Diesel engine health

[Xulfiqar]

This "rotor paalish" is a very bad idea, the rotor and high pressure iron head on the pump are one assembly and parts are never interchanged. If you buy a real denso rotor - you will come to know it is only sold with its head - never separate. When this technician installed the rotor did he calibrate the pump on a test bench? What was the fuel flow like on all injectors on the bench?

[mnkhan198]

Dear Xulfiqar
My brother-in-law just bought a KIA SPORTAGE. The vehicle is 75000 driven, one owner so the repair history should be available provided the seller is fair to tell the truth.
The problem is that it starts normally when cold and drive is absolutely OK but when switched off, it does not start easily again after a few min. It feels as if battery has lost current. If left alone for an hour or so to cool down, it again starts normally. Electrician says that battery is OK.
One of the mechanics consulted said that CSD is working fine. The vehicle has coolant in it and the previous owner claims to have never used water in the cooling system. Mechanic was asked to comment on the tappet adjustment which he said is not required and said that it has a different mechanism than normal tappets ( I don't get it. What this can be?). He said that the pump is perfectly timed. The previous owner said that no fiddling has ever been done with the pump.

Can you guide us for the line of action to be adopted.

[Xulfiqar]

if it refuses to restart and the engine cranks slowly then the first item to check if the starter is facing overheating problems or the battery cables are corroded etc.

[YamahaYB100]

@xulfiqar please confirm can we swap 2c diesel pump on Mazda R2 ?
Zexel and Denso are same inside or different

[Xulfiqar]

whats wrong with your zexel pump?

[YamahaYB100]

whats wrong with your zexel pump?

No problem it's working fine
Just for information I asked

[ali_ak]

@xulfiqar

Is this the tool you mentioned earlier to replace valve shims for 2C toyota engine??

YA8825, Tool, Valve Adjusting(Toyota, other OHC engines with spacer shims)

[Xulfiqar]

@Xulfiqar

Is this the tool you mentioned earlier to replace valve shims for 2C toyota engine??

YA8825, Tool, Valve Adjusting(Toyota, other OHC engines with spacer shims)

yes - this is the tool

[ali_ak]

I doubt i can find it locally
In the video i saw this, person used rather honda tools to take out shims, and i guess some heavy bike shop may have same tools to do the job.

Guys, here is the engine manual of toyota 2c/1c engines, one can learn quite a lot from it, for other engines as well.
http://kickass.to/toyota-1c-2c-2c-t-diesel-engine-repair-manual-rar-t7725664.html

[Xulfiqar]

I doubt i can find it locally
In the video i saw this, person used rather honda tools to take out shims, and i guess some heavy bike shop may have same tools to do the job.

Guys, here is the engine manual of toyota 2c/1c engines, one can learn quite a lot from it, for other engines as well.
http://kickass.to/toyota-1c-2c-2c-t-diesel-engine-repair-manual-rar-t7725664.html

find a machinist to make the older toyota tool for you, it looks like a fixed half moon service spanner (the type you use to tighten 2 stroke exhaust gland nuts) - there is another type which has a reverse thread screw on a C shaped foot.

[ali_ak]

^

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawasaki-Motion-Pro-Valve-Shim-Tool-/371171163807

2nd tool from right is what person used in his video, first he pressed bucket with it, then used some metal to hold the bucket in place from other side (that tool was not much visible), then used this tool for raising the edge of shim, and pulled that out with magnet.

3rd and 4th tool from right are i guess what you mentioned as 'half moon'.

There is a question also, if i fail compression test, and rings are needed to be replaced, is that possible without removing the head of 2C??

I guess you mentioned something like that earlier about some engine.

[Xulfiqar]

^

Kawasaki Motion Pro Valve Shim Tool | eBay

2nd tool from right is what person used in his video, first he pressed bucket with it, then used some metal to hold the bucket in place from other side (that tool was not much visible), then used this tool for raising the edge of shim, and pulled that out with magnet.

3rd and 4th tool from right are i guess what you mentioned as 'half moon'.

There is a question also, if i fail compression test, and rings are needed to be replaced, is that possible without removing the head of 2C??

I guess you mentioned something like that earlier about some engine.

the tools you posted the ebay auction for are too small for the toyota 2C, But yes thats what the half moon tool looks like.

you cannot replace the rings with head in place, you need to push the pistons upwards to remove them.

[ali_ak]

@xulfiqar

Whats wrong with altering old shims by machinist??

I can still ensure valve clearance is as per manual, but getting new shims is difficult.

Even getting them from bilal ganj may not solve the issue, as probably all those used shims be altered by kharadia at some time.

[Xulfiqar]

the bucket shims are case hardened items, meaning that they have a very hard skin on them that provides the hard and long life surface required.

grinding them will remove this skin and render them useless IMO as now the shim can also damage the camshaft lobes. Also please remember that the entire lifter (duboo or tappet) actually rotates as the cam rotates on it, they are ground 15 minutes off centre and the cam lobe has the corresponding face and is also set to a side just for the purpose of them to actually spin in their bores.

[ali_ak]

That explains. But one can still alter the 1 side of the shim and ensure its not faced against the cam lobs.

Secondly, how to ensure that engine is correctly timed,

If we align crankshaft pulley against markings on the engine (there were three or four such markings), is there a specific pattern that camshaft is supposed to follow, by which one can confirm that engine is rightly timed?

and what is the purpose timing gun? is that used for engine timing or injection timing?

[ali_ak]

Hey Xulfiqar, today I had my 2C engine's Compression checked. I have marked the recorded measurements on the image with max and minimum pressure as rated in the manual.

