City Vario 2007: Engine Overhaul vs Swap

[mrashidsaleem]

AoA Friends,

I own a City Vario, 2007, which has completed 130K on ODO. Bought it 2 years ago, with 107K on ODO. The car was mostly driven by the driver of previous owner.
Its engine has got weak now, and as per 3 different mechanics that I have got the car checked from, needs an overhaul or swap.
The problem signs are:
1. Whilte smoke out of exhaust pipe (for quite a few months now)
2. Reducing oil (between 0.5-1 litre in every 3,000 or so KMs, when I usually get the oild replaced; I have been using Petromin 10-40 mostly; used Petromin 20-50 just once)
3. Plugs (not all 8 plugs I believe) starting to have some oil on them (noted just recently i.e. about 2-3 monhts ago)
4. Engine sound includes some metallic notise, possibly b/c pison and cylinder now has gap, as per all the mechanics
5. Pick up is weak, and occassionally jerky specially when trying to accelerate right after a sudden deceleration
6. Few other

I am quite sure that the engine does need an overhaul/swap. However, I am puzzled between choosing b/w overhaul and swap.
I plan to keep the car after overhaul/swap, at least for another 2 years or so, but you never know!. My annual running is about 15K, and I am the only one using the car.

All mechanics said that swap is better, but I am concerned about resale value and buyer's septicism when they know about engine swap. As per the feedback I have got, the resale value is reduced by 50+K, and it takes more time to find a buyer.

One of the mechanics whom I trust more (Shiekh Moin at Nagan Chowrangi: He is more knowledgeable, has worked in Toyouta Indus motors here and in Saudia for a few years; did an excellent job in overhauling my Platz engine a few years back) claimed that he could overhaul to make engine as good as new.

The quoted costs (roughly) are: 30K for Swap (mechanic to buy engine), 40K for overhaul.

I have very limited knowledge about these things, and would be trusting on mechanic's words for the new engine (if I go for a swap).

I need your opinions about whether I should go for overhaul or swap.

[sayyedain]

swap is more better. take mechinic with u. check injen compression test so that u got healthy injen. overhaul depend on ur choice not sure its last long

[babarhyd]

Overhaul, use new pistons, rings, see if block needs boring and honing, new valves, valve guides etc, along with new oil pump, water body and anything else u see needs changing like rusty parts etc. Buy all new seals. All parts are available. Go for overhaul. Swap is 100% risk whatever you do and whatever mechanic checks it.

[babarhyd]

Plus its a vario matlab auto transmission car so make sure your fans are on automatic after overhaul and thermostat valve installed. Use distilled water first till you change oil after overhaul which is around 100kms than re-check leakages and go ahead with Aisin or Caltex Extended life coolant.

[babarhyd]

It would be good idea to change all rubber parts as well from hosepipes to vacuum pipes. Also change the gear oil. When all is done do a start clutch calibration for cvt transmission and car will serve you good for 5+ years inshaAllah.

[pwuser151350567931]

change the engine is much cheaper then overhauled

[mrashidsaleem]

@babarhyd Thanks a lot! Really appreciate the detailed help and guidelines. I'll surely be talking to my mechanic about the replacement of these, and the steps you have recommended after overhaul.
I guess the first oil change needs to be done after 1000KM, not 100KM. Right?

Others: Swap does look a cheaper option. But I am concerned about two things here:
1. I could never be sure about the quality of the replacement engine. If that turns out to be problematic, I am back to square one, probably ending up spending for both a swap and overhaul.
2. Second is the resale value. Here in Karachi, b/c of dealers or whatever, people are reluctant to buy a car whose engine has been swapped. The resale value as well as the time required to sell out the car becomes a problem. If, God forbid, one gets into a situation where s/he needs immediate cash, this becomes a serious issue.

[babarhyd]

Make it 500kms. Karachi low speed drive will make sure all is cleaned up. And use 10W30 first oil... Than second 5W30 Shell HX7.

[abid110]

30k for swap is too much. My neighbor owns engine shop at shafiq mor kabari market. I recently saw a Honda Airwave 4coil (not 8) engine which is same as of your City for 16k in exchange.

[mrashidsaleem]

Out of curiosity, and also to know if further costs are to be incurred, how could we tell if a jerky drive is NOT a gearbox issue?

The car occasionally becomes jerky when trying to accelerate.
Previously the jerks were very occasional, and now becoming more frequent (still, not all the time though).
Previously, it was jerking with RPM going above 2.5K, and now it starts jerking sometimes even when RPM is slightly below 2K.
Sometimes the drive is completely normal. No jerking.
The gear indicator (D) doesn't blink. No check engine when jerking.

Mechanic says the jerks are due to oil on plugs.

[babarhyd]

Your mechanic is right. If it's oil on plugs that definitely jerky right. Plus check the fuel pump and fuel filter as well.

[hash4u]

if you have made your mind to rebuild
do check compression after rebuild
you will figure out why people stop for rebuilds when you will see the numbers on the guage
been there done that

[mumbojumbo]

Salam,
my 2 cents....go for a swap. You will be able to find a very healthy engine..all you need is to actually go and explore the engine market. Secondly, about Honda City it is common knowledge in car markets and dealers that people are shifting more towards swap and not going for the overhaul option when they are hit with engine issues. The reason is availability of healthy engines in the market and overall cost which is lower compared to overhaul. In fact 30k is a bit of an overstatement. My relative has a city 2005 and he told me that you can get your hands on a good engine for a little less than 20k in Bilalganj Lahore... costs should be cheaper in Karachi i would imagine.

[mrashidsaleem]

@babarhyd, @hash4u, @mumbojumbo: Thanks a lot for your guidance so far. But I am starting to get a little confused here.

True that the 30K I quoted is a bit of an overestimate. Mechanic actually said he should be able to arrange one, with best quality, within 25K. I believe installation and test drive would have its own cost, so thought 30K would be required. Will have to check with mechanic again.

I am not really concerned if I am paying an extra 15-20K for overhaul, given the following conditions:
1. I get quality, performance and durability comparable to the swap option
2. The car resale value and time to sell is not adversely affected

And, if I do decide to go for a swap, which engine would be the best, and would also be easily available, and wouldn't require any further costs and/or mods? I have local City Vario 2007 (iDSI, 1.3).

[abid110]

If you can, go to shafiq mor market with my reference. My neighbor deals with engines and have a shop there. He could source you an excellent unit.

[hash4u]

if your life is revolving around resale
sell the car as it is

if you want to keep the car
get L13A swapped

[adnanniazi_2000]

I have Vario 06 and the swap to L13A has been Masha Allah very successful so far. Driven about 50,000 to 55,000 KMs after the swap without any issue at all. Engine still feels like new and yes I am using Honda genuine 5w30 fully synthetic with the drain interval of 4,000 KMs. But yes there is a resale issue and as advised by hash4u above. Sell the car as it is, and continue finding another for yourself which doesn't have these issues but that will take an outflow from your pocket as well coz you won't be easily able to find a well maintained car without beig heavy on your pocket