Maintaining UPS/car batteries

[nasirjavaid]

if it?s a local ups, then you need to check its adjustment. I have recently also bought an imported ups ?mercury? And feels satisfied with its factory set adjustments, only thing required with such a ups is good electrolyte from very first day. Coming back to your question

yes its local ups and charging rate was around 15 amps.

1. You did not tell us about the amp-hr ratings of your battery as charging rate depends upon that. As you said that it worked fine for first two years, so most likely battery must have lived its useful life. Battery life does depends a lot on quality of electrolyte used and ups adjustments, once batteries gets old then you need to decrease its charging rate in-order to extract the remaining juice out. Like you said that it completely charges in 20-30 minutes on 12-14 amperes of current so by reducing the charging rate to 4-5 amperes, you will be able to extend the backup time and use it till it finally gives up before buying a new battery.

Sorry i missed it, battery is phoenix xp165. Battery has no issue reaching 14v even 15v @15 amps rate so you still think I should reduce amps? as someone suggested to keep it constant charge for at least 24 hours till batter is little warm. I think it will work as equalization charge???

2. Lower end cutoff voltage should be adjusted to 10.3 volts maximum, like your drops to 8-9 volts so that?s an abusive factor on battery. So damage must already be done but get this adjusted before buying a new battery.

Old kit was useless as its cut off never worked so battery was abused to 8-9 volts many times
now as soon as it shifts to inverter, within 1-2 minutes battery drops to 10 v and stables there slowly going till 9.5. Thats why in new kit i have set cut off to 9.3 for testing else ups fails in 5-10 minutes.

3. C.g in all the cells looks good except for one which had 11.3 c.g. You don?t concentrate the gravity later as drop in c.g in one of the cells point towards the problem area.

I alredy added some pyro electrolyte in it and its gravity now is 11.8 from 11.3 follow these steps as well, as c.g in all the cells does not looks bad.

1) reduce the charging rate to what i have told you. Ok

2) then once it fully charges its self then observe the back up time, sit with the battery with a voltmeter connected on battery terminals and observe how fast battery discharges its self. Like if it remains stable till 11.5 volts for example and then starts rapidly dropping then that clearly shows it times to get a new battery.

I will check it. Plz suggest new battery. I heard ags is good but how to check its plates?

3) if this drop is not rapid then most likely the flush will be useful.

You can also experiment following on the battery but that?s an experiment

1) if ever, everything points towards that flush will work then make preparations for preparing a new electrolyte or if ever you want to buy it.
2) prepare the solution of espom salt by using the directions from internet and put it into the all the cells.
3) let it charge and discharge while its connected to the ups for few days.
4) meanwhile use this time either to buy a good electrolyte or prepare a new electrolyte.
5) flush everything and pour new electrolyte in the battery.

Only if you can afford this hassle.

P.s: Quality of electrolyte used does makes a lot of difference

thank you bro, please find my replies inline. So i put epson salt solution in current electrolyte? How much to pour in each cell?

[nasirjavaid]

@talhawaleed

[wasim625]

@talhawaleed brother

First of all thankyou so much for such a detailed and informative thread and a bundle of thanx for even maintaining it and helping poeple with your exeperience

please guide me with your valuable advice for the following queries below...

"By rule of thumb the maximum allowable charging rate of Lead Acid batteries are its Amp Hour rating divided by 10. For 145 AH battery; the correct charging rate is 145 AH/10 is 14.5 Volts"

14.5 volts as in?

1:: ups should trip/stop charging once battery reaches at 14.5 volts.
2:: the potential difference (the DC Charging Current) between the UPS terminals should be at 14.5 volts??

if its the first point then in how much time should the ups charge the battery upto 14.5 volts ??

if its the second point then what should be the Volts of battery at which the ups should stop charging the battery ??

secondly, while reading the latter part of the post.. i came across this ....

"Adjust the charging rate of each battery such that (AMP HOUR rating divided by 10). E.g For 200 AMP-HR batteries, I can keep it somewhere closer to 15 Amperes but will never exceed 20 amperes."

above you said,

145 AH/10= 14.5 volts
later u said 200 AH/10 = 20 amp ? shouldn't be the volts ?? as in 20 Volts ??

and after answering and guiding me with all these quieries...
kindly come to the points.. below ...

i have an 175 AH Osaka battery and thinking to flush it... (since its in service for almost 1 year now and never changed the electrolyte just topped it up with water 2 or 3 times hardly ermm tap water)

i'll follow the instruction given by you ofcourse.. (thanx for that detailed explanation really your the man )

now the thing i am planning is get an electrolyte from PYRO chemicals (near model town, lahore) but i have a question how much to fill the cells actually ?? full to the roof of the battery?? or i should fill it to the level so that only cells gets dipped in the elctrolyte and than top it up with distilled water ??

and errmm can you share the rates of PYRO battery electrolyte per liter ? and battery watter (distilled water) per liter ??

what should be the amp of ups to charge a 175Ah battery?? In given situations...

