BAD NEWS...! DACOITS Despoil Tourists at Saif ul Malook

[faraz74]

@faraz74
@imtishal
@chdemon
@lateralus
@kashif
@Musafir366
@armghannishat

mt dear brothers, Now plz tell me what should i do for my trip..? Should i drop it to next year or give some valuable suggestions...
Aansoo, Dudipatsar and fairy meadows?

i was jst thinking that k agr hum aansoo k liye naran se early nikal jayen to? but at dudipatsar we have to do camps i dont think so there is some other option... is it ?

No such problem for fairy meadows and nanga parbat.

Yes...as mentioned by Kashif..It will be better to postpone Dudipatser and aanso lake area till next year..You can go ahead towards fairy meadows or another good option is to go to upper neelum valley and shounter valley i.e chitta katha lake etc.

[imtishal]

@faraz74
@imtishal
@chdemon
@lateralus
@kashif
@Musafir366
@armghannishat

mt dear brothers, Now plz tell me what should i do for my trip..? Should i drop it to next year or give some valuable suggestions...
Aansoo, Dudipatsar and fairy meadows?

i was jst thinking that k agr hum aansoo k liye naran se early nikal jayen to? but at dudipatsar we have to do camps i dont think so there is some other option... is it ?

No such problem for fairy meadows and nanga parbat.

Bro ! read my post, I have mentioned the mistakes of commom ppl, don't do that or Allah ka naam laye kar chalaye jao Insha-Allah kuch nahi ho ga.

[chdemon]

@faraz74
@imtishal
@chdemon
@lateralus
@kashif
@Musafir366
@armghannishat

mt dear brothers, Now plz tell me what should i do for my trip..? Should i drop it to next year or give some valuable suggestions...
Aansoo, Dudipatsar and fairy meadows?

i was jst thinking that k agr hum aansoo k liye naran se early nikal jayen to? but at dudipatsar we have to do camps i dont think so there is some other option... is it ?

No such problem for fairy meadows and nanga parbat.

Brotherly advice, Dont worry at all, just dont camp if its not safe yet.

Reach Saif ul Malook at 7-8 AM and then go to Ansoo lake, this way you will reach back to SaifulMalook in good time if you are good trakker (not like me we reached 9 PM to saif ul malook, with only cell phone lights, lolz it was a nightmare, saray kalmay yaaad a rahay thay )

Repeat: All is safe, just dont camp for the moment if there is some uncertainty or security situation.

About weapons, dont take any weapon, this is not safe at all to take weapon, specially for us who barely get chance to fire a round. NO WEAPONS.

Ghomo phiroo yara and mojain karo... and return to safe place before dark. thats it.

[chdemon]

Yes...as mentioned by Kashif..It will be better to postpone Dudipatser and aanso lake area till next year..You can go ahead towards fairy meadows or another good option is to go to upper neelum valley and shounter valley i.e chitta katha lake etc.

@faraz74 is not the upper neelum valley known for landslides in august (as told by mobeen bhai). will it be safe to go there if this is case ?

Also is ansoo lake unsafe as well ? if 1 has to return during day time, i think it is not bad. is it ?

[imtishal]

We did anso lake on horse . they charged us rs 2k / per horse for the whole trip. it takes 3.5 hours to reach the lake and 3 hours to return.So if u leave naran by 8:00 AM, u'll reach saif-ul-malok by 9:00, hire horses and start ur journey to ansoo lake, as per my calculations u'll reach back to saif-ul-malok by 4:00 PM giving u enough time to explore saif-ul-malok and surroundings and u'll be back in naran by 8:00 PM.

[chdemon]

Apparently all isolated places of Kaghan Valley looks unsafe. But Army will definitely do something coz their ppl are also under attack. So put any plan about kaghan on next year and go straight to fairy meadows , adding any other location like astore/rama/deosai/rupal/minimarg (any from these) will be wonderful. what about Rakapshi base Camp , I haven't done it but I hope it will be good alternate for your disappointment about dudipatsar tour. Regards.

i have not heard any attack on Pak army from NARAN , KAGHAN side. if this is the case then its totally unsafe, whether day or night. but i doubt that it is the case. i am sure this area is never attacked on ARMY, Police or any agency.
Please correct me if i am wrong.

[BlueHorn]

After reading this entire thread I would like to add that expect nothing from local law enforcement agencies or the FC or even the army. Do you guys remember not long ago high ranking police and army personnel were killed by near Chillas. These security agencies cannot protect themselves how can we expect them to offer security to us. And leave Naran Kaghan areas, in a highly alert and secure area of red zone a man easily entered with 2 automatic weapons. There is no security in our country. This year I wanted to go to Lake Saif al Malook for camping and my friends warmed me about 101 things, some even suggested to take a pistol. My reply was that I am not going on some Jihad, I am going for relaxation. After the killing near Chillas this year I thought how can they protect us when they cannot even protect themselves. So I changed my plan and went to Kashmir instead.

