Honda L13A Engine Swap in HA12 ALTO

[OwaisYunus1]

By reinforcing, I didn't mean welding on the towers etc, I meant a brace on the strut towers and most importantly a cross member at the bottom, tying together 4 points of the chassis. This car originally didn't come with a bottom cross member.

That said, with the MMA, I still do have issues when welding thin sheet metal. Would love to some day learn tig welding.

[sardarg]

very clean & nice work. what is approx. weight difference of 2 engines. What modifications you have in mind for the suspension, last but not least how do you plan to work upon braking ratio to stop the vehicle at hard braking. engine weight & momentum control without an ABS ?

[OwaisYunus1]

Thank you for the appreciation. Well, the engine is actually lighter than the F10a because the F10 was Iron Block with Iron Head and the L13a is all aluminum. However, the transmission is a lot heavier than manual 5 speed that came with the F10. So the combined weight of the L13a+Transmission is about 20 or so kg heavier than the F10+Transmission.

Regarding the suspension, for now, the springs have been changed with slightly stiffer ones and the car is about 1.5 inches lowered. This has noticeably improved handling. I have plans of a stabilizer bar in the rear though but not sure when that will happen. The brakes just have good quality pads for now with all allied parts in proper order, but a brake upgrade to bigger discs upfront is on the cards eventually. Till then, it will be down to careful driving and the little weight differential between both the engines has helped, therefore, not throwing off the dynamics by a lot. The servo+master cylinder combination that I have shifted to has also contributed to improving the braking.

[hash4u]

cant see any of the pictures in thread
is it me only

[OwaisYunus1]

Hashim bhai they were uploaded to imgur, please check if imgr is blocked at your end for some reason.

[nnabeel]

Wow interesting project. Keep em coming.

Very nice to see a clean 2002 well kept alto and good to see the work carried out at home. its a dream for having such tools and space to do something like this.

lets hope it turns out cool.

[hash4u]

Correct
Found out that url was blocked at office network
Viewing the pics fine on phone

One of the top rated threads at pakwheel's at the moment
Loving it

[krafiq]

@Xulfiqar

[OwaisYunus1]

Thank you so much for the appreciation. I'll keep sharing further progress on it in shaa Allah.

[OwaisYunus1]

JazakAllah Hashim bhai for the kind words.

[krafiq]

Want to ask you
1. Are you planning to upgrade the braking system as well? You are essentially going up from 54 HP to 80+ HP with a kerb weight of 750 kg

1. If economy is main concern then L13A mated to a manual transmission is known for its fuel economy figures. Vario set up was never touted for best in economy as compared to the manual one

2. Did you consider Japanese Kei 660 engine for your project?

[syncview]

the jap 660 engine while economical in some ways doesnt really match the performance by this l13

good to see a crazy project being tackled at home

[syncview]

can you share the cnc shop details?

[OwaisYunus1]

Yes, the brake upgrade is my list of things to do eventually. While the alto did not have the best possible brakes, with good quality pads, they do perform quite reasonably. In addition, I've used a different servo+master cylinder, which has improved the braking. With the previous servo+master cylinder setup, it was more prone to skidding, however, I was surprised to see the noticeable difference that the current setup has. I'm guessing that the front and back brake bias was not as good with the previous setup as it is now.

That said, I have not had any issues with the brakes prior to the swap and with little weight difference between now and then, it shouldnt affect the braking a lot. An important thing to consider here is that the main purpose of this car will continue to be a carefully, daily driven vehicle and not a vehicle to race in. The bigger engine would definitely mean that in addition to the horsepower, the low end torque is much better than the previous configuration, which, in turn would mean that the engine is a lot more relaxed while being daily driven, compared to the effort that the F10 had to put in. The less weight definitely helps as well.

1. As far as I remember, this city was the first car with a CVT transmission in the Pakistani market. Since then, I have had and still continue to have people in my circle who have varios and are getting excellent fuel economy, this was one of the most noteworthy features of this shape of the city when it was introduced. However, it is important to note that just like any other vehicle, they need to be maintained properly to get good fuel average. Secondly, as much as the fuel economy was a requirement from this swap, automatic transmission was another one that I would not compromise on.

2. Around 4 years back when I got this car, swapping that engine into it was the plan. But I couldnt get around to swapping the engine at that time. Fast-forward to today, that swap no longer made sense to me, when you could get similar or better fuel average with much better performance with the L13.

[OwaisYunus1]

Thank you for the appreciation There's a hardware shop at Tarnol by the name of Asif Hardware. He has a contact in Rawalpindi where he got it done from. You may contact him at 0333-2479863. I found him to be most cost effective compared to two other options also available in Rawalpindi.

[suzukialtomehran]

Chass kra di bhai, after almost a decade koi achi post daikh rha hon Pakwheels per. I must say mashaALLAH. Keep it up sir you are doing what Pakwheels was made for. Now its just bunch of rich kids fighting over who can drive like a maniac on public roads. essence of Pakwheels is lost in those years and today you restored it by your thread. Again Thanks for the great thread.

[OwaisYunus1]

JazakAllah. Thank you so much for the kind words, they really mean a lot I havent posted a thread at Pakwheels for quite a few years myself and its good to be back posting.

[pwuser148067979987]

@Xulfiqar bhai what are your thoughts on this project, thread is missing your pov,woh thread, thread nahi lagti jis mai aap na hou

[OwaisYunus1]

Time for some updates.

Next up was the right side stabilizer bar plate. Since the ac compressor is now sitting lower than the plate, this plate cannot be installed and in turn, the stabilizer bar cannot be installed either. The purpose of this plate is to provide a base to mount the brackets holding the stabilizer bar in place, to serve as a jacking point for the vehicle and to serve as a gusset between the chassis leg and the front crash bar to reduce flex in the chassis. So it's an integral part of the vehicle.

So, the challenge was to clear the compressor itself, the pulley on the compressor and to be able to mount the stabilizer bar onto it, while maintaining the structural integrity of the part. The original plate could no longer be used, hence the template for a replacement part was made out of cardboard.

[OwaisYunus1]

Next up is the bottom/rear mount. The smaller mount on the right is the original mount of the F10a and the bigger one is the transmission side mount for a Suzuki Swift for the M13 engine. This mount is a lot beefier than the original mount, so it would be able to handle the increased torque better than the original mount.

A side by side comparison of both the mounts will show the difference between the two.

This is how the mount sits and is bolted onto the chassis.