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Thread: City iDSI 2005 (Manual) - heating issue! Guidance required.

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    Default City iDSI 2005 (Manual) - heating issue! Guidance required.

    A friend handed me his car (Honda city, 2005, genuine 125k km driven) yesterday to be kept for sometime until he is back from some business abroad.

    I picked the car from G-13 Islamabad and drove 2 km and made a stop at some place. Then drove for another 3 km after 15 min and made a stop in G-11 Markaz. Then using Kashmir Highway, Zero point, Expressway made for home, near Bahria Town.

    Due to heat of the day (around 2:30 pm), obviously the AC was working and MaShaAllah worked exceptionally well. I had to idle at the airport chowk signal for like 5 minute. During this time the car RPM would drop down after like every 2 min and with shudder then rise back to normal (750-800). Except that there was no issue and everything looked OK.

    As the signal turned green and I drop off straight into tight traffic (due to construction of Gulberg interchange), I would have hardly crawled like 100 meters when the car engine suddenly shut down. I immediately turned the AC off and tried to get the engine started but it felt as if the battery was low. I put the hazard lights and kept the car rolling (very slow) thinking that the slope would speed it up and I may need that to dhaka start it. Luckily I was able to do it after 3, 4 tries. I turned on the AC and thank God. I drove another 200-300 m and saw that the RED warning light (for coolant temperature) was flashing. I turned the AC off but to stop at that congested section of road was almost out of question. I kept rolling. The RED warning light kept blinking for like 10-15 seconds and then stopped. I thought may be it was the AC that would be overheating the car. Left it shut down.
    But to my horror, the red light showed up again after few minutes. I thought may be it is the go-slow that is heating and the moment I get some speed, it may cool down a bit due to convection in the radiator. Rest of the way to home (some 5-6 km), I did not run the AC, the red-light would flash after few minutes for few seconds and then go away.
    Finally I reached home. There was no other issue driving the car. I just prayed no serious issue would result.

    Now I was told that the car was recently serviced in detail. The engine cooling system flushed many a time, and then Honda Blue Coolant was used in 50-50 concentration. The car generally was driven in 10 km trips -- that in Islamabad means a drive for 10-20 minute since the place of job and kids school weren't very far away from home.
    The car produces a "goonj" sound at higher RPMs and some people said it is the sound of the "crank". This sound had been there for the last 2 years or more. The car was purchased some 3 years ago by my friend.
    The engine, allegedly has never been opened. The car has no history of reducing oil as well as coolant. No heating issue as well.
    And a good quality T-stat valve was also installed when coolant was put in.

    But when I reached home, opened the hood, it felt quite hot. I checked the expansion bottle, it was full to the brink. After an hour or so, opened the radiator cap to see the vents inside the radiator and no coolant/liquid. The expansion bottle at that time had coolant less than half the bottle.
    Also found the battery dry so topped it up with some hot water.
    Also topped up the radiator with water. Turned on the car, found no leaks with a little inspection above and under the engine bay. Turned ON the AC. Both the fans started rotating. The AC blew chilled air. Turned off the AC, both the fans stopped.
    Left the car idling, even accelerated the engine twice or thrice but without the AC, the fan did not run, which, I believe should have, because the car was not cool when we added water and in 4-5 min idling, with AC ON then OFF, the water must have reached the operating temperature.
    The FAN did not run without the AC throughout our test, nor did the RED light blink.
    The person with me suspects the temperature sensor -- but I do not agree with his diagnostic since the red light blinking meant the temperature sensor did its job. For some odd reason the radiator fan, however, does not rotate. Though both starts rotating immediately as one turns on the AC. They also stop as soon as one turns off the AC.

    My understanding is the coolant has to flow in the engine compartment and wherever it has to, and then when sufficiently hot, with the opening of T-stat valve, it passes through the radiator, cools down and keep the merry-go-round flowing!
    When the flow through the radiator does not cool it down to a required temperature, the fan aids this cooling.

    The fan does not do its intended job. Where can the problem be? Where to look at? I intend to work the system at home if it remains in easily workable domain. I have the assistance of my driver who is also a mechanic.

