How to Tune(chipping/standalone/piggyback)basics and advance

[datpak]

ok a question from me.
why does a toyota 4ag 20valve bt only make 165 hp?5 valve head 11 comp itbs and still 165?a b16b makes 185?why

[saadzae92]

a 6cylinder engine will make power sooner will help the turboes spool quicker and if talking about Dollar for hp the 6cylinder will outclass the sr20

Correct you are the power in an L6 comes in six pulses = spool faster

and L4's have 4 exhaust pluses per cycle ........but wait a minute here , we have an issue!

in a 4 CYL 2.0 the displacement in divided into four parts 1 CYL= 1/4th of 2000 cc (lets say for theoretical data that it is 2,000cc)

so 1 CYL= 500cc .....lets say after expansion 550cc{hypothetically}

and if we look at L6's 1/6th of 2000cc =333.33 cc

1 CYL = 333.33 after expansion 366cc

hmm four pulses of 550cc will spool a turbo alot earlier than 6 X 366cc

@datpak learners dont drive 400whp machines:P

@saad depends on which car is it going in if its a relatively small less weighing car ill go for the 4cylinder if its a a heavy car ill go for the 6cylinder for example h22+charade=first two gears wheelspin and 3rd gear wont come to an end in a thousand years but yeah charade with an engine that has lesser torque for example b16b but revvs very fast i say the lil amount of torque that the b16b produces is enough to make a charade move so yeah it depends what car is it going in!

Yes the word is CARS .....lets keep it to something very simple and generic

thank you.

[saadzae92]

ok a question from me.
why does a toyota 4ag 20valve bt only make 165 hp?5 valve head 11 comp itbs and still 165?a b16b makes 185?why

https://www.pakwheels.com/forums/performance-modification-tune-up-preventive-maintenance/137603-b16b-vs-4a-ge-bt-factual-conclusive-study

[SpoonMotorSports]

ok a question from me.
why does a toyota 4ag 20valve bt only make 165 hp?5 valve head 11 comp itbs and still 165?a b16b makes 185?why

as saad already discussed this topic before with a sense making reply lets not look at that and start adding some fresh reasons i believe that the main reason is the 1.84:1 which adds the capability of b16b to revv as high as 8800rpm and make power at 8200 we all know that in any NA engine more rpm=more power apart from the light weight components used in the b16b itself that also adds to the power it makes stated by saad in the previous debate

[SpoonMotorSports]

Correct you are the power in an L6 comes in six pulses = spool faster

and L4's have 4 exhaust pluses per cycle ........but wait a minute here , we have an issue!

in a 4 CYL 2.0 the displacement in divided into four parts 1 CYL= 1/4th of 2000 cc (lets say for theoretical data that it is 2,000cc)

so 1 CYL= 500cc .....lets say after expansion 550cc{hypothetically}

and if we look at L6's 1/6th of 2000cc =333.33 cc

1 CYL = 333.33 after expansion 366cc
hmm four pulses of 550cc will spool a turbo alot earlier than 6 X 366cc

hmm but at the end of the cycle it all ends up and all the cylinders join the little 366cc of pulses in the merge collector area and forms into the 2000cc pulse.After all the turbo is attached to the ending of the exhaust manifold where all the respective cylinders merge together? dont you think

[saadzae92]

hmm but at the end of the cycle it all ends up and all the cylinders join the the little 366cc of pulses in the merge collector area and forms into the 2000cc pulse after all the turbo is attached to the ending of the exhaust manifold where all the respective cylinders merge together? dont you think

ummmm let me put it this way

a wood worker hits a nail with four strikes of 5.50 Newtons

and another worker hits a nail with six strikes of 3.66 Newtons

required force is 20.00 Newtons .........time of one hit is 1 second

which one will get the job done quickly?

thank you.

[ahmadbila]

very nice thread...i love to read and learn about engines in this much detail. few days ago a pw member sent me a link explaining wideband and narrow band tuning. it was a long article and i read it all but still couldnt really grasp the concept can anybody explain, in simpler and non-technical words??

[SpoonMotorSports]

very nice thread...i love to read and learn about engines in this much detail. few days ago a pw member sent me a link explaining wideband and narrow band tuning. it was a long article and i read it all but still couldnt really grasp the concept can anybody explain, in simpler and non-technical words??

As you already mentioned that you read the technical details i will try to explain in much simpler language

narrow band o2 sensor=it only records whether the air/fuel ratio is lean or rich,Lean=too much air and less fuel,rich=too much fuel and less air

wideband o2 sensor=the wideband not only shows us whether the air fuel mix is lean or rich but also shows us HOW rich or how lean is it

for example on your wideband 14.7:1 is the stoichiometric ratio mean with this proportion of air fuel mix i-e 14.7:1 the mixture completely burns leaving no residue behind if your car is running richer then it will show you 14.0:1,12.1:1 anything below 14.7 is rich and any proportion above 14.7:1 is lean the wideband show us how lean or rich it is

hope this clears it up [B][/B]

[ahmadbila]

thanks.. that certainly clears up some of the questions and give rise to a few others

what u explained wud be wide/narrow band sensors, what is wide/narrow band tuning? and what is the difference between the two and which one is done for what particular results?

