total vehicles sold in Pakistan. So makes perfect sense to focus on 2 and 3 wheelers, specially because they can mostly be fully produced locally.

[mirza.ghalib]

If the government's focus is on imported fuel savings and ecological considerations, focusing on 2 and 3 wheelers makes little sense as their contribution on both fronts would be on the lower side.

[pwuser167550015690]

Wasn't there an independent study a couple of years ago that said that majority of our emissions and fuel consumption is from 2 and 3 wheelers? I'll try to see if I can find it.

But just looking at the numbers above and doing some quick math, it makes sense to go with 2 and 3 wheelers first, even if we assume 2 and 3 wheelers to be already twice as efficient at burning fuel than other segments, (meaning low emissions and fuel consumption).

I gave a couple of different models the PAMA report up until May and asked them to estimate fuel requirements for each segment based on taking the average tank size and assume that 2 and 3 wheelers get twice the milage from a single tank compared to the actual averages.

All models basically estimated similar scenarios.

I then asked them to estimate total fuel savings based on scenario if either 30% of 2/3 wheelers are converted to EV vs. 75% of all passenger cars, and even then 2 and 3 wheelers showed the most reduction in fuel imports with only 30% being converted to electric.

This obviously isn't scientific at all but numbers to seem to suggest that converting just 30% of 2 or 3 wheelers to EVs yields roughly 1.5 million L more “one-tank” fuel savings than converting 75% of all passenger cars—making the 2/3-wheeler segment the single biggest lever for near-term cuts in imported fuel (on a per-tank basis).

[mirza.ghalib]

That's some impressive extrapolation of data.

The problem would be coming up with a viable and acceptable 2 wheeler EV to reach 30% adoption for new sales. Let's not forget 2 wheel evs were introduced many years back but without any market success as people are reluctant to jump onto 2 wheel evs (the scooter (as against the motorbike form factor) just doesn't appear to cut it for Pakistan market, at least not in the foreseeable future). Also, cost isn't the only factor working against ev adoption (even assuming government chips in with a full subsidy to cover the added cost) as security of the ev battery and motor on a parked motorbike is a question mark (considering how fuel is stolen from parked bikes ), working against mass adoption. I hope the policy takes these factors into account before trying to sell it to the public and the automotive industry.

[mgalaxy3]

Scooters and rickshaws are not going to have any effect on EV cars unfortunately. Nobody buying a 8 mil plus car thinks like “since most scooters are now EV I must get an EV car” …

Scooters will do even with 70 km range.

For EV cars no taxes, range (500km+) and super fast chargers every 80km are the required things ..

[pwuser167550015690]

Nobody buying a 8 mil plus car thinks like “since most scooters are now EV I must get an EV car” …

No one is saying that and both are completely different things. People are free to buy EVs cars and SUVs on their own and there is already a policy in place for that until 2026.

This new policy is primarily aimed at bikes, scooters and rickshaws to drive their adoption since that's what the mass market actually buys and that's what will have the biggest impact.

[ifadey]

Pakistan should learn something from Nepal which is poorest country in South Asia. Currently 70% of their vehicle sales are EVs.

Nepal’s Electric Leapfrog: How This Himalayan Nation Is Leading Global EV Adoption - CleanTechnica

[ifadey]

Podcast: Why Only 1% Pakistanis Own Cars | EVs, Gen Z, and the Future of Driving in Pakistan