In every country there are incidents but in Pakistan these are a regularity. I have been to many areas of Pakistan and not in a single place did the locals like the local policeman. Whenever I go for traveling and I see policemen, instead of getting a sense of security I fear that they will stop me and harass me until I give them a good reference or some bribe.

My advice to all is to boycott such areas unless the locals and the police improve the security situations. There are many other places to visit in our beautiful Pakistan. This year I stopped atleast 10 groups from going to Saif al Malook and this thread proves that I gave them a right advice Travelling should be a fun and relaxing activity and escape from our daily routine. If I have to stay indoors (in hotels) and carry firearms then why should I bother to take such tension.

Inshallah I am hopeful that Allah will improve the overall security in Pakistan but at the moment even the most highly sensitive areas like GHQ, ISB red zone, high ranking police and army personal are not safe in Pakistan. So expect nothing from them. It doesnt matter if you are in a sticky situation in Lahore or at the corner of a lake in Naran. No security personnel will come to offer any assistance. Although I am pretty sure that local police would take anything from you which the dacoits missed !!!

[faraz74]

My answers in Blue

@faraz74 is not the upper neelum valley known for landslides in august (as told by mobeen bhai). will it be safe to go there if this is case ?

You are right dear..But August is almost over so the monsoon season is...Anyway its always better to check the weather forecast before going to any trip and prepare accordingly

Also is ansoo lake unsafe as well ? if 1 has to return during day time, i think it is not bad. is it ?

Absolutely safe at the day time and its always useful to be accompanied by the local guides just in case of getting late while coming back

[kashif]

i have not heard any attack on Pak army from NARAN , KAGHAN side. if this is the case then its totally unsafe, whether day or night. but i doubt that it is the case. i am sure this area is never attacked on ARMY, Police or any agency.
Please correct me if i am wrong.

In my opinion the insurgency is coming from chilas/kohistan side. So far there is no army in naran but there are attacks reported on security agencies near chilas. Though kaghan is not a border area but I think a little cantonment between naran and chilas will help in improving the situation.

[chdemon]

My answers in Blue

[/COLOR]

Yup bro, always take a guide. we were 11-12 guyz but still we took guide and it was impossible for us to come back if it would not be guide.

[chdemon]

In my opinion the insurgency is coming from chilas/kohistan side. So far there is no army in naran but there are attacks reported on security agencies near chilas. Though kaghan is not a border area but I think a little cantonment between naran and chilas will help in improving the situation.

Kohistan is the core of issue i think. as when we went we also heard that tourists were robbed on ANSOO lake, and local said not to go, but we were fond of the lake (idiots u can say if something would have happened). That day they told us that there is going to be a jerga between locals and Kohistanians about the killing of a local and looting as well.

They dont care about people getting robbed, they just care that the locals should not be shoot. i believe so, i might be wrong. but thats what i thought.

About army posts, i am sure ARMY will not gona be there for good reasons. They can send few jawans but not a contonment as in hilly area its too easy to be killed by any armed person. (my thoughts)

[kashif]

After reading this entire thread I would like to add that expect nothing from local law enforcement agencies or the FC or even the army. Do you guys remember not long ago high ranking police and army personnel were killed by near Chillas. These security agencies cannot protect themselves how can we expect them to offer security to us. And leave Naran Kaghan areas, in a highly alert and secure area of red zone a man easily entered with 2 automatic weapons. There is no security in our country. This year I wanted to go to Lake Saif al Malook for camping and my friends warmed me about 101 things, some even suggested to take a pistol. My reply was that I am not going on some Jihad, I am going for relaxation. After the killing near Chillas this year I thought how can they protect us when they cannot even protect themselves. So I changed my plan and went to Kashmir instead.

In every country there are incidents but in Pakistan these are a regularity. I have been to many areas of Pakistan and not in a single place did the locals like the local policeman. Whenever I go for traveling and I see policemen, instead of getting a sense of security I fear that they will stop me and harass me until I give them a good reference or some bribe.

My advice to all is to boycott such areas unless the locals and the police improve the security situations. There are many other places to visit in our beautiful Pakistan. This year I stopped atleast 10 groups from going to Saif al Malook and this thread proves that I gave them a right advice Travelling should be a fun and relaxing activity and escape from our daily routine. If I have to stay indoors (in hotels) and carry firearms then why should I bother to take such tension.

Inshallah I am hopeful that Allah will improve the overall security in Pakistan but at the moment even the most highly sensitive areas like GHQ, ISB red zone, high ranking police and army personal are not safe in Pakistan. So expect nothing from them. It doesnt matter if you are in a sticky situation in Lahore or at the corner of a lake in Naran. No security personnel will come to offer any assistance. Although I am pretty sure that local police would take anything from you which the dacoits missed !!!