Important thing to note that a few times measured compression was above maximum limit.

Although Toyota guys were working while taking a good read at the manual, the floor guy said, HIGH pressure means Rings are leaking hence higher pressure, and insisted that engine general overhaul is needed. (this he said after knowing that my OIL is reducing).

After toyota i took car to a local diesel lab, and asked the guy to check tappet measurements, he was inisiting that Tappets are alright, but he checked the valve clearance on his own way using some Feeler Guage number 8 or 10 (he was himself not sure, and I am not sure what does that number means when manual says clearnace should be between .2mm to .3mm . That was a wastage of money.

Now diesel LAB guys says (at 2 different places), that do not install new injectros if engine is week.

Now the current LAB guy (after my Compression Test guarantee that engine is OK) had no other choice to suggest me ROTOR PALISH (chrome).

Please guide me next step.

Thank you.

[ali_ak]

Today I again visited another place with a different pressure gauge.

Results were same, few cylinders even crossed upper limit.

Then I tested each cylinder for max 5 revs only.

pressure ranges were around 380 psi to 420 psi, above minimum rating of 356 psi.

I also noted Pressure reading at first rev, one of the cylinder got around 160, others were 180 or 200/210. I read somewhere that 1st rev reading should be 50% of fifth rev reading. I am not sure if that holds true for diesel, or good for petrol engine only

I didn't payed much attention on noting down values, they were matching toyota readings, but I have mentioned the general Readings above.

This i got tested in a govt ficility, mechanic was very experienced, he was of the opinion that since engine is giving blow by their is issue with ring, but said i should run it as it is, and get my nozels/pump serviced.

[Xulfiqar]

That explains. But one can still alter the 1 side of the shim and ensure its not faced against the cam lobs.

Secondly, how to ensure that engine is correctly timed,

If we align crankshaft pulley against markings on the engine (there were three or four such markings), is there a specific pattern that camshaft is supposed to follow, by which one can confirm that engine is rightly timed?

and what is the purpose timing gun? is that used for engine timing or injection timing?

your engine is timed correctly, trust me if your diesel engine was mistimed mechanically you would have a big huge lump of scrap metal in your engine room.

The usual toyota way of timing is TDC cyl 1 on the crank and TDC cyl 1 on the cam - pulleys are marked with husband marks on the oil pump case and also cylinder head with reference to the timing pulleys, OE belts come with marks on the belts too.

diesel injection timing is not adjusted by a timing gun - it is set by measuring the plunger stroke when the engine is at cyl1 TDC, when all is perfect in the injection pump, the engine works like a clock - the dynamic timing is controlled by the pump rpm which causes the whole camplate to rotate (in effect changing the injection timing)

The shim also slips on the lifter itself as it only sits there - its not actually held tight by anything, it can damage the lifter - that is why I never advocate for shim grinding. The lifters themselves also can punch in - in some cases, this is checked by checking the lifter inner cavity for damage at the center pin - if any are found a new lifter is required. It is also mandatory to make sure the shims are never installed with the written side facing up.

[Xulfiqar]

Today I again visited another place with a different pressure gauge.

Results were same, few cylinders even crossed upper limit.

Then I tested each cylinder for max 5 revs only.

pressure ranges were around 380 psi to 420 psi, above minimum rating of 356 psi.

I also noted Pressure reading at first rev, one of the cylinder got around 160, others were 180 or 200/210. I read somewhere that 1st rev reading should be 50% of fifth rev reading. I am not sure if that holds true for diesel, or good for petrol engine only

I didn't payed much attention on noting down values, they were matching toyota readings, but I have mentioned the general Readings above.

This i got tested in a govt ficility, mechanic was very experienced, he was of the opinion that since engine is giving blow by their is issue with ring, but said i should run it as it is, and get my nozels/pump serviced.

the compression tester showing above normal value can be due to deposits in the combustion chamber which have increased compression ratio (a good run will clean it - its also pretty normal to see in service)

the mechanics who told you that the high reading was due to weak oil rings are not qualified enough to work on such engines yet - they need to go back to class and understand the fundamentals and principles of otto and diesel cycle engines.

The shops refusing to service your pump because they see "blow" are useless idiots - dont darken their doors again with your shadow. You only need to find a good shop that can correctly "tune" the pump and injectors - you would need to interrogate owners of such shops to identify a skillset being displayed.

any terminology of "hum aap ke engine ko jahaaz bana denge" etc. without explanations of what they are messing with is an immediate disqualification factor. Leave that shop.

btw - your engine is on the lowerside of its compression range, you might need to look into a leakdown test to determine what is causing the low compression - sometimes its bad valve seats - however your engine will still run strong with these compression numbers.

the mechanic who tested yoru engine and recommends to service the pump and nozzles sounds like a good fellow.

[ali_ak]

Thank you Xulfiqar sb BIG TIME

1)So I should go for a better pump and nozzles service with new nozzles, set at Toyota Specs, right?

2)You also mentioned in another thread...
"if your engine has good compression and shows oil consumption only then replace the valve seals - it is very easily done on any IDI diesel engine without taking the head off. Speak to your mechanic and see if he can actually understand how to do this. If he agress I can explain it to you - all it requires is a jig that is made with some angle iron metal a drill in about 30 minutes with a welder."

is that True for me as well??, oil consumption is least of my concern right now.

3)Why did you said my engine is at lower side, due to 5rev only test and 1st rev reading, or due to the fact that carbon deposit is pushing value up.
I will have the deposits cleaned and recheck Compression some day.

4)And while I am at it, how to inspect a shim for signs of grinding?

Regards