D4D Diesel Engine

[sami_voodoo]

guyz help me out... my nissan sunny 98 ex saloon, b-14. is currently running on engine cd20 engine original. and is about to end.... plz suggest me the right engine which can give a gud consumption and power..... i was thinking to put 1c or 2c toyota engine in it. 4 how much can i get these? and whts de difference.

@Ghuncha is running a CD20 in his B14. And @Spectra helped a friend of his install one into his. The CD20 will probably be a lot cheaper than a 2C and you can find the CD20T as well, if you're looking for an upgrade in power. Plus the best thing, the CD20 is OEM, and that's what you should put in your vehicle.

[spectra]

guyz help me out... my nissan sunny 98 ex saloon, b-14. is currently running on engine cd20 engine original. and is about to end.... plz suggest me the right engine which can give a gud consumption and power..... i was thinking to put 1c or 2c toyota engine in it. 4 how much can i get these? and whts de difference.

You can get a mint CD20 in 30-35k

Converting a toyota 2C will cost around 150k because engine alone is around 100k as it is super rare and it will be a sin to put in a 2C with heavy altearations in a sunny when you can have a bolt on fit CD20 or CD20T in 1/5th the price.

[Porsche_Maker]

So 2C Rocks

Now our Diesel Fuel Price is also more than Petrol so now it should be ULSC rather than LSC. Awareness is the main thing which we need to spread.

[ahsanonline]

and as far as fuel goes,

PSO diesel is better than SHELL's diesel
but
NEVER and i say NEVER use Attock's diesel!!! Its the worst diesel there is IMO. ur car will always give smoke on diesel from that source!

I'v seen NLC running huge Volvo trucks with turbocharged engines. And they run good.

So advice for D4D engine users:

1. fill up at PSO and Shell only.
2. Install extra filter, only costs a few hundred rupees i think...
3. Regularly put injector cleaner in ur fuel tank, cleans out injectors.
4. Get a fuel filter that separates water from diesel. Google it!

Happy turbo'ed driving!

[tanny159753]

guyz help me out... my nissan sunny 98 ex saloon, b-14. is currently running on engine cd20 engine original. and is about to end.... plz suggest me the right engine which can give a gud consumption and power..... i was thinking to put 1c or 2c toyota engine in it. 4 how much can i get these? and whts de difference.

Stick with the cd20. If you have overheating problems, try and source a tourbo version of the cd20 (i thibk cdt20 or cd20t). You dont have to keep the turbo on the engine and it runs very cool. Never overheats.

[Ahmad357]

its not 'garbage' in the diesel like some of you mentioned, its high sulphur content. D-4d Engines are a revolution and one must drive one to understand how different it is from a conventional diesel engine. Adding another fuel filter is a good idea but what i do is get the fuel filter changed every 10,000 kms. my vigo has been driven 170,000 kms now from the cholistan desert to the northern areas without any problems so far. All you need to do is be extra carefull with tha maintainance.

And the hiace did not have the 1kd-ftv. it was the 2kd-ftv engine which is a 2.5

[Xulfiqar]

the diesel quality in Pakistan is better than most countries. The problem we have is low quality filters.

The hilux vigos are all gray imports and do not carry any sort of aftermarket support in pakistan, And people buy shitty parts from shitty shops selling so called toyota parts - cross check the parts packing list and part no. too - you'll know what Im talking about

Now if you look at the original fuel filter that came fit to the car it has a date stamp on it - the ones you buy at your best parts shop doesnt; And all the filters bought in Pakistan are way past their shelf life ergo start to choke up the fuel supply to the CR pump.

The operating pressure in the CR is about 23000 psi. the FPR solenoid can handle all the load you throw at it. The usual cause of diesel injector death in a hilux 1KD are them overheating due to the dumbass intercooler sitting on top of the engine.

That is why mercedes and BMW diesels with CR technology are like mules - the injectors are kept cool

Its not the fuel to blame. Its our upkeep and driving style - sitting at traffic lights all day with a/c on in 40 plus heat

[Proverbial_Slang]

the diesel quality in Pakistan is better than most countries. The problem we have is low quality filters.

The hilux vigos are all gray imports and do not carry any sort of aftermarket support in pakistan, And people buy shitty parts from shitty shops selling so called toyota parts - cross check the parts packing list and part no. too - you'll know what Im talking about

Now if you look at the original fuel filter that came fit to the car it has a date stamp on it - the ones you buy at your best parts shop doesnt; And all the filters bought in Pakistan are way past their shelf life ergo start to choke up the fuel supply to the CR pump.

