Charade Owners & Fan Club

[bilalakram]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/352598814906605/

CHARADE PUBLIC GROUP

[auree1255]

This post just lt up a light in my mind. I remember I was having issues like this once and it turned out to be a partially shorted out wire of the electro-magnetic fuel switch for CNG/petrol. The wire was keeping the valve internittently open while on CNG and was letting petrol in. Check it's wiring and function. It should open and close with a clean click.

Sir checked. Found correct.
Latest:
elec pump gave way after a day.
Checked for obstructions, air leaks in the fuel circuit leading to it. Found sat. Pump in warranty and therefore returned. Back to CNG.
Went to CNG tuner mech, had it re-tuned after the adjustments that had gone in while the petrol mech fiddled with everything. Adjusted and set course back for home. Enroute found the engine almost dying whenever the auto fan would kick in. Tired, I continued on towards my home. No more strength left to confront the idiocy of mechs.
If trying out their uneducated ideas to mess up my veh is all that mechs can offer , then I think I have the first right on my veh for any such ideas. And so, I am mugging up the CB-23 manual, your thread and various blogs on line to get myself lined up for the task!!!
Bid me luck, please!!
Will need help, all the way to clarify doubts!

[Xulfiqar]

the main charging wire on the alternator is very thin on a charade cb23, and it has a connector near the firewall near the A/C pipes, test for voltage drop and also inspect for damage.

the alternator top bracket should be grounded so it can actually reference correctly.

I wrote this after you said that your engine dies when the cooling fan starts.

what is the running voltage?

[chery1]

Hello Charade fans... here are a few photos of my last Charade which I sold a couple days ago.

[auree1255]

@Xulfiqar
Sir almost dies, yes. I will surely check that. You see the way these mechs muscle their way to access deeper parts in the bonnets usually leaves a few dangling wire connections by the skin of their teeth. so I very much suspect.
Few quick questions sir, that I have your attn.Sir correct me where i am wrong please
4 comes from secondary disty and transmits positive vaccum signal to sdry diaphragm on disty and the power valve
5 is probably for the Evap Purge canister, which is no more att with the car. In my case the line has been att to the secondary line from 4 above via a T.
6. at the bottom is the line from the PCV on tappet cover.
6 and 7 at the top.. I have no idea. They seem plugged. 7 is where a probably a BVSV (Bimetal Vaccum switching valve) has to go and the upper 6 is perhaps the remains of a vaccum switch.

[auree1255]

Though there are far many ports than those listed in the manual schematic below, but the probable spec, settings I can go for is perhaps this one :-

[auree1255]

Sir correct if wrong , please


9 is the AD port, from where pri /main vaccum is draawn by the disty
8 is the Idle mixture setting screw and 12 is the throttle adjustment screw (A detailed inquiry on their aspects a bit later)
10. is the TP port wbich has to be connected to the dashpot via a VTV
11 are water ways for the heating. Point is only one pipe emnates from the base and bifurcates into two, which is return and which is fwd and how come they join outside closing the circuit before entering,or are they concentric after they unite? How and where to attach them

[auree1255]

Misc Issues:
1. At the moment, someone has attached the choke opener via a air filter (marked with red cross) to the secondary of the distributor diaphragm. According to manuals, it is wrong. It has to get vaccum from manifold, however, not all the time , and has to be attached via BVSV, so that it is operative only once eng temp kicks in order to release the choke. What should I do as I cannot be lucky to lay hands on a BVSV. Any idea what they call it in vernacs. Can I let it attached with the secondary line of the Disty diaphragm for time being, though useless.
2. There is a port opening from the Air cleaner, that according to manual, ought to go through the BVSV to the manifold, for what reason I dont know. Intuition tells me, it is somehow concerned with switching of the BVSV.
3. The secondary throttle diaphragm is connected right besides itself into a port in the main throttle. I hope thats correct. (Black arrow below)

[auree1255]

Waiting anxiously for consideration and opinions please.