I think we should not demoralize our security agencies by humiliating their sacrifices. Yes ! they are a shield between miscreants and us, and if they are not there to protect us then we will there to receive attacks. It is a war. In this war both sides bear loss. But we should show respect and sorrow bcz this is our loss when our Jawans are martyred.
Almost every tourist will have a story of Army assistance when they were needing it. The role of police can be questioned but how can we forget when policemen are martyred in raids or encounters. There is a grey area between good and bad. All is not well and all is not wrong.
As the situation is not good in Kaghan, ppl will automatically start to avoid it as they did it for swat some yrs back.

[chdemon]

I think we should not demoralize our security agencies by humiliating their sacrifices. Yes ! they are a shield between miscreants and us, and if they are not there to protect us then we will there to receive attacks. It is a war. In this war both sides bear loss. But we should show respect and sorrow bcz this is our loss when our Jawans are martyred.
Almost every tourist will have a story of Army assistance when they were needing it. The role of police can be questioned but how can we forget when policemen are martyred in raids or encounters. There is a grey area between good and bad. All is not well and all is not wrong.
As the situation is not good in Kaghan, ppl will automatically start to avoid it as they did it for swat some yrs back.

1000% agree

[umarkhan74]

Thank you all.... now i have another plan for aansoo...
Hum naran me ek chota room rent pe le k sara saman or paise udr rakh k zarurat k paise or ek he bag me zarurat ka saman le k Saif ul malook or aansoo ho ayen ge.
what do you say brothers...?

I've alrerady visited rama lake Astore, deosai, KKH, Khunjrab, Skardu... or ab full time trekking ka plan hai. dats why we choose these places. @chdemon brother Alhamdulliah i'm a good trekker but my friends are lazy walkers...
ek cam le ke jayen ge Saif ul malook or aansoo pe Allah ne sb thek rkha to bach jaye ga wrna koi baat nae ziada nuqsan to nahi ho ga na...

[umarkhan74]

I think we should not demoralize our security agencies by humiliating their sacrifices. Yes ! they are a shield between miscreants and us, and if they are not there to protect us then we will there to receive attacks. It is a war. In this war both sides bear loss. But we should show respect and sorrow bcz this is our loss when our Jawans are martyred.
Almost every tourist will have a story of Army assistance when they were needing it. The role of police can be questioned but how can we forget when policemen are martyred in raids or encounters. There is a grey area between good and bad. All is not well and all is not wrong.
As the situation is not good in Kaghan, ppl will automatically start to avoid it as they did it for swat some yrs back.

Good Kashif Bhai... Agree

[Wanderlust]

My advice to all is to boycott such areas unless the locals and the police improve the security situations. There are many other places to visit in our beautiful Pakistan. This year I stopped atleast 10 groups from going to Saif al Malook and this thread proves that I gave them a right advice Travelling should be a fun and relaxing activity and escape from our daily routine. If I have to stay indoors (in hotels) and carry firearms then why should I bother to take such tension.

Way to go....... There was a similar incident on the gateway to an island in Philippines. Tourists stopped going there...and guess what....in a weeks time, locals traced the culprits....made them sit on the entrance of tourist info office for two weeks so that they can be humiliated by tourists. Later they were handed over to police.
I cant believe this is all done by kohistanis "ONLY". Locals know who is kohistani ad who is local. Even if they are kohistanis, locals cant just walk away from their responsibility. I am hoping that tourism will revive in swat soon so that locals can feel a pinch on their business so that they focus on insecurity for tourists.

[kashif]

Thank you all.... now i have another plan for aansoo...
Hum naran me ek chota room rent pe le k sara saman or paise udr rakh k zarurat k paise or ek he bag me zarurat ka saman le k Saif ul malook or aansoo ho ayen ge.
what do you say brothers...?

I've alrerady visited rama lake Astore, deosai, KKH, Khunjrab, Skardu... or ab full time trekking ka plan hai. dats why we choose these places. @chdemon brother Alhamdulliah i'm a good trekker but my friends are lazy walkers...
ek cam le ke jayen ge Saif ul malook or aansoo pe Allah ne sb thek rkha to bach jaye ga wrna koi baat nae ziada nuqsan to nahi ho ga na...

Remembering an old quote ''Try for the best and hope for the none'' But always keep a door open for ur return Good Luck

[levin]

this is easy,, trap them by fake tourists

[kashif]

this is easy,, trap them by fake tourists

Where there is will there is a way. The tourist season will end in some days and govt and all of us will forget about this, until any incident will occur again. Panadol , antibiotic or major operation, all these are options in hands of authorities what they will do ( or will not do) no body knows. We ppl visit any area once in years, but if tourism is effected in an valley like kaghan the business of locals will be totally ruined. Basically it depends upon the locals, how much serious they take it.
The locals must come forward and raise the issue that could get attention of authorities and they take any decisive action.

[levin]

authorities don't like road trips?. how boring to fly there?