The operating pressure in the CR is about 23000 psi. the FPR solenoid can handle all the load you throw at it. The usual cause of diesel injector death in a hilux 1KD are them overheating due to the dumbass intercooler sitting on top of the engine.

That is why mercedes and BMW diesels with CR technology are like mules - the injectors are kept cool

Its not the fuel to blame. Its our upkeep and driving style - sitting at traffic lights all day with a/c on in 40 plus heat

That is something new I heard. I will be doing some research on that.

[usmanghani555]

i have a vigo driving it more then 20k now, total mileage is around 50k

i always change the diesal filter with my oil change and so far havnt noticed any problems.

any suggestions so that i can be more careful with my car?

and yes i full up my tank mostly from PSO company operated pumps

[KKNIAZI]

its not 'garbage' in the diesel like some of you mentioned, its high sulphur content. D-4d Engines are a revolution and one must drive one to understand how different it is from a conventional diesel engine. Adding another fuel filter is a good idea but what i do is get the fuel filter changed every 10,000 kms. my vigo has been driven 170,000 kms now from the cholistan desert to the northern areas without any problems so far. All you need to do is be extra carefull with tha maintainance.

@Ahmed, Its a myth that diesel in PK is bad and in another thread it was mentioned that our petrol is LEADED, I am not sure from where this all info in coming from.

Actually its, as Zulfiqar said, our driving style which makes diesel engine difficult to survive to 100K KM otherwise diesel engines, CR or no CR are meant to mark million if properly maintained, infact, any engine. (My brother has 230K on his 2C and his car is fit as a horse) and as far as I know all the HINO trucks are CR.

In PK, the diesel is 0.5% sulphur (typically 0.3%). The diesel in PK mostly imported from ME e.g. from KPC, ADNOC and I can gaurantee you they don't nor any in PK produce suplhur higher then that, cause its not sellable in International market as well as you can't get ISO certification for your products. And this is the reason why PSO calling their diesel "green" although they all the same.

This myth is created by Toyota and the local CHOTA mechanics, Toyota because they dont want to bring latest tech cause it will reduce their profit and mechanics 'cause they dont have a clue what CR and ECU is.

Its them who are forcing us to use old jaded 2C engines while the world has moved on with 2.0l diesel engine producing as much as 180 BHP (2C engines give 75 BHP) and mileage as high as 20KM/Litre

Do you guys know that MITSUBISHI has developed the world's first VVT diesel engine which will be used in its ASX cars releasing next month or so and I am looking forward to see it.

Its amazing, 1.8L giving 150 BHP at 4K rpm with max torque of 300 NM at as low as 2K rpm.

Here's the link Mitsubishi ASX Crossover | Mitsubishi Motors UK

As a matter of fact, in a country, where the cars are sold for their SHAPE not because of their engine specs or safety features or even mileage, what you can expect. So guys bring in your CR diesel and enjoy low torque and lot of fun.

Cheers,
Kaleem

[sami_voodoo]

Do you guys know that MITSUBISHI has developed the world's first VVT diesel engine which will be used in its ASX cars releasing next month or so and I am looking forward to see it.

Its amazing, 1.8L giving 150 BHP at 4K rpm with max torque of 300 NM at as low as 2K rpm.

Here's the link Mitsubishi ASX Crossover | Mitsubishi Motors UK

As a matter of fact, in a country, where the cars are sold for their SHAPE not because of their engine specs or safety features or even mileage, what you can expect. So guys bring in your CR diesel and enjoy low torque and lot of fun.

Cheers,
Kaleem

I read about the Concept RA a couple of years ago, that vehicle was shown with a 200 BHP 2.2 litre MIVEC CR diesel engine. I mistakenly thought that it was the PSA DW12 2.2 litre engine that was modified by Mitsubishi for use in their concept. At that time Mitsubishi was using VAG and later PSA engines in their Outlander while the French clones, the C-Crosser and 4007 were using the PSA DW10B engine.

After looking into it further, here's what I've come up with and wanted to share with you guys:
Translation result for http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/corporate/technology/developing/clean_diesel.html

Press Release

One thing that strikes me is the relatively low 14.9 compression ratio. They're not the first to do this though, Honda also achieved (then) class-leading levels of smoothness and noiseless operation for their N22x by using a compression ratio of 16.7.

Let's wait and see how the automotive press react to these engines. I've got high hopes for these since they've put in a lot of brainpower behind the design.