[auree1255]

Ok burning questions:-

1. What should I do about the choke opener diaphragm? Need a temp operated switch for it, i guess that transmits a vaccum signal after being activated by temp from perhaps the water body. Implies it has to draw vacum from say the manifold, route it through TVV or a BVSV plugged to the water body and end up at the choke breaker diaphragm. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

2. There is series of ports along the entire intake all along the various segments of what makes up the complete inlet train. This includes:-
   a. Air intake, to include the two portions divided by the air filter (1 port from the inside of the filter, two from the intake arm of the cleaner case.)
   b. Air horn of the carb (power piston, HIC)
   c. Main carburetor body with the main and secondary thottle barrels, and the throttle valve controls. (TP port, vacc port for the secondary throttle diaphragm and the Throttle adjustment screw)
   c. A base thats almost of a different colour or material...slightly reddish, with the secondary throttle controls (AD port, port for HIC, the Idle mixture adjustment screw, carb water heating lines)
   d. A blackish receptacle base on top of the manifold that recieves the carb (port for PCV of the engine oil from the tappet cover, two ports t the back, one to secondary diaphragm of the Distributor and 1 to the Evap Purge Charcoal Canister
   e. Manifold - port to plug in the BVSV and another one yet to be identified, but a vaccum switch actually a the manual says.

Question : Ports in each segments have manifestations, and uses due to the peculiar conditions (pressure, temp etc) of the airfuel mixture in them. Can anyone shed light on them? Please.....

[auree1255]

@Xulfiqar
Voltage across / between the charging line and the top bracket of the Alternator you mean, after ensuring its properly grounded.
Sorry for being a dumbass, For now, have not actually not gone into the electrical stuff of the car!

CNG Tuning issue : I have seen the CNG mech only fiddle with the sensitivity screw and the Max Flow screws (Peak Speed Adjuster), never the idle adjustment. On a certain website, ref to by a member at Pakwheels, adjustment procedure involves the idle adjustment as well. Logical. Anyone tried it?

[auree1255]

I need this. Can anyone help please.

[auree1255]

Adjusted :- The dashpot, corrected the vaccum port connections, checked HIC, Adjusted the CNG tuning. Result is sublime. RPM holding at 850 and rising to round 1000 as elec load comes on (less AC, which has its own vaccum ports but is disconnected altogether for the time being).
Pending issues:- A choke wire, BSVS and Vaccum switch, an air cleaner box version with the Hot air/cold air thing as its going to get freezing in quetta very soon and heating up the engine will be a big issue. Also need to connect the carb body heating water circuit. Hope all goes well.

I am sure my inquiries and concepts are perhaps trivial for the tech guys out there, but I am incessantly continuing this monologue with two aims in mind: I will get prudent guidance, one; And second, this may provoke insightful responses from tech guys which will remain on the forum for the benefit of guys like me; Three cheers to Pakwheels!

[asad1]

That's my g100

[Xulfiqar]

ok - your pictures are correct and you are on the correct way to setting it up.

your choke opener is there to allow a slight trickle of air in as the engine starts, meaning, even when you have the choke pulled in the dashboard, the opener will release it about 3mm to allow some air into the carb, otherwise it will stall, the reason for a slow release in there is to prevent the plate snapping under full vacuum, it can bend.

In some cars there is an additional spring loaded trap door in the choke plate to do this job. And this item is usually called choke breaker.

the top most picture you posted - has one vacuum line in primary throat of the carb mount - that is the PCV line that goes to the oil cap. (Ensure oil cap is clean and not blocked and is correct style too - diesel and turbo models have different oil cap)

the BVSV in your engine can be for different items - does your engine have EGR or electric thermostatic plate in the air cleaner housing?

please do add the ground strap to the alternator and inspect the main charging cable, if its twisted and taped together, please replace it. And make sure to use a fuse on the positive battery connection, The G11 used fusible link wire - its basically a wire 4 AWG sizes smaller - this acts like a fuse if the main wire dead shorts to earth (hint = mehran still uses the same system) Some G100 have a fusible wire and some had an actual fusebox hanging off the main battery terminal with a 40A fuse.

The original wiring is super thin and taped (el cheapo extreme) - replace it with good wire and cover it in the nylon tubing you see on better cars, tape it up nicely (use electric tape without the glue, you can remove the glue with some nail polish remover, you can seal the ends of the loom with self fusing tape so it does not let the wrap go.

OR

you can go GM (General Motors) on it, just use about 4 inches of tape on the ends of the nylon tubing to lock it to the wires and leave the rest alone.

make sure to tie the loom to the manual bending clamp which is under the intake manifold - you can buy it from nut/bolt spare part shop (called wiring fitting patti - jenyan wali)

[Proverbial_Slang]

Hello Charade fans... here are a few photos of my last Charade which I sold a couple days ago.

Nice one Qaiser Seems like the original color was white. Which car do you have now?

[Xulfiqar]

Hello Charade fans... here are a few photos of my last Charade which I sold a couple days ago.