1:: if its new and first time electrolyte is added..

2:: if it is 2 to 3 months old battery... ??

[talhawaleed]

thank you bro, please find my replies inline. So i put epson salt solution in current electrolyte? How much to pour in each cell?

Even though, I have not tried this so you will need to search internet and look for answers. I have heard that it works. Rest of the answers against your question are as follow

yes its local ups and charging rate was around 15 amps.
For phoenix xp165, 15 amperes of charging is very high, should had been maximum 8 amperes and under current circumstances this should be 6 amperes.

Sorry i missed it, battery is phoenix xp165. Battery has no issue reaching 14v even 15v @15 amps rate so you still think I should reduce amps? as someone suggested to keep it constant charge for at least 24 hours till batter is little warm. I think it will work as equalization charge???
Cut of voltage should be set to 14 -14.4 volts maximum and should never exceed 14.4 under any circumstances. If it’s exceeding then it’s a damage that is being done to batteries.

Old kit was useless as its cut off never worked so battery was abused to 8-9 volts many times now as soon as it shifts to inverter, within 1-2 minutes battery drops to 10 v and stables there slowly going till 9.5. Thats why in new kit i have set cut off to 9.3 for testing else ups fails in 5-10 minutes.
Issue with lower cutoff gets highlighted once batteries become weak or overly discharged but that stage should not come that easy if batteries are in good health and UPS is properly setup. Its an important variable but most important on any ups is cutoff at which charging stops and charging rate. If these two are properly setup then you can still live with lower cutoff. Anyway, it’s good that you took care of the issue.

I alredy added some pyro electrolyte in it and its gravity now is 11.8 from 11.3 follow these steps as well, as c.g in all the cells does not looks bad.
I wrongly quoted initially that you need to concentrate the gravity to keep it at a level. That was my understanding in start but later I pointed the mistake in main thread number of times and have even corrected it.
Yes gravity should be set once in start but after that you need to religiously add distilled or deionized water to top it up. Bad S.G on any cell is an indication that its developing an issue. That’s basically is the best time to treat it by flushing before it completely goes bad. You also need to make an educated guess as what could be a problem that battery is developing an issue like by checking the ups settings or maybe its already two years old and flush may give it a year more worth of life.

[talhawaleed]

kindly see the reply in front of your questions:

@talhawaleed brother

First of all thankyou so much for such a detailed and informative thread and a bundle of thanx for even maintaining it and helping poeple with your exeperience

please guide me with your valuable advice for the following queries below...

"By rule of thumb the maximum allowable charging rate of Lead Acid batteries are its Amp Hour rating divided by 10. For 145 AH battery; the correct charging rate is 145 AH/10 is 14.5 Volts---------------->its 14.5 Amperes, that means that you no matter what you do, dont exceed 14.5 but i would keep it on 7 amperes. here you need to make an educated guess, if load shedding in your area is frequent then set it up at 10 -12 amperes and if its less then you can also keep it at 5 Amperes as slow charging is good for batteries.

14.5 volts as in?

1:: ups should trip/stop charging once battery reaches at 14.5 volts. --------.cut off voltage should always be between 14 to 14.4 Volts maximum.

2:: the potential difference (the DC Charging Current) between the UPS terminals should be at 14.5 volts?? --> no

if its the first point then in how much time should the ups charge the battery upto 14.5 volts ??

if its the second point then what should be the Volts of battery at which the ups should stop charging the battery ?? --14 volts and should not be above 14.4 Volts.

secondly, while reading the latter part of the post.. i came across this ....