[KKNIAZI]

I read about the Concept RA a couple of years ago, that vehicle was shown with a 200 BHP 2.2 litre MIVEC CR diesel engine. I mistakenly thought that it was the PSA DW12 2.2 litre engine that was modified by Mitsubishi for use in their concept. At that time Mitsubishi was using VAG and later PSA engines in their Outlander while the French clones, the C-Crosser and 4007 were using the PSA DW10B engine.

After looking into it further, here's what I've come up with and wanted to share with you guys:
Translation result for http://www.mitsubishi-motors.co.jp/corporate/technology/developing/clean_diesel.html

Press Release

One thing that strikes me is the relatively low 14.9 compression ratio. They're not the first to do this though, Honda also achieved (then) class-leading levels of smoothness and noiseless operation for their N22x by using a compression ratio of 16.7.

Let's wait and see how the automotive press react to these engines. I've got high hopes for these since they've put in a lot of brainpower behind the design.

2.2L is the higher strain of the 4N1 (Mitsubishi 4N1 engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

The low compression to reduce noise and to use alloy block. If no issues come, its gonna be real headturner, I will give them a year or two to sort out any problems though I am sure JAPS dont need it their R&D is second to none.

Hopefully, if sanity prevails, this will revive Mitsus.

Cheers,
Kaleem

[hash4u]

indeed diesel of pakistan is very clean,
thats y my friends had to take 530D for detaild serving.it was giving out black smoke like a bed ford. and in the garage there was a 730D with a blown piston getting fixed.
not to mention the poor E220 CDI guy who bought a car which could not start after a week

[KKNIAZI]

indeed diesel of pakistan is very clean,

I like your smile.

Btw, even in Europe, they don't have VERY CLEAN DIESEL, its 0.1% S, which is not very clean.

Is your friend belongs to the same class who blame LEADED petrol for the damage to Catalytic Converter?

In PK, generally, who own 3s, 5s or 7s usually let 'driver' do the talking and maintenance (the best advisor in car maintenance) so I can well imagine why these cars were there.

My brother who lives in ISB had a driver 'incharge' of all maintenance of his '98 VTI, withiin 10 months he had a engine swap so was it bad CNG in PK or it was when he tried to change the flat tyre after the driver left, there was no spare wheel in the car? Judge for yourself.

Incidentally, I had a neighbour in KHI who would drive X-5 (CR), never had any trouble guess why? 'cause he would drive, maintain and even WASH his own car.

So the crux of the story is if you go to Shaukat Khanum you will only see people with cancer BUT it doesn't mean the whole world got cancer or does it? So next time, you go to Serena and watch those beautiful RUNNING 3s, 5s & 7s on that PAKISTANI BAD DIESEL and then PK diesel will become very clean.

Btw, you are so lucky to see so many beautiful cars together now Shall I say MASHALLAH so that 3rd dimension of my personality (which is unknown to me) but known as NAZR-e-BUDD do not effect you?

Happy sailing,

Cheers,
Kaleem

[Xulfiqar]

I couldnt have said it better myself.

usual people with high end diesel cars just trust their ignorant drivers as best service advisors and end up destroying their cars

a freind of mine who experienced a malady of issues with his E220CDI benz got down and dirty with the car and fixed all sorts of its issues (all electrical like I once pointed out - and were pointed out as mechanical failures by the largest and most biggest names in the business - one claimed the engine was dead) It is now literally a maintenance free car that just sees Pakistan highways and regular off the roll diesel fuel.

Every person who drives their own car and does not try to be overgenius in local jaahil mechanic maintenance, have their cars in top shape. No matter if its a Suzuki microcar or a full size Benz any offering by GM, Chrysler or Ford

The one thing I hate is when people say - tuning ke kab zaroorat hai isko - upon which I reply - when it starts to falter - or some indication comes up is your money not dear to you??

[sami_voodoo]

I like your smile.

Btw, even in Europe, they don't have VERY CLEAN DIESEL, its 0.1% S, which is not very clean.

I have to disagree there, ULSD (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel) in Europe is at 10 ppm or below, which would translate to 10 ten-thousands of a percent. The reason that such low sulphur is needed is that catalytic convertors and diesel particulate filters are "poisoned" when oxides of sulphur pass through them, reducing their performance.

Also, the definition of "clean" is rather ambiguous: What is "dirty" fuel? Fuel having high quantities of suspended water? Or high levels of suspended particles? In the first case, a decanter would work, while in the second case, specification filters are designed to stop the passage of potentially damaging particles into the precision injection system components.