    In the evening, after like 3 hours, I needed to make a short trip to bakery, 1km away. Before starting the car, I opened the radiator cap. Again there was no liquid to be seen in the radiator, whereas previous (3 hours ago) we filled it up, ran the car to see that the fan did not work.

    Next day, after reading some Honda City 2004, 2005 heating issues threads, I decided to check for head-gasket test (as proposed). I opened the radiator cap, filled it up to the top. Started the car and checked the water. I saw no bubbles but the water overflowed a little. No bubbles or shot-up of water could be seen.
    What does this suggest? Anything related to head-gasket?

    Based on a thread on someone's 2004 model heating issue, he seemed to have done everything with the engine and then finally (something which no one had suggested) was done and it fixed it -- water pump was replaced!

    So honestly, I feel, I must check the condition of the water pump before checking for anything else. The engine dip stick shows no milking or anything unusual. The car does not give out any smoke.

    There is but one thing, which in a run today, for 3 km, I did not observe, and that is, no fan rotating without AC.

    Is there any possibility that the T-stat is stuck and not opening? Asking though never heard of it!

    I guess I should check T-stat valve first, then water pump and if they are fine, then worry for anything else.

    PS: Sorry was too descriptive a description. I hope someone suggests something sane and logical to me.


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    for your future reference
    You cannot continue driving a overheating honda
    they blow up gaskets and ruin heads quiet quickly sadly
    u hv been lucky so far

    nd to visit a workshop with mechanic/electrician working together.
    you need to visit them and let them figure why automatic fan is not engaging

    failed experiments at home might ruin someone else car (my 2 cents)

    no offence
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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    Thank you for your comment. You are right. No offense taken.
    The friend is taken in complete confidence and I have been authorized to see what best can be done to the car.
    My opinion about most mechanics is that they too do dumb trouble-shooting and I believe I can be a better trouble shooter than them. Especially ever since I have been in possession of a w202!

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    Since the fan is functional with AC
    It means fan motor is perfectly fine
    Checked connections with thermostat/water temp unit ?
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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    This is one stupid car that does not have a temp gauge.


    Sent from my iPhone 6s using PW Forums
    Your ego is writing cheques, your body can't cash.

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    you can add a gauge yourself
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/mec...ter-temp-gauge


    a friend just sold his idsi 04/05, clocked 190, 000 km's. still had factory coolant in it. radiator/cooling section of the car was untouched
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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    I can vouch for water pump going bad. My city vario is driven 190000kms. Have changed the factory coolant to aftermarket one because 10 years have passed. Waterpump bearing broke down.

    Sent from my Z12 using Tapatalk

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    I am up for water pump too. Weather has turned good so hope to work on it in the evening. Will post findings and results, whatever they are.

    My own City 2005 Manual that I sold last year had 222111 km on odo (I bought it 11 months old) and I do not remember if I would ever look at the radiator or expansion bottle for like 2 years in a row. No engine work, no heating issue, original suspension -- just oil change every 5000 km using Honda exact pack. Not a single heating incident ever. So those who call names to this car really do not do justice.
    I still miss that car. Its usual mileage within city was 14+ with AC and it had one great piece of engine among all cities of the period, I believe!

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    Removed
    Corolla Altis 1.6 2016-to date
    Wagon R VXL 2014-2016

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    Could not find time to get the work done in my presence. Nonetheless, my driver worked on the pump. He called and said, "sir iss kay to parr tootay huway hain"! So it was the pump!
    Pakwheels came to my rescue. An old City 2004 heating thread saved me from a lot of trouble!
    The water/coolant pump going bad logic appealed me, since a bad coolant flow would mean there would be lower pressure after the pump. Lower pressure would make the water within the coolant to evaporate to steam. This high pressure steam would open up the T-stat valve and get to the radiator. Since it is not liquid, it won't be pulled by gravity and pressure to flow through the radiator vents. Well, at least after a while when there would had too much steam collected on top to radiator.
    This pressure will make the radiator cap spring to push back and make any coolant present their to be pushed to the expansion bottle (which I always found full after a drive, whereas the top vents as seen from the radiator cap hole always dry)! In a small drive some 300-400 mL of coolant dried up -- actually the steam would have escaped through the expansion bottle which by no means is air tight (and it is good that it is not. In fact it is deliberately kept as the weakest point to avoid coolant passages exploding).
    The mysterious fan not working, suggested (to me, at least) that there wasn't liquid coming in contact with coolant temperature sensor (I do not know where it actually is). The air/steam that comes in contact with it make it send back erroneous readings, baffling the logic to turn on the fan (wild guess).
    If the fan, after replacing water/coolant pump started behaving fine, it would mean the explanation mustn't be discardable. If, however, it did not function properly, I will check the module that controls it.