"Adjust the charging rate of each battery such that (AMP HOUR rating divided by 10). E.g For 200 AMP-HR batteries, I can keep it somewhere closer to 15 Amperes but will never exceed 20 amperes." -->yes you are right and i have explained the same for your case above.

above you said,

145 AH/10= 14.5 volts -----------------> formula is amp-hr ratings/10 = ____ amperes which is maximum allowable charging rate for lead acid batteries.

later u said 200 AH/10 = 20 amp ? shouldn't be the volts ?? as in 20 Volts ?? --------------> Amperes

and after answering and guiding me with all these quieries...
kindly come to the points.. below ...

i have an 175 AH Osaka battery and thinking to flush it... (since its in service for almost 1 year now and never changed the electrolyte just topped it up with water 2 or 3 times hardly ermm tap water)---> thats a blunder, never top it up with tab water, always use de-ionied or distilled water

i'll follow the instruction given by you ofcourse.. (thanx for that detailed explanation really your the man )

now the thing i am planning is get an electrolyte from PYRO chemicals (near model town, lahore) but i have a question how much to fill the cells actually ?? full to the roof of the battery?? or i should fill it to the level so that only cells gets dipped in the elctrolyte and than top it up with distilled water ?----> electrolye will be filled to a level as indicated on the battery but later once level will drop then you will always use de-ionized water to top it again.

and errmm can you share the rates of PYRO battery electrolyte per liter ? and battery watter (distilled water) per liter ??

what should be the amp of ups to charge a 175Ah battery?? In given situations... : i would keep it to 8 amperes.

1:: if its new and first time electrolyte is added.. :

2:: if it is 2 to 3 months old battery... ?? same throughout, but would re-adjust it if load shedding is frequent that ups enters into next cycle of load shedding without getting charged.

[wasim625]

@talhawaleed got them all thanks a bunch brother

By the way how to determine how many Amp/Hr rating a battery has.. sincd my osaka NS170 is not actually 170 amp/hr my ups vendor says its 130 amp/hr..
I asked him but he kind of tried to be reluctant telling me that.. (or he too didnt know that may be lol)

[HellsGuardian]

@talhawaleed got them all thanks a bunch brother

By the way how to determine how many Amp/Hr rating a battery has.. sincd my osaka NS170 is not actually 170 amp/hr my ups vendor says its 130 amp/hr..
I asked him but he kind of tried to be reluctant telling me that.. (or he too didnt know that may be lol)

Company spec sheet. Volta has it on their website

[nasirjavaid]

Thanks dear for step by step replies of all points... I keep my feedback inline under your comments....

Even though, I have not tried this so you will need to search internet and look for answers. I have heard that it works. Rest of the answers against your question are as follow

yes its local ups and charging rate was around 15 amps.
For phoenix xp165, 15 amperes of charging is very high, should had been maximum 8 amperes and under current circumstances this should be 6 amperes.
hmmm... I read its amps are 120 so 12amp rate should be fine...anyways on new kit its set to 8amp for now..

Sorry i missed it, battery is phoenix xp165. Battery has no issue reaching 14v even 15v @15 amps rate so you still think I should reduce amps? as someone suggested to keep it constant charge for at least 24 hours till batter is little warm. I think it will work as equalization charge???
Cut of voltage should be set to 14 -14.4 volts maximum and should never exceed 14.4 under any circumstances. If it’s exceeding then it’s a damage that is being done to batteries.
[I]Yes, but I increased to 15 v on continuous charge for a day with 3-4 amps so as to desulphate the plates till battery feels little warm... now again back to 14.4v cutoff with 8amps. Still on inverter mode voltage drops to 10v in less than 5 minutes so I will treat it with a flush ...soon taking it to the battery shop from where I purchased it as it seems they used good electrolyte initially as my battery lasted 2 seasons easily and if my kit hadn't allowed low discharge till 8v it could have lived more.

Old kit was useless as its cut off never worked so battery was abused to 8-9 volts many times [/I]now as soon as it shifts to inverter, within 1-2 minutes battery drops to 10 v and stables there slowly going till 9.5. Thats why in new kit i have set cut off to 9.3 for testing else ups fails in 5-10 minutes.
Issue with lower cutoff gets highlighted once batteries become weak or overly discharged but that stage should not come that easy if batteries are in good health and UPS is properly setup. Its an important variable but most important on any ups is cutoff at which charging stops and charging rate. If these two are properly setup then you can still live with lower cutoff. Anyway, it’s good that you took care of the issue.
[I]Flush is inevitable now :)

I alredy added some pyro electrolyte in it [/I] and its gravity now is 11.8 from 11.3 follow these steps as well, as c.g in all the cells does not looks bad.
I wrongly quoted initially that you need to concentrate the gravity to keep it at a level. That was my understanding in start but later I pointed the mistake in main thread number of times and have even corrected it.
Yes gravity should be set once in start but after that you need to religiously add distilled or deionized water to top it up. Bad S.G on any cell is an indication that its developing an issue. That’s basically is the best time to treat it by flushing before it completely goes bad. You also need to make an educated guess as what could be a problem that battery is developing an issue like by checking the ups settings or maybe its already two years old and flush may give it a year more worth of life.
Same as above point

[talhawaleed]

Thanks dear for step by step replies of all points... I keep my feedback inline under your comments....