[SpoonMotorSports]

thanks.. that certainly clears up some of the questions and give rise to a few others

what u explained wud be wide/narrow band sensors, what is wide/narrow band tuning? and what is the difference between the two and which one is done for what particular results?

as of what you know by now what wideband and narrow band 02 sensors are the tuning part is easy to understand hard to perform though
but anyways.nobody really uses narrowband to tune an engine people use wideband to tune them tuning via wideband is done when you change the characteristics of a certain engine for example adding nitrous/turbo going allmotor bigger cams head work itbs header exhaust higher compression pistons etc etc. after adding such stuff that change the characteristics of an engine you need to hoke up the wideband and adjust the fuel that is needed to the engine with the new mods remember

Lean=powerful but dangerous
rich=safe
wideband tuning is basically finding the right proportion of air fuel mixture for your specific engine! maximum power+engine safety=wideband

[ahmadbila]

thanks.. that certainly clears up some of the questions and give rise to a few others

what u explained wud be wide/narrow band sensors, what is wide/narrow band tuning? and what is the difference between the two and which one is done for what particular results?

as of what you know by now what wideband and narrow band 02 sensors are the tuning part is easy to understand hard to perform though
but anyways.nobody really uses narrowband to tune an engine people use wideband to tune them tuning via wideband is done when you change the characteristics of a certain engine for example adding nitrous/turbo going allmotor bigger cams head work itbs header exhaust higher compression pistons etc etc. after adding such stuff that change the characteristics of an engine you need to hoke up the wideband and adjust the fuel that is needed to the engine with the new mods remember

Lean=powerful but dangerous
rich=safe
wideband tuning is basically finding the right proportion of air fuel mixture for your specific engine! maximum power+engine safety=wideband

awesome!! got it now... thanks... will be back soon with new questions

[immad100]

well i throw another question
how can one know the safest boost limit while turbo charging a STOCK setup ofcourse with stock internals?

[ahmadbila]

well i throw another question
how can one know the safest boost limit while turbo charging a STOCK setup ofcourse with stock internals?

not an expert at all but i believe only experience can tell u that... offcourse if the internals are forged originally, u can push the bar higher up but if they are not, it might be advised to keep it below 10psi... just a random guess....

[datpak]

this psi thing has so many variables.it depends on so many things u cant make a hard and fast rule.bad tuning will blow ur engine without any boost.

[SpoonMotorSports]

Very true a good rule of thumb is half the power of the actual engine power but with boost and nitrous if you want safety then sorry we have to scare the pussycats away!

[wasay_ahmed]

well i throw another question
how can one know the safest boost limit while turbo charging a STOCK setup ofcourse with stock internals?

1.Compression of engine.Like if its 11+ better not turbocharge
2. Make of engine: Chinese engines like geely etc suzuki engines are not so good as well.

[wasay_ahmed]

Very nice informative thread
wht do u ppl say abt Powerenterprises Camcom Controllers and more specifically their Claim abt VVTI buging
What about using V AFC NEO using on these R18s L13 ivtecs.Which adjustments can we make wth them?

[qwertypoiu]

Bhai mari xli bhagti nai hai ma na jz ka kahnay par nay plug dalway hai aur hawa wala baksa nikal kar air intake lagia hai lakin koi fark nai para. Abb ma kia kar sakta hoe? Jab gear kheenchata hoe to gari baith jati hai.
Abb jz na mugay grounding aur bara cylincer ka mashwara dia hai. Us sa koi fark paray ga?

[wasay_ahmed]

Bhai mari xli bhagti nai hai ma na jz ka kahnay par nay plug dalway hai aur hawa wala baksa nikal kar air intake lagia hai lakin koi fark nai para. Abb ma kia kar sakta hoe? Jab gear kheenchata hoe to gari baith jati hai.
Abb jz na mugay grounding aur bara cylincer ka mashwara dia hai. Us sa koi fark paray ga?

Bhai app kisi aur hakeem se rojou farmai.Jahazi kei apne GLI hum sub ka leeya umda misaal hai lolz
Gear ziyada nah kheencha kijia bahir nikal ayega.

[SpoonMotorSports]

Very nice informative thread
wht do u ppl say abt Powerenterprises Camcom Controllers and more specifically their Claim abt VVTI buging
What about using V AFC NEO using on these R18s L13 ivtecs.Which adjustments can we make wth them?

the afc is a hack let that be safc1,2/vafc1,2/or the neo i didnt get the chance to actually datalog how the afc effects the ecu! people say that the afc add/subtract fuel which i dont believe becus the way it intersects itself between the ecu and the map sensor it just makes the ecu read from the wrong cells (rich/lean!?) but am not sure as there isnt any proof to that i still have to try it with rtp
i have used the vafc on both turbocharged(4efte) and NA(D15b) and according to me it works good for engine that are turbocharged(ecus which already have boost tables) but then again i dont like afcs and i dont want to use these things in future either becus they dont work that good and are crap......the money you spend on vafc you can always get a chipped ecu for half the price it just isnt worth the money you pay for

the vvti controllers - i dont have any experience with them