As for CR engined cars breaking down, a lot of it is caused due to the reduced reliability of modern fuel injection systems. Yes, modern high-pressure and high-precision injection systems are a lot less reliable than older mechanical injection systems. Continuously evolving emissions standards have forced the acceleration of technology to the point that reliability has not had the time to catch up. The EU will probably freeze the emissions standards at Euro VI and then the aim would be to reduce fuel consumption. At that time,injection systems might start to become more reliable.

[KKNIAZI]

I have to disagree there, ULSD (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel) in Europe is at 10 ppm or below, which would translate to 10 ten-thousands of a percent. The reason that such low sulphur is needed is that catalytic convertors and diesel particulate filters are "poisoned" when oxides of sulphur pass through them, reducing their performance.

Also, the definition of "clean" is rather ambiguous: What is "dirty" fuel? Fuel having high quantities of suspended water? Or high levels of suspended particles? In the first case, a decanter would work, while in the second case, specification filters are designed to stop the passage of potentially damaging particles into the precision injection system components.

As for CR engined cars breaking down, a lot of it is caused due to the reduced reliability of modern fuel injection systems. Yes, modern high-pressure and high-precision injection systems are a lot less reliable than older mechanical injection systems. Continuously evolving emissions standards have forced the acceleration of technology to the point that reliability has not had the time to catch up. The EU will probably freeze the emissions standards at Euro VI and then the aim would be to reduce fuel consumption. At that time,injection systems might start to become more reliable.

Thanks, I should have been more elaborative, what I meant was diesel used for cars in EU is supposed to be 0.1%S or 1000ppm (LSD). Why DPFs get damaged with high sulphurs, they are meant to filter NOx and SOx compounds to lower the emissions, they meant to survive the beatings for million miles provided the engines were run at the optimum Revs.

I think you are making it too complicated by talking about the suspended water and compounds, in actual fact you cannot decant any suspended water at all cause its soluble, what you can decant is settled (beyond saturation/volume) water. You can only find it out this by carrying out lab. test and live with it.

Btw, I have been to Nantes on way to Donges to carry out inspection of LSFO (Low sulphur Fuel Oil) for the power station there.

Cheers,
Kaleem

[sami_voodoo]

Thanks, I should have been more elaborative, what I meant was diesel used for cars in EU is supposed to be 0.1%S or 1000ppm (LSD). Why DPFs get damaged with high sulphurs, they are meant to filter NOx and SOx compounds to lower the emissions, they meant to survive the beatings for million miles provided the engines were run at the optimum Revs.

I think you are making it too complicated by talking about the suspended water and compounds, in actual fact you cannot decant any suspended water at all cause its soluble, what you can decant is settled (beyond saturation/volume) water. You can only find it out this by carrying out lab. test and live with it.

Btw, I have been to Nantes on way to Donges to carry out inspection of LSFO (Low sulphur Fuel Oil) for the power station there.

Cheers,
Kaleem

DPFs catch particulate matter during normal functioning of a diesel engine. When it becomes loaded, either post injection in the cylinders, or an independent fuel inejctor in the exhaust system is used to burn off the particulates. It is true that that particulate matter is composed of carbonaceous compounds with absorbed compounds found in fuels, of which Nitrogen and Sulphur may be a part.

That said, DPFs themselves cannot treat NOx emissions. Only a NOx trap can do that. You capture the NOx in the crystal structure, then you run the engine "rich" for a while, which, in the presence of catalysts in the NOx trap, reduce the NOx into Nitrogen, Water, and CO2 (water and CO2 come from the fuel).

As for the longevity of DPFs, what you say is right, but it only works in theory. In practice, you've got lot's of low speed runs with exhaust temperatures that are insufficient for regeneration. Ask any engineer who's connected to the automotive industry, and he won't like to have a DPF on his personal car.

[ahsanonline]

hey hey hey did i miss the diesel bashing! :d

i read an article a few days ago that said we in Pakistan are paying for 0.5% sulphur diesel and are getting 1% sulphur diesel - the so called High Speed Diesel, by the refineries. Part of the taxes levied on diesel and petrol (eg. PDL) was put in by previous government so that proceeds from them could help develop petroleum refining capacity as well as notch up the quality - infrastructure development.

Obviously the oil companies just ate the money and did squat.

[KKNIAZI]

As for the longevity of DPFs, what you say is right, but it only works in theory. In practice, you've got lot's of low speed runs with exhaust temperatures that are insufficient for regeneration. Ask any engineer who's connected to the automotive industry, and he won't like to have a DPF on his personal car.

Yes, in a perfect world, there is no pollutant air, fuel and emissions but unfortunately its not reality and filters are any engineers' 'worst option' but thats what we have to live with, isnt it?

Cheers,
Kaleem