Here are the replies against your questions
Q: hmmm... I read its amps are 120 so 12amp rate should be fine...anyways on new kit its set to 8amp for now..
Ans: great, 8 amperes is fine, if load shedding is not frequent then you can also keep it at 5 amperes. Slow charging is good for batteries.

Q: Yes, but I increased to 15 v on continuous charge for a day with 3-4 amps so as to desulphate the plates till battery feels little warm... now again back to 14.4v cutoff with 8amps. Still on inverter mode voltage drops to 10v in less than 5 minutes so I will treat it with a flush ...soon taking it to the battery shop from where I purchased it as it seems they used good electrolyte initially as my battery lasted 2 seasons easily and if my kit hadn't allowed low discharge till 8v it could have lived more.
Ans: never exceed 14.4 volts, if ever you need to desulphate the plate then lower the charging rate, like decrease it to 3 or 2 amperes for period of 1 week.

definition of good electrolyte is the one prepared with de-ionized or distilled water. sometimes, electrolyte prepared with tab water also looks as good but actually its not. electrolyte, which you see in battery shops lying in dirty container is worst for batteries.

[talhawaleed]

@talhawaleed got them all thanks a bunch brother

By the way how to determine how many Amp/Hr rating a battery has.. sincd my osaka NS170 is not actually 170 amp/hr my ups vendor says its 130 amp/hr..
I asked him but he kind of tried to be reluctant telling me that.. (or he too didnt know that may be lol)

answer is rightly given by @hellsguardian

[thrilller]

I am planning to purchase 2 new batteries for my chainese 1500VA ups.
Which one should i purchase? I am hearing positive reviews about Millat batteries?

Talked to PryoChe about electrolyte they gave me number of Dilvery guy Mr Rehmat khokar - 03004729119 for order (Main post should be updated as current number is off). He told me that Electrolyte (for Only new batteries) is different and De-ionized water (for only currently used batteries ) and quoted ~Rs 950 for 24 bottles (12 litre ) carton.

In ISB its 9rs /L (asin main post) and here in lahore its 80rs / L :).

[whiteangel]

Rs 950 for 24 bottles (12 litre ) carton.

In ISB its 9rs /L (asin main post) and here in lahore its 80rs / L :).

Tell them to give you the 30 liter can. 12 litres are not enough for 2 batteries. The can is cheaper too.

[wasim625]

Whats Deionized water rate per liter?
And rate of electrolyte per liter for batteries ( i am going to flush my battery and add a fresh electrolyte in it). How much electrolyte is needed for one battery filling..??

[thrilller]

Whats Deionized water rate per liter?
What Mr Rehmat told me whole carton was in was 400-500 range.

How much electrolyte is needed for one battery filling..??
Depends on size of battery. for 150+ amp battery you need 14-15 litres per battery.

experts here can correct me if i am mistaken

[wasim625]

Whats Deionized water rate per liter?
What Mr Rehmat told me whole carton was in was 400-500 range.

How much electrolyte is needed for one battery filling..??
Depends on size of battery. for 150+ amp battery you need 14-15 litres per battery.

experts here can correct me if i am mistaken

Oka thanks. And whats the rate of electrolyte per liter??

[whiteangel]

How much electrolyte is needed for one battery filling..??
Depends on size of battery. for 150+ amp battery you need 14-15 litres per battery.

experts here can correct me if i am mistaken

From my experience you need little more than 1.5 litres per cell for 150AH battery. So that's about 9 litres per battery. To be on the safe side it is better to get at least 10-11 litres of electrolyte per battery.

[ribbyun]

dear, want to purchase new UPS......should i go for latest homeage or some other branded quality or Desi UPS is as good.

kindly experts ur opinion plzzz

[thrilller]

ribbyun

I suggest go for cyberpower or homage or APC if you want less to no headache in future.

[ribbyun]

ribbyun

I suggest go for cyberpower or homage or APC if you want less to no headache in future.

thnkx dear....

[wasim625]

thnkx dear....

Do update us when you'll buy any UPS
its cost
Setup Capacity
And your remarks and experience.

Best of luck with your purchase