    Any hint as to where these sensor(s), module(s) and connector(s) would be located?

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    It was this thread by @Fahad.Ayub, that proved to be my saviour in that the first thing I suspected was faulty.
    https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/cit...ty-overheating

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    In my case it all started from a bad corroded water pump and along the way I replaced every single component related to my cars coolant system and the head gasket
    Good to see my thread helped someone

    Sent from my SM-G900F using PW Forums mobile app

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    usually water pumps start to leak when they are done
    instead of figuring out why the automatic fan is not functioning, he took the pump out to start off with
    Amazing!

    intense reverse engineering !
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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    Old and New water pump.
    GMB, Japanese = Rs.2400

    City iDSI 2005 Manual  heating issue! Guidance required -1692724

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    Finally, the new pump fitted. Water filled. Started. Ran on idle. Took on a drive around after asar. I do not think noticed fan running. Nonetheless, the fan auto started back in the porch though with a bit of revving.

    I would like to ensure one thing, somehow though. That is the coolant temperature when the fan starts. I hope it is not too hot. If it is, I guess, the coolant sensor need to be changed.

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    @hash4u:
    I guess this car (Honda Aria 1.2L elsewhere) has a radiator fan switch and a separate coolant temperature sensor.
    I saw a youtube video, though it is for civic. By the way, no where in the video of 25 min the guy showed the temperature gauge in the dashboard panel -- does this mean even his did not have a gauge too!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO7IQuRbDIU

    In my case the radiator fan switch too must be checked to make sure. I feel it takes too long and too much revving to turn it on which should not be the case.

    What I wish to ask from you is where to find the Radiator Fan Switch, since I rung up Ibrahim Autos in Saddar to know that this can only be found from junk yard.

    Moreover, if indeed this car has a separate temperature sensor, instead of inserting a new one as someone else did that you shared, it wouldn't need much of ingenuity to use the same one and fit a gauge inside the vehicle.
    Temperature sensors, I believe, are meant to alter their resistance with varying temperature. It wont be rocket science to make a small circuit tapping the two wires coming from temperature sensor, to link up with a gauge.

    Right now, tips needed to solicit a fan switch?

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    Well, bought a fan switch from "Sultan ki Khoo" for Rs.800 but back home when I tested both with multimeter and boiling water, both were equivalently fine.

    So the issue does not lie there.

    The car now has new water-pump, rest everything about the coolant system is OK. The fan does start automatically but after a considerable time. Once the fan has turned ON and then OFF we have tried to open the radiator cap (since my driver thinks the system has released pressure by then, and he had been true as far as our khyber and mercedes are concerned) but the cap held a lot of pressure and releasing the cap (held under pressure under a large cloth pad) a bit, sent lots of boiling water to expansion bottle and lots of steam into the air.

    The car runs pretty hot! I can feel it. Engines do not radiate such heat when hood is opened as this car radiates.
    What next would veterans suggest me to do, get checked and worked.
    @Xulfiqar Sb, your advice solicited here too.

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    Until something adequate is done in this regard, I guess our safest bet is to:
    i) remove the T-stat valve,
    ii) make the fan direct.

    The T-stat valve may be helping build lots of steam. Is it possible the T-stat valve is opening much later than it should?

    Can we keep the fan on auto with T-stat removed?

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    yes this is what i am thinking too. Put tstat valve in boiling water and check its opening.
    It doesn't matter baby we can take it real slow

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    Or may i suggest let the outside temperature sore back to 40c n tk it out for a drive in local with AC
    Maybe nothing needs to b done

    U will open half the car based on assumptions otherwise
    Life is short and very unpredictable just like a Quarter mile .....

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