This oil cap will cause the engine oil to become sludge, the original oil cap is part of the PCV system.

[Xulfiqar]

Ok burning questions:-

1. What should I do about the choke opener diaphragm? Need a temp operated switch for it, i guess that transmits a vaccum signal after being activated by temp from perhaps the water body. Implies it has to draw vacum from say the manifold, route it through TVV or a BVSV plugged to the water body and end up at the choke breaker diaphragm. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

2. There is series of ports along the entire intake all along the various segments of what makes up the complete inlet train. This includes:-
a. Air intake, to include the two portions divided by the air filter (1 port from the inside of the filter, two from the intake arm of the cleaner case.)
b. Air horn of the carb (power piston, HIC)
c. Main carburetor body with the main and secondary thottle barrels, and the throttle valve controls. (TP port, vacc port for the secondary throttle diaphragm and the Throttle adjustment screw)
c. A base thats almost of a different colour or material...slightly reddish, with the secondary throttle controls (AD port, port for HIC, the Idle mixture adjustment screw, carb water heating lines)
d. A blackish receptacle base on top of the manifold that recieves the carb (port for PCV of the engine oil from the tappet cover, two ports t the back, one to secondary diaphragm of the Distributor and 1 to the Evap Purge Charcoal Canister
e. Manifold - port to plug in the BVSV and another one yet to be identified, but a vaccum switch actually a the manual says.

Question : Ports in each segments have manifestations, and uses due to the peculiar conditions (pressure, temp etc) of the airfuel mixture in them. Can anyone shed light on them? Please.....

the throttles are in an iron housing - its rusted thats why its reddish. any ports under it have maximum vacuum at idle position. then there are more ports above the throttle, these will only get suction when there is air rushing through the throats of the carb. e.g. the dashpot only gets signal when its above idle speed, the secondary diaphragm on the distributor is what controls vacuum advance teamed with the main. It pulls the breaker plate to advance timing.

the choke breaker via BVSV is to disable the choke when the engine is hot - no matter if the driver pulls the lever. The other port that goes to the air cleaner is to "vent" this vacuum - reason for vent in airbox is that there is "clean and filtered" air in it.

The power piston works on engine vacuum - ergo it requires full vacuum signal from the manifold.

[asad1]

Need electronic fuel pump for my Charade as market is full with Chinese one which gets heat up

[auree1255]

@Xulfiqar

Sir extremely grateful for the replies. Especially the ones regarding the vaccum conditions down the entire run of the carb. Could not have found it so tersely put anywhere. You have a gift there!

Your inquiry regarding the Emissions control:

a. I believe it did not have the EGR definately. Since there is no EGR valve as such nor could I find any ports / outlets on the exhaust side
b. It has a cat converter warning light in the dash.
c. Might have had a Evap purge can in heydays as it has an extra 3mm port , a plugged VSV port and a broken off BVSV plenum located at the let manifold
d. The water lines in the base of the carb point towards an engine edition for a cold region..say Swedish, definately not Swiss, as they required EGR
e. There is that one open ended hot air pipe out of the exhaust manifold outer shroud (heat shield?)that to my understanding is for the hot air intake to the air cleaner, again an indication to being a cold region edition. The air cleaner box does not have the thermo switch etc....but that can be attributed to some idiot like me in her early life who thought better of reducing the cars gadgetry commensurate with his limited knowledge and swappedthe air cleaner box!

Finally now that I am in Quetta and winter is upon us, I will give an arm to get the BVSV to connect it to the choke opener, as well as recommission the hot water line to allow the carb and the engine some warmth and due care!

Unfortunately, I am in middle of a very very tight schedule here, and my dear ride sits most of the time besides my house awaiting attention. Pray that I get the still required Mech fuel pump , a BVSV, some decent vaccum lines and a choke wire from Karachi, as they are not available here.

As for the electrical part, I did not know the basics... so was still in limbo...had a revision of the basics read back in foundation years from a friend on the exciter current and regulator and all that theory stuff.....the process of identifying the imaginative and extensive tapestry of connections existing on the car will be another daunting task...and time is squeezed. So please bare with me for a week or so to get down to that part. I did secure a few wires down there that I thought were dangling...which I know not...and the engine dying issue has gone....More over the dashpot was not mated correctly and RPMs were diving rather than winding, perhaps that was also an issue that was addressed and solved the problem.

A big thanks...again for the attention and advise from your monumental knowledge bank! May Allah bless you