EXPERTS Pl. MERC 1996 W202 MAINTENANCE ADVICE/HELP

[Xulfiqar]

you guys should also grease the wiper eccentric mechanism - its under the large cover on the wiper base, if it runs dry it can load up the system causing the half moon plastic gear beneath the arm to fracture (expensive)

better get some grease in there, once every year is good practice, regular wheel bearing grease works

[2c]

seriously gar kabhee itna pper main likha hota to phd mil jati 2 female teachers kay sath.

[abari]

Dear Xulfqar Nice of you giveng another tip for grease the wiper eccentric mechanism.
Would add this into the annual service list.

I am driving cars since 1984 but this C180 (although 15 years old) is a wonder machine so far as drive, comfort and performance s concerned. Now when I drive my Altis, I feel that the car lacks road grip, is uncomfortable and ride is bumpy.

Merc people charge for real value.

Thanks again. God bless you.

[Jaime5798]

HaiderJaved:
Thanks for the detailed reply. I already love my ride as it is well maintained.
What will be the grade of Mobile One Oil? Would you elaborate please as other barnds have grades like 10-30 or 20-40 Etc.

Would request other experts for their input especailly who own and use the similar vehicle.

Thanks.

[Xulfiqar]

edit - double post due to time outs

[Xulfiqar]

Dear Xulfqar Nice of you giveng another tip for grease the wiper eccentric mechanism.
Would add this into the annual service list.

I am driving cars since 1984 but this C180 (although 15 years old) is a wonder machine so far as drive, comfort and performance s concerned. Now when I drive my Altis, I feel that the car lacks road grip, is uncomfortable and ride is bumpy.

Merc people charge for real value.

Thanks again. God bless you.

you are spoilt now,

[abari]

Well said Dear.

Thanks.

[syncview]

For flushing you need to get yourself about 400 grms of tartaric acid (MB also sell citric acid to clean the radiator its part no. A 000 989 10 25) and need to dissolve it in about 7 litres water. Before pouring anything in, you should remove all old coolant by draining the radiator from the plastic drain screw (open with a washer or coin instead of screwdriver - screwdriver can break it) and there is another drain on the block hidden behind the exhaust manifold, Its reached from underneath the car, it has a nipple like end to fit a pipe onto it and would be 17 or 19mm spanner size.

Once done - remove the Tstat and install the empty housing back, flush the system with a weak soap solution (non sudsing is best) to clean out any oils in there (otherwise the acid treatment wont work) - fill the system with the acid mixture you prepared from the tank and start the engine - keep adding till it wont take anymore - keep the system full and engine running for 10 minutes with varying rpms between 700 and 2000. Drain the system again very quickly from both drains and this time do not close the drains, let them remain open, remove the upper radiator pipe and put a garden water pipe in it with running water, let the system flush, start engine to aid in flushing, you need to do this for 15 minutes or till the exiting water is no longer rusty or milky. MB specifies to close drains and run engine for 5 minutes then draining for flushing and repeating it 3 times. (they specify a T fitting to put between the top radiator pipe and radiator to connect your garden pipe to). Once clean, close drains, install thermostat and fill the system with freshly prepared MB coolant - fill the system from the expansion bottle till it stabilises level, fill the radiator from the top radiator pipe till you see its coming to flow out, install radiator pipe (this step ensures you dont get a stupidly large air bubble in the system). Start engine and warm it up - notice temp gauge and feel the pipes and radiator - no irregularities means no air locks and you are good to go.

BEWARE OF ONE THING IN THIS PROCEDURE. If you have heavy rust, you might remove rust that is blocking corroded holes in the system including the heater. You may just choose to drain and fill with new coolant with the above procedure. Choose your remedy wisely.

Brake bleeding is the same as any other car but if your pedal is still spongy then there is some air somewhere in the system, You might have overstroked the brake master cylinder when bleeding - this happens when the pedal is stroked to the floor of an old car during bleeding, it causes the MC pistons to reach into corroded areas of the MC and tearing of seals, causing loss of pressure (usually happens on cars whose brake fluid is not changed in years).

May I ask when was the last time you changed the rubber brake pipes near your wheel calipers and are the rest of the calipers greased etc? Old pipes cause strangely soft brakes - and you driving an MB already know that these cars do not nose dive like jap cars - as the rear suspension tries to compensate the dive hence it bites into the ground on all fours. (quite strange to explain) - hence their brakes tend to feel weak but if you notice how quick the speedo drops you'll see it stops far quicker than a Jap car.

anyway nervous ABS is usually a dirty sensor or bad sensor or even a loose plug on the wheel sensor, clean check and it would solve itself, the components are very robust if you dont hit them with a hammer.

Regarding the rust in the cooling system - well the T-STAT housing is fked up, in every literal meaning of the word 'fked' up. I believe the heater core is also done since the previous had disconnected it! what else can be damaged in there?

I believe I should only flush using water till clean comes out, fill in coolant and be done with it. Will work on the heater and HVAC later...

[I]yes, the brake pedal is still spongy - it sometimes behaves very nicely and feels firm but most of the time it is spongy and operates lower than where it feels firm.

I have no idea when or IF the rubber lines were replaced at all - all four calipers had their seals changed and greased..and working quite flawlessly now.. the e-brake cables were also done.

I didn't happen to be there when the mechanic was bleeding it, however i told him before to not to push the pedal to the floor when bleeding, I have no idea how well or badly the brakes are bled.. i plan to bleed them again will update the status on this very thread.

and yes I felt the lack of nose dive in this car it feels weird but it does indeed work! - also regarding the ABS, is there anyway I can disable the ABS system and check the brakes? the ABS interference is very intermittent. [/I]

[Xulfiqar]

Regarding the rust in the cooling system - well the T-STAT housing is fked up, in every literal meaning of the word 'fked' up. I believe the heater core is also done since the previous had disconnected it! what else can be damaged in there?

I believe I should only flush using water till clean comes out, fill in coolant and be done with it. Will work on the heater and HVAC later...

[I]yes, the brake pedal is still spongy - it sometimes behaves very nicely and feels firm but most of the time it is spongy and operates lower than where it feels firm.

I have no idea when or IF the rubber lines were replaced at all - all four calipers had their seals changed and greased..and working quite flawlessly now.. the e-brake cables were also done.

I didn't happen to be there when the mechanic was bleeding it, however i told him before to not to push the pedal to the floor when bleeding, I have no idea how well or badly the brakes are bled.. i plan to bleed them again will update the status on this very thread.

and yes I felt the lack of nose dive in this car it feels weird but it does indeed work! - also regarding the ABS, is there anyway I can disable the ABS system and check the brakes? the ABS interference is very intermittent. [/I]

if the tstat housing is rusted to hell and back - get it replaced and simply flush with tap water and fill the system up again, just be sure to fill the radiator and hence engine from the top radiator pipe, it helps greatly if the car is pointed upwards, driveway slope or bricks under the front wheels work too. This method greatly reduces the chances of air lock.

The heater system has an electronic valve which when fails gives you permanent heat (thats why I think someone bypassed it) - its rebuildable with a new diaphragm available for USD 50 at most. The valve is in the false bulkhead extension cavity under the bonnet.

For brakes, good that you have serviced them, and if you are getting soft pedal with sudden rise in pedal height your MC is faulty - you might want to rebuild it with new parts. The ABS system is quite hard to disable as it comes through the overvoltage protection relay via the ignition key, if you disable the relay you disable half or more of the car.

It is very good practice to replace the brake rubber pipes at 100,000 miles in a MB sedan, the brake system is quite slim compared to jap cars and if these pipes are blocked it greatly hampers brake hydraulic pressure and can also cause it to release in jerks which may kick the ABS. Bleeding in this car is ideally done with a pressure bleeder, but the 2 man method also works, be sure that the mechanic on the wheel keeps the discharge pipe immersed in fluid, it will take about 20 pumps to discharge the brake fluid all the way from the MC to the wheel cylinder.

buy some cans of brake cleaner and clean out the ABS sensor rings - dirty trigger plates cause erratic ABS behaviour.

Another item is to never use wheel bearing grease on the brake slider pins, use a ceramic based (OE Mercedes) or a synthetic based brake application grease on them, regular grease will eat away the dust boots and you may end up with a sticky caliper. You should never tool the discs, they are meant to be replaced if worn down, tooling them will result in overheated discs.

I love the anti-dive setup of MB vehicles - hit the brakes at speed and you'll feel the car is squatting into the ground rather than pointing its nose into the ground

[Xulfiqar]

Regarding the rust in the cooling system - well the T-STAT housing is fked up, in every literal meaning of the word 'fked' up. I believe the heater core is also done since the previous had disconnected it! what else can be damaged in there?

I believe I should only flush using water till clean comes out, fill in coolant and be done with it. Will work on the heater and HVAC later...

[I]yes, the brake pedal is still spongy - it sometimes behaves very nicely and feels firm but most of the time it is spongy and operates lower than where it feels firm.

I have no idea when or IF the rubber lines were replaced at all - all four calipers had their seals changed and greased..and working quite flawlessly now.. the e-brake cables were also done.

I didn't happen to be there when the mechanic was bleeding it, however i told him before to not to push the pedal to the floor when bleeding, I have no idea how well or badly the brakes are bled.. i plan to bleed them again will update the status on this very thread.

and yes I felt the lack of nose dive in this car it feels weird but it does indeed work! - also regarding the ABS, is there anyway I can disable the ABS system and check the brakes? the ABS interference is very intermittent. [/I]

duplicate post - delete please

[abari]

Dear Xulfiqar.

Another thing I need your advice is that how to Clean the head lights which are not clear/yellowish as being very old.

Thanks.

[syncview]

if the tstat housing is rusted to hell and back - get it replaced and simply flush with tap water and fill the system up again, just be sure to fill the radiator and hence engine from the top radiator pipe, it helps greatly if the car is pointed upwards, driveway slope or bricks under the front wheels work too. This method greatly reduces the chances of air lock.

The heater system has an electronic valve which when fails gives you permanent heat (thats why I think someone bypassed it) - its rebuildable with a new diaphragm available for USD 50 at most. The valve is in the false bulkhead extension cavity under the bonnet.

For brakes, good that you have serviced them, and if you are getting soft pedal with sudden rise in pedal height your MC is faulty - you might want to rebuild it with new parts. The ABS system is quite hard to disable as it comes through the overvoltage protection relay via the ignition key, if you disable the relay you disable half or more of the car.

It is very good practice to replace the brake rubber pipes at 100,000 miles in a MB sedan, the brake system is quite slim compared to jap cars and if these pipes are blocked it greatly hampers brake hydraulic pressure and can also cause it to release in jerks which may kick the ABS. Bleeding in this car is ideally done with a pressure bleeder, but the 2 man method also works, be sure that the mechanic on the wheel keeps the discharge pipe immersed in fluid, it will take about 20 pumps to discharge the brake fluid all the way from the MC to the wheel cylinder.

buy some cans of brake cleaner and clean out the ABS sensor rings - dirty trigger plates cause erratic ABS behaviour.

Another item is to never use wheel bearing grease on the brake slider pins, use a ceramic based (OE Mercedes) or a synthetic based brake application grease on them, regular grease will eat away the dust boots and you may end up with a sticky caliper. You should never tool the discs, they are meant to be replaced if worn down, tooling them will result in overheated discs.

I love the anti-dive setup of MB vehicles - hit the brakes at speed and you'll feel the car is squatting into the ground rather than pointing its nose into the ground

Thanks alot mate.. will update on everything as it goes

right now, what to do if I cannot find a brake cleaner?

[jz]

Please advise plug specifications

oem plugs for ur car are denso ik20

[immad96]

Hello Abari how are you. I am late in thread but still will share my little knowledge on parts, prices, what i have gone through, any problems. But first i will recommend you this guy for plugs.

oem plugs for ur car are denso ik20

I buy plugs for my Mercedes W201/202/203 from JZ. He got all the recommended plugs for these cars as well as JDMs and few on demand. . .

I own 1999 W202 C180 (M111) bought 2 years back (1st owner) it was 20,000kms driven and now it has 40,000kms on dial.

First thing i did was changed all the fluids and filters of car Engine Oil, Transmission, Power Steering, Brakes (i hope i remember all).

Engine Oil - Mobile 1 (Extremely satisfied after every 8,000kms). Usually costs 1,075/Litre. 5.5Litre in W202 Engine.

Oil Filter - Genuine (Every oil change). I used to buy from Walton road, Lahore. Costs 700. Ranges between 700 - 1,200. This time used K&N's.

Transmissin Oil - Factory recommended A/T Fluid. Cost - 3,600/Litre. Used 6Litre.

Transmission Oil Filter - OEM. Cost - 1,600.

Power Steering Fluid - Part number - A000 989 88 03. Drained all the old fluid at home and filled with new fluid. Cost - 450/Bottle. Used 2 bottles.

Brake Fluid - Don't remember :).

Air Filter - First Air Filter was changed with Genuine MANN part at every Second oil change. Cost - 2,400. But this time i used K&N Filters for W202. (Got really cheap from Ebay. $80 for 4 Air Filters and 6 Oil Filters).

After changing all these fluids, drive got really fun and smooth. Drove 15000kms and Brake Pads warning light turned on and later that day, some one stole my front star of Mercedes. So i went to Yadgar Autos, Lahore and bought a new pair of Brake Pads. Original one were for Front 5,300 and Rear 4,200 but i bought Textar forgot number. Front 4,700 and Rear 3,500 w/ Brake Sensors 200 each. W202 C180 came with Brake Sensors in front pads only. Original Front Brake Pads have slots in all pads for sensors, In after market pads, two have slots for Sensors while other two are plain. And front Mercedes star for 2,400 (Genuine), Copy was for 1,200. Comes in same Genuine box (with a slight difference in colour) but you can judge from the chrome finishing. Bought both things at home and changed Pads and Mercedes star.

Good Workshops.

1. INH - Near Airport. Naeem: 0300-8855225.
2. Shabaz Workshop. - Defence. Raza: 03214800949.
3. Suntech Autos. Peco road, Kot-Lakhpat. Junaid: 0300-4427008.
4. Euro Star. Walton road, Lahore.

[abari]

Immad 96- Thanks for sharing. Today visited INH and the inspected the vehicle and confirmed that deal is good. Also had estimate for changing all the flluids and filters. So faor ride is excellent. Will remain in touch.

Xulfiqar has helped a lot, must acknowledge.

Thanks

[immad96]

Immad 96- Thanks for sharing. Today visited INH and the inspected the vehicle and confirmed that deal is good. Also had estimate for changing all the flluids and filters. So faor ride is excellent. Will remain in touch.

Xulfiqar has helped a lot, must acknowledge.

Thanks

What estimate did they gave you? Kindly share some pictures of your ride here.

[abari]

The estimated cost for all the fluids, filters, plugs etc s about 27 K as it is 100k service. For pics you can refer to the followng thread where some pics are posted.

https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/member-opinions-suggestions/179087-honda-accord-advice-2

I am not that expert so loadng picture from file seems tme consuming.

Thanks for the interest

[abari]

Immad

Perhaps pics are not vsible. tryng to up load. Here they go.

Hope you will like it

[Xulfiqar]

you can replace the mercedes bonnet star with the coin shaped logo for the bonnet, its original and was made by MB for areas where people steal the star. Its the same price as the standing star.

brakes - textar are OEM and you bought them very expensive IMO, you paid OE (star stamp) money for them, next time look up the prices of parts and also include wear sensor strings (1 dollar each)

For the fluids - OEM are $$$$ - replacements work prefectly, like the OE MB power steering fluid is actually ATF type A (obsolete ATF) more commonly now known as power steering fluid, The trans takes ATF DX3 even if you have the 5 speed unit. One thing I never cheap out on is filters, always use OEM or MANN/Knecht/Bosch, MANN/Hummel are best as you find them easily and are usually real. For best spark plugs always use non-resistor copper ones in this engine - they work perfectly with no hiccup - using precious metal plugs is good if you match the heat range and ensure there is no resistor in them. They work for a very long time - so please use some antisieze on their threads.

at 100,000 mmiles please also closely check the driveshaft flex rubber joints closely with a very strong light, the front one usually deteriorates first and shows itself as cracks in the rubber, if you see even 1 crack, REPLACE THE JOINT IMMEDIATELY, if that breaks your driveshaft will reshape the transmssion tunnel and the air bag accelerometer sensor which is also housed on the tunnel will deploy the airbags. Transforming your nice MB sedan into scrap. There are two types of flex discs one is a soft type with extra cushioning to absorb downshift shocks and has markings for front and rear (look up my thread for W124 flex disc replacement here on PW). The other type is solid rubber which is found on the diff side, some editions of cars use solid on both ends.

p.s. it was quite amazing to find out that the best older Mercedes benz diesel engine cotton type oil filters were made in Pakistan and Turkey, Pakistan being the best. The rest of the world stuffed cotton factory sweepings/trash/sticks/twigs in them including some OE MB (star stamped) parts.

[Xulfiqar]

Thanks alot mate.. will update on everything as it goes

right now, what to do if I cannot find a brake cleaner?

brush + warm